How much it costs to fix depends exactly which part of the network needs adjusting. It's probably worse in the US style system of many small transformers. Do those even have selectable taps or does it have to be fixed at MV?
No, they typically don't have and don't need taps. Actually the small local transformers work very well where they are used, which is in the vast majority of rural and suburban areas in the US.
Out of interest, do you have any idea what the typical source impedance measured at their LV terminals is? The large transformers in European-style distribution are about 10 mOhm so impedance seen by the consumer is utterly dominated by the cabling and usually 100-300 mOhm
The charger for my Chevy Bolt takes about the same amount of power as my microwave. Think about Thanksgiving and all the concurrent ovens, stoves and microwaves. I don't think EVs are going to be a problem. The fast chargers may be an issue, I don't have one,
If you use a 110V charger sure, which is adequate for majority of people.
But in home level 2 "fast charger" will go up to 11kW: https://insideevs.com/news/488289/chevrolet-pays-installation-cost-home-charger-bolt/ and its not that expensive to install.
So maybe they should consider discouraging installing these instead of subsidizing them? Or at least build in some grid detection, etc. to charge at optimal times, or throttle charging.
If you use a 110V charger sure, which is adequate for majority of people.
But in home level 2 "fast charger" will go up to 11kW: https://insideevs.com/news/488289/chevrolet-pays-installation-cost-home-charger-bolt/ and its not that expensive to install.
So maybe they should consider discouraging installing these instead of subsidizing them? Or at least build in some grid detection, etc. to charge at optimal times, or throttle charging.
I don't think it will be a problem. I have a hot tub that draws 11kW if both pumps and the heat are on full power. My clothes dryer is 5.5kW, I used to have an electric stove in the kitchen that I think was around 10kW fully utilized but that's gas now. The only EV I have direct experience living with for a while was a Tesla and in that you could set the charge current to anything you want up to the max, so if it's on a shared circuit or grid capacity is limited you can back it off. It's only a matter of software to make it coordinate with grid capacity, which it could even guess indirectly by monitoring the incoming voltage.
If you use a 110V charger sure, which is adequate for majority of people.
But in home level 2 "fast charger" will go up to 11kW: https://insideevs.com/news/488289/chevrolet-pays-installation-cost-home-charger-bolt/ and its not that expensive to install.
So maybe they should consider discouraging installing these instead of subsidizing them? Or at least build in some grid detection, etc. to charge at optimal times, or throttle charging.
I don't think it will be a problem. I have a hot tub that draws 11kW if both pumps and the heat are on full power. My clothes dryer is 5.5kW, I used to have an electric stove in the kitchen that I think was around 10kW fully utilized but that's gas now. The only EV I have direct experience living with for a while was a Tesla and in that you could set the charge current to anything you want up to the max, so if it's on a shared circuit or grid capacity is limited you can back it off. It's only a matter of software to make it coordinate with grid capacity, which it could even guess indirectly by monitoring the incoming voltage.
Yeah. I think it's a bit of bullshit that the grid can't take it. We just need to figure who it is and why. My understanding about load capacities on the grid has more to do with anticipation rather than actual heavy load. It costs money and effort to fire up an additional power source. I think that's the problem. Follow the money.
If you use a 110V charger sure, which is adequate for majority of people.
But in home level 2 "fast charger" will go up to 11kW: https://insideevs.com/news/488289/chevrolet-pays-installation-cost-home-charger-bolt/ and its not that expensive to install.
So maybe they should consider discouraging installing these instead of subsidizing them? Or at least build in some grid detection, etc. to charge at optimal times, or throttle charging.
I don't think it will be a problem. I have a hot tub that draws 11kW if both pumps and the heat are on full power. My clothes dryer is 5.5kW, I used to have an electric stove in the kitchen that I think was around 10kW fully utilized but that's gas now. The only EV I have direct experience living with for a while was a Tesla and in that you could set the charge current to anything you want up to the max, so if it's on a shared circuit or grid capacity is limited you can back it off. It's only a matter of software to make it coordinate with grid capacity, which it could even guess indirectly by monitoring the incoming voltage.
Yeah. I think it's a bit of bullshit that the grid can't take it. We just need to figure who it is and why. My understanding about load capacities on the grid has more to do with anticipation rather than actual heavy load. It costs money and effort to fire up an additional power source. I think that's the problem. Follow the money.Its a well known problem, sure you as an individual would probably get away with moving more of your energy use to electricity and the grid would cope. Just like you don't feel like you're causing the traffic when you individually choose to drive. However, if all/most or even half of transport is suddenly moved from fossil fuels to electricity (as countries are planning to do in the next 20 years) its a very big problem:
http://www.withouthotair.com/c18/page_103.shtml
https://www.iea.org/sankey/#?c=United%20States&s=Final%20consumption
or Australia if you prefer:
https://www.iea.org/sankey/#?c=Australia&s=Final%20consumption
Road transport uses more energy (annually) than the current electrical supply. So where is the plan to more the double the electrical generation? Will people play nice with their vehicle charging and only do it during off peak when there is sufficient grid/network capacity? (no, they won't, just like most people drive in peak hour and create the traffic jams).
Its going to need some new market mechanisms to price the cost of delivering that energy more fairly (supply charges based on network connection size would be one place to start, as France etc already do). Market pricing of consumption would contribute, but that remains poorly connected between wholesale and retail.
If you use a 110V charger sure, which is adequate for majority of people.
But in home level 2 "fast charger" will go up to 11kW: https://insideevs.com/news/488289/chevrolet-pays-installation-cost-home-charger-bolt/ and its not that expensive to install.
So maybe they should consider discouraging installing these instead of subsidizing them? Or at least build in some grid detection, etc. to charge at optimal times, or throttle charging.
I don't think it will be a problem. I have a hot tub that draws 11kW if both pumps and the heat are on full power. My clothes dryer is 5.5kW, I used to have an electric stove in the kitchen that I think was around 10kW fully utilized but that's gas now. The only EV I have direct experience living with for a while was a Tesla and in that you could set the charge current to anything you want up to the max, so if it's on a shared circuit or grid capacity is limited you can back it off. It's only a matter of software to make it coordinate with grid capacity, which it could even guess indirectly by monitoring the incoming voltage.
Yeah. I think it's a bit of bullshit that the grid can't take it. We just need to figure who it is and why. My understanding about load capacities on the grid has more to do with anticipation rather than actual heavy load. It costs money and effort to fire up an additional power source. I think that's the problem. Follow the money.Its a well known problem, sure you as an individual would probably get away with moving more of your energy use to electricity and the grid would cope. Just like you don't feel like you're causing the traffic when you individually choose to drive. However, if all/most or even half of transport is suddenly moved from fossil fuels to electricity (as countries are planning to do in the next 20 years) its a very big problem:
http://www.withouthotair.com/c18/page_103.shtml
https://www.iea.org/sankey/#?c=United%20States&s=Final%20consumption
or Australia if you prefer:
https://www.iea.org/sankey/#?c=Australia&s=Final%20consumption
Road transport uses more energy (annually) than the current electrical supply. So where is the plan to more the double the electrical generation? Will people play nice with their vehicle charging and only do it during off peak when there is sufficient grid/network capacity? (no, they won't, just like most people drive in peak hour and create the traffic jams).
Its going to need some new market mechanisms to price the cost of delivering that energy more fairly (supply charges based on network connection size would be one place to start, as France etc already do). Market pricing of consumption would contribute, but that remains poorly connected between wholesale and retail.I know what you're saying. But supply of power is based on economics. The grid will cope just as soon as they figure out how to charge for it. Too many ppl factor the new EV car at current supply prices.
I think it's a bit of bullshit that the grid can't take it. We just need to figure who it is and why. My understanding about load capacities on the grid has more to do with anticipation rather than actual heavy load. It costs money and effort to fire up an additional power source. I think that's the problem. Follow the money.
But supply of power is based on economics.
The grids don't have spare generation capacity, or spare carrying capacity right now (recent outages/curtailments and inability to carry more distributed solar). Neither do the grids have trajectories or plans in place to grow at the rate required by electrification of transport by 2040/2050/etc.
The time from now until 2040/2050 is a long time to provide what ever cabling is needed to be just enough for normal supply. Nobody is going to do it on the off chance electric cars become a big hit.
Temporary, localized drop outs are the future because the ramp-up of loads have become orders of magnitude bigger than what we have gotten used to. I'm not disagreeing with you. But infrastructure occurs after development. Always will.
The time from now until 2040/2050 is a long time to provide what ever cabling is needed to be just enough for normal supply. Nobody is going to do it on the off chance electric cars become a big hit.
Temporary, localized drop outs are the future because the ramp-up of loads have become orders of magnitude bigger than what we have gotten used to. I'm not disagreeing with you. But infrastructure occurs after development. Always will.
Off chance? It has already happened, electric cars already are a huge hit. The area where I live is absolutely crawling with Teslas, the model 3 is one of the top selling cars in the world.
There''s this odd belief in the US that electric utilities exist to generate and distribute electricity. That may have been true at one point, but today their sole purpose is to generate money.
My electric bill is split between distribution and generation charges. The distribution charges are always greater than the actual cost of electricity. Despite having the highest (or maybe second highest) electricity rates in the country, we got nailed by a 5 day outage earlier this year from Summer storms. "We'll do better" they say, just let us raises our rates some more!
I get oodles of ads about "green investment" and "green power" by the utility. It's fine when they put up the farms and charge you a premium. For local solar arrays, they are phasing out net metering and will eventually be charging for every watt that goes across their meter. When I put up my array, I could only put up about half of my yearly demand, and I had to fight for that.
Will people play nice with their vehicle charging and only do it during off peak when there is sufficient grid/network capacity? (no, they won't, just like most people drive in peak hour and create the traffic jams).
The power supply seems to have coped. Unless it snows, of course.
For all the talk of moving to electric transport there hasn't been any planning on how the grid will support that and where the generation will come from. Technically possible, yes, but the free market won't deliver it as the current market they play in is largely for show/theatrical (monopoly distributors, cartel generators).
Incentives to try to match demand to supply would also help a lot with that. Going further, they should also have programs that give customers the option to be first in line to be disconnected and run on generators or other backup supplies, getting paid to do so.