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EEVblog #553 - Mailbag
Posted by
EEVblog
on 02 Dec, 2013 13:31
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#1 Reply
Posted by
c4757p
on 02 Dec, 2013 13:41
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I'm probably just too much of a Tek fanboy, but damn, I want that cute little scope!
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#2 Reply
Posted by
dr.diesel
on 02 Dec, 2013 13:45
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Yeah, I have a raging erection, that Tek is awesome.
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#3 Reply
Posted by
ludzinc
on 02 Dec, 2013 14:41
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#4 Reply
Posted by
andtfoot
on 02 Dec, 2013 14:53
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Oooohh... do want one of those Lichtenberg thingies...
Edit: Which Mike kindly pointed out in
this thread that you can get
from here.
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#5 Reply
Posted by
Bored@Work
on 02 Dec, 2013 19:40
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Dave, a quick google on the Tek 213 revealed those can have some battery pack inside that used to leak. Maybe a quick check on yours is in order to limit any potential damage.
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#6 Reply
Posted by
N2IXK
on 02 Dec, 2013 19:56
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According to the TekWiki, the 213 portable scope was first introduced in 1975.
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/213Not a lot of people had digital multimeters back then, so this scope must have been a real piece of geek porn in its day...
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#7 Reply
Posted by
Nilres
on 02 Dec, 2013 20:28
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Isn't it still geek porn?
I love it!
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#8 Reply
Posted by
edpalmer42
on 02 Dec, 2013 21:01
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#9 Reply
Posted by
Jon86
on 02 Dec, 2013 21:05
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That joke about the queen made me laugh more than I should have
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#10 Reply
Posted by
joaoc
on 02 Dec, 2013 21:12
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This video shows how to do some pattern (in the end)
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This is Derek the one who sent you the scope, Im glad you liked it so much! When I got it on ebay the seller had it advertised as untested/non working, lucky for me when I got it everything worked like a charm. Some one has modified it slightly, the BNC connector on the back is not original to the design but seems to work. It didnt have the internal battery when I got it, but should be easy enough to replace if you wanted to use it cordless. Ive had the covers off it before so I know what it looks like inside, but it will be interesting to get a more technical look into its construction and operation.
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#12 Reply
Posted by
EEVblog
on 02 Dec, 2013 23:21
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This is Derek the one who sent you the scope
Thanks Derek, I think this teardown will be popular!
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#13 Reply
Posted by
Chipguy
on 02 Dec, 2013 23:23
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Told ya, no text
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#14 Reply
Posted by
dr.diesel
on 02 Dec, 2013 23:28
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Thanks Derek, I think this teardown will be popular!
Tomorrow is Tuesday
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#15 Reply
Posted by
synapsis
on 03 Dec, 2013 00:10
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That scope is awesome! It's the numerical readout that made me want one. Nixie tubes are *so* last year. (Decade?)
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#16 Reply
Posted by
N2IXK
on 03 Dec, 2013 01:52
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Would really like Dave to tear into the character generator circuitry. I assume it is some kind of vector system, not raster scanned. I agree that the CRT readout has it all over Nixies for sheer coolness. You can get CRT clocks as a kit nowadays:
http://oscilloclock.com/http://www.cathodecorner.com/sc200c.htmlFor anyone who is curious about the guts of the Tek 213 and can't wait for Dave's teardown, check this out:
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#17 Reply
Posted by
Len
on 03 Dec, 2013 02:37
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Would really like Dave to tear into the character generator circuitry. I assume it is some kind of vector system, not raster scanned.
The char gen is a single chip with 4-bit binary input and x, y, z vector output.
Schematics for the Tektronix 213 are here:
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/213
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#18 Reply
Posted by
fpliuzzi
on 03 Dec, 2013 03:10
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Dave,
If you're interested in some info about that unusual CRT contained in the Sinclair portable flat TV, the "AndyDaviesByTheSea" channel on youtube has a video where the gentleman describes the part he played in the development of that CRT.
The video is "I little bit about my work and Sinclair's flat TV". The Sinclair part starts at the 6:18 point.
Regards
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#19 Reply
Posted by
Zad
on 03 Dec, 2013 04:37
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Rick Dickinson, the fella who did the industrial design, has some photos of his work on the Sinclair TV on his Flickr page:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9574086@N02/sets/72157601627816164/I got a faulty one from a ham radio rally in the early 1990s and played around with it. The innards are pretty simple, with almost all the work done on one chip. The real interest is in the CRT design, as I'm sure people will see!
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#20 Reply
Posted by
rr100
on 03 Dec, 2013 05:52
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Yeah, I have a raging erection, that Tek is awesome.
If it was any longer I would've pissed myself. Awesome stuff!
1975 ... and true RMS to boot.
BRB, nature calls :-)
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#21 Reply
Posted by
amyk
on 03 Dec, 2013 12:05
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Would really like Dave to tear into the character generator circuitry. I assume it is some kind of vector system, not raster scanned. I agree that the CRT readout has it all over Nixies for sheer coolness. You can get CRT clocks as a kit nowadays:
http://oscilloclock.com/
http://www.cathodecorner.com/sc200c.html
This reminded me of an article I read quite some time ago about using completely analog means to generate characters for a vector CRT, if I remember correctly it was a PDF scan of something from the 50s-60s era. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
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#22 Reply
Posted by
tjw
on 03 Dec, 2013 12:17
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#23 Reply
Posted by
84GKSIG
on 03 Dec, 2013 12:53
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that little scope is just beautiful! i need one just like it! now!
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#24 Reply
Posted by
Balaur
on 03 Dec, 2013 15:10
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I hope Dave got some footage of the Sinclair TV working before the Analogue signal was switched off. Damned close call if he did, or didn't.
IIRC, the TV wasn't working, as the main IC was missing (as described in the message accompanying the TV).
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#25 Reply
Posted by
Stonent
on 03 Dec, 2013 20:55
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Yeah, I have a raging erection, that Tek is awesome.
If it was any longer I would've pissed myself. Awesome stuff!
1975 ... and true RMS to boot.
BRB, nature calls :-)
If symptoms appear for more than 4 hours call your doctor. I never understood those warnings. There's a lot less embarrassing ways to fix the problem than calling the doctor.
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#26 Reply
Posted by
Scott
on 03 Dec, 2013 23:18
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I've got four of the 200 series Tek scopes (214, 221 storage, and two 213 DMMs). I'll give away my secret: buy the ones on eBay that are not working at all. Usually the only thing wrong is the NiCd battery pack. If the battery pack is shot, the units often wont even run on AC power. Also, don't power the unit from AC power unless an battery pack is installed.
They are great little scopes. I was able to fit three scopes in my carry on luggage for Maker Faire last year!
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#27 Reply
Posted by
synapsis
on 03 Dec, 2013 23:31
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But now that Dave's had one on his channel, the price of the scopes will go through the roof!
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#28 Reply
Posted by
Stonent
on 04 Dec, 2013 03:34
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But now that Dave's had one on his channel, the price of the scopes will go through the roof!
Bonus if someone can figure out how to build a small scope board that connects to the back of a Sinclair TV!
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#29 Reply
Posted by
Zad
on 04 Dec, 2013 03:48
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You could probably run a (functional) Sinclair TV quite easily off the Raspberry Pi composite video output. Someone has to try that!
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#30 Reply
Posted by
amyk
on 04 Dec, 2013 06:31
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#31 Reply
Posted by
Stonent
on 04 Dec, 2013 07:21
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You could probably run a (functional) Sinclair TV quite easily off the Raspberry Pi composite video output. Someone has to try that!
You'd need an RF Modulator to convert the Comp to RF signals.
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#32 Reply
Posted by
Zad
on 05 Dec, 2013 03:29
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It depends on what goes on inside the chip. It has a composite video output pin that you should be able to tap onto to inject the Rasp Pi's analogue output. It may be that the chip samples the signal before this point to derive synch etc.
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#33 Reply
Posted by
N2IXK
on 05 Dec, 2013 03:50
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There is a block diagram of the ZN401E-2 chip here:
http://www.thevalvepage.com/tv/sinclair/ftv1/announc.htmLooks like the composite video could be injected right at the detector output, feeding both the CRT drive and the sync separator.
Does anyone have a copy of the actual Ferranti datasheet for the chip, or was this a proprietary design just for Sinclair? A really interesting design, using what appears to be a synchronous detector for the audio, and a PLL with dual DACs to produce the deflection waveforms.
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#34 Reply
Posted by
EEVblog
on 05 Dec, 2013 04:09
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There is a block diagram of the ZN401E-2 chip here:
http://www.thevalvepage.com/tv/sinclair/ftv1/announc.htm
Looks like the composite video could be injected right at the detector output, feeding both the CRT drive and the sync separator.
The chip is needed to generate all the timing though. Could be done manually, but messy.
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#35 Reply
Posted by
N2IXK
on 05 Dec, 2013 04:20
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Yes, without the magic chip, getting anything on the screen would be a LOT of work. Almost the entire signal processing system (video, audio, sync, and sweep generation) is contained in that little guy...
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#36 Reply
Posted by
JoannaK
on 05 Dec, 2013 04:36
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Sounds a lot like Fpga.project.. or Propeller.
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#37 Reply
Posted by
amyk
on 05 Dec, 2013 06:40
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#38 Reply
Posted by
SeanB
on 05 Dec, 2013 19:25
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n the late 1980's Maplin was selling off the boards as spare parts, possibly working but without the CRT, main chip and tuner. Probably ones that were DOA from the assembly line, where they would pull the most expensive items ( Tuner, CRT and the ASIC) from them to reuse. Probably the main reason the ASIC was in a socket is that they were heat sensitive, and were the single highest cost item in the set, probably costing more than the CRT.
I watched the Andie Davies memories about Sinclair, was very entertaining on how difficult those were to make.
As to the battery packs, they were a part of instant film packs, used to drive the camera motors, focussing system and the flash circuitry. Pretty impressive for the first mass produced pouch cells, they were nice to use in projects as discards from camera packs, still having a lot of power left in them after the 120 shots from the film unit. Only issue was connecting to the aluminium foil tabs as they were not solderable. I generally used a crocodile clip or paper clip as a contact with a piece of magic tape as a cover for the clip.
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I have that chip Dave if you want it. Don't know how long it would take to get there from the UK at this time of year but if you want to do a follow-up to that mailbag and get the thing working, I can stick it in the post for you.
Jon.
My experience with UK-> Aus any time of year is very quick. I'd say it would take a week, maybe 2, tops.
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#40 Reply
Posted by
beounet
on 13 Dec, 2013 21:07
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Hey Dave!! About the camera zoom issue, why don't you make a foot-pedal zoom switch?
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#41 Reply
Posted by
delmadord
on 27 Dec, 2013 20:36
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Just a quick GIF
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#42 Reply
Posted by
delmadord
on 08 Jan, 2014 10:36
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and just one more pic
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#43 Reply
Posted by
wilheldp
on 08 Jan, 2014 18:33
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As crazy/stupid as some people are with body modification, it would surprise me if a craze started where people were trying to get struck by lightning to get a "cool" Lichtenberg figure "tattoo."
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#44 Reply
Posted by
SeanB
on 08 Jan, 2014 18:56
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At least that would be self limiting, most do not survive the experience.
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#45 Reply
Posted by
IanJ
on 08 Jan, 2014 19:17
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As crazy/stupid as some people are with body modification, it would surprise me if a craze started where people were trying to get struck by lightning to get a "cool" Lichtenberg figure "tattoo."
If Doc Brown can do it (albeit unintentionally) then surely Dave will give it a go........
Ian.