As a professional engineer I would not accept a job in which a non professional engineer was the manager.
As a professional engineer I would not accept a job in which a non professional engineer was the manager.Why not ? What is the role of a manager ?
A manager is there to schedule the workload and to make sure the people doing the work have the resources to do so. If he understands what the people under his management do that is a bonus.
A good manager does not make technical decisions unless there is a duality.
Maybe you misunderstand what managing is. Understandable as too many managers are not really managers.
It strikes me this whole topic is about as useful as, in a different sphere, asking "would you employ someone without a medical degree?"
It is well known that newly-graduated doctors rely very heavily on nurses particularly in their early days, see very humourous first-hand examples at https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XxcjAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT201&lpg=PT201&dq=%22phil+hammond%22+nurse+needle+in+vein&source=bl&ots=L7wauIs7Pu&sig=UwGmQPdnqm9BPlX107WbVOT-osw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GhXZVMPYOqWi7AbSvoH4CA&redir_esc=y Yes, the nurses (illegally) inserted needles because the newly graduated doctor couldn't. The doctor made the tea and got the credit for inserting the needles
But does that mean that the doctor's qualification is a waste of time that should be ignored? Of course not, unless you are a nurse with an enormous chip on your shoulder.
Personally, if I have a kidney problem, I'm going to want it diagnosed and treated by a doctor, not a nurse.
If I need to have a barb removed from my finger, or have my leg plastered, I'd prefer a nurse to do it.
Any dissenting views?
Oh yes, nurses can probably run medical businesses as well as doctors, if not better. Shrug. Big deal. (Particularly since most doctors actively don't want to run businesses: they want to cure patients.) Doesn't change who I want to diagnose/treat my child's problems.
So the question is Someone, do you have a degree in electronics and have you been employed?
So the question is Someone, do you have a degree in electronics and have you been employed?I've a 4 year degree and have held professional status. These have opened doors to me and got jobs I would not have been able to get without them, in many large organisations HR pre filter the resumes and may insist on a degree even if its not actually needed for the role.
Free electron said:
"... Newly minted doctors go on training under experienced surgeons .."
One of the reasons why I would refuse to work in an environment where a non engineer was a manager.
I do not want to be a doctor managed by a matron.
Self styled techos are just that ... matrons.
This is not being disparaging , simply realistic. Years of experience in a specialised area do not make a techo an engineer.
To wit.. it takes four years of bloody hard work to acquire the qualification .. it takes 5 minutes to recognise the sharp end of a screw driver.
IF the company requires an engineer .. they will get an engineer.
If the company requires someone to repair boards they will get a technician.
And in this example, to even start to get the desirable experience requires a degree.
t a, doesn't indicate who is more likely to choose an appropriate control-system structure or RF modulation scheme.
Appropriateness for the job in hand is key. All else is indistinguishable from a chip on the shoulder.
-I'd want the guy with a lot of experience. -
Agreed.end of the day, you want the job done right, degree or not.
And in this example, to even start to get the desirable experience requires a degree. No degree = no experience.
Are you still going argue that a degree is irrelevant in this case?
Can you name me some specific examples where a degree is required in electronics to get experience?
The example under discussion was, in case you had inexplicably missed it, the medical profession.
From your example, can you explain why competence in running a business requires compentence in electronic engineering. To me there are orthogonal: as a EE (doctor) I want to build new things (repair people), not reconcile accounts and deal with corporation tax etc.
Free electron said:
"... Newly minted doctors go on training under experienced surgeons .."
One of the reasons why I would refuse to work in an environment where a non engineer was a manager.
I do not want to be a doctor managed by a matron.
Self styled techos are just that ... matrons.
This is not being disparaging , simply realistic. Years of experience in a specialised area do not make a techo an engineer.
To wit.. it takes four years of bloody hard work to acquire the qualification .. it takes 5 minutes to recognise the sharp end of a screw driver.
IF the company requires an engineer .. they will get an engineer.
If the company requires someone to repair boards they will get a technician.
Then there are drop-outs, such as Bill Gates and Steve Jobs ...
What you are saying is like i would not want to work for apple because tim cook is not an engineer. I would not want to work for microsoft because bill gates doesnt have a degree in writing code. Most companies are run by managers that have no clue what the footfolk does or how they do it.
t a, doesn't indicate who is more likely to choose an appropriate control-system structure or RF modulation scheme.
Appropriateness for the job in hand is key. All else is indistinguishable from a chip on the shoulder.Appropriateness is key. But , it is NOT an ee who designs a control system structure or picks a modulation scheme.
An ee designs the circuitry that implements it. Control systems are modeled by physicists and mathematicians. That is NOT something you leave to a an engineer with sub par math skills !
Properly trained Technicians have a solid grounding in Electronics Theory---not at the same level as a BE,but,not to be sneezed at,either.
In many cases this is obtained during a formal Training Scheme or an Apprenticeship of around 4-5 years,which includes both Theory & hands-on work.----considerably harder work than "recognising the sharp end of a screwdriver".
In the past,many organisations followed a similar regime with their Engineers,where the "Trainee Engineer"was employed in the field under the mentoring eye of a Senior Engineer.
The great thing about this is the EE student was paid a living wage,& didn't have to "starve in a garret".
He/She,also got a feel for real world problems & solutions.
We now live in a more mean-spirited world,& are the worse for it,as both Techs & EEs are left to their own resources.
Re: Employing a Tech to "repair boards"---this is more the job of a Process Worker.
Techs more usually,find & repair faults in complete assemblies,using their knowledge of Theory & their practical experience----Engineers, in my experience are not so good at fault finding,purely because they don't do as much of it.
t a, doesn't indicate who is more likely to choose an appropriate control-system structure or RF modulation scheme.
Appropriateness for the job in hand is key. All else is indistinguishable from a chip on the shoulder.Appropriateness is key. But , it is NOT an ee who designs a control system structure or picks a modulation scheme.
An ee designs the circuitry that implements it. Control systems are modeled by physicists and mathematicians. That is NOT something you leave to a an engineer with sub par math skills !
In that case not only am I an EE, I am also a mathematician and also a physicist.
I suggest you tell all the people in the University of Bristol's Faculty of Engineering that they aren't engineers. You will hear a large guffaw, followed by the sound of people ignoring you. (The same is true for other institutions, to my certain knowledge).
Summary: you really haven't got a clue about this topic; your gobsmackingly ridiculous statements clearly demonstrate that to anybody reading this thread.
t a, doesn't indicate who is more likely to choose an appropriate control-system structure or RF modulation scheme.
Appropriateness for the job in hand is key. All else is indistinguishable from a chip on the shoulder.Appropriateness is key. But , it is NOT an ee who designs a control system structure or picks a modulation scheme.
An ee designs the circuitry that implements it. Control systems are modeled by physicists and mathematicians. That is NOT something you leave to a an engineer with sub par math skills !
In that case not only am I an EE, I am also a mathematician and also a physicist.
I suggest you tell all the people in the University of Bristol's Faculty of Engineering that they aren't engineers. You will hear a large guffaw, followed by the sound of people ignoring you. (The same is true for other institutions, to my certain knowledge).
Summary: you really haven't got a clue about this topic; your gobsmackingly ridiculous statements clearly demonstrate that to anybody reading this thread.
hold it. 'Department of engineering' . engineering of what ? There are lots of different fields and subfield in engineering. One of em might well be control systems.
My claim is designing control systems is outside the scope of EE ElectricalEngineers.
There are people much better suited for that kind of work.
An EE designs circuitry , there may be some , note the usage of the word SOME , control stuff involved . Everywhere i have worked we had people that were specialized in such things. Some of these people were mathematicians, some where physicists, some were EE's with an additional degree in applied mathematics. I have never seen a situation where a complex control system was designed from scratch by an EE.
Harddisks for example are complex mechatronic systems and have very complex control loops dealing with the mehchanical mass, magnetic fields and all the other stuff. That was all modeled by dedicated people that didn't know the difference between a mos and a bipolar transistor. they would set up the criteria for the system : we need this bandwidh, this impulse response , this such and so. now go design it. then the EE's kicked in making the active filters with programmable poles and gains. meanwhile the control people explained to the programmers how the software algorithms had to work and what timeslot they had for the code to run in.
you gave the example of that windmill vibration. i cannot believe such a problem would be tackled by an EE. you need people that have a notion of mechanics and aerodynamics and other stuff that impact a windmill. there may be EE's out there that have those skills because they did additional work post graduation. but a newly minted EE is not capable of doing that.
Appropriateness is key. But , it is NOT an ee who designs a control system structure or picks a modulation scheme.
An ee designs the circuitry that implements it. Control systems are modeled by physicists and mathematicians. That is NOT something you leave to a an engineer with sub par math skills !
you gave the example of that windmill vibration. i cannot believe such a problem would be tackled by an EE. you need people that have a notion of mechanics and aerodynamics and other stuff that impact a windmill. there may be EE's out there that have those skills because they did additional work post graduation. but a newly minted EE is not capable of doing that.
Appropriateness is key. But , it is NOT an ee who designs a control system structure or picks a modulation scheme.
An ee designs the circuitry that implements it. Control systems are modeled by physicists and mathematicians. That is NOT something you leave to a an engineer with sub par math skills !
hold it. 'Department of engineering' . engineering of what ? There are lots of different fields and subfield in engineering. One of em might well be control systems.
My claim is designing control systems is outside the scope of EE ElectricalEngineers.
There are people much better suited for that kind of work.
An EE designs circuitry , there may be some , note the usage of the word SOME , control stuff involved . Everywhere i have worked we had people that were specialized in such things. Some of these people were mathematicians, some where physicists, some were EE's with an additional degree in applied mathematics. I have never seen a situation where a complex control system was designed from scratch by an EE.
Harddisks for example are complex mechatronic systems and have very complex control loops dealing with the mehchanical mass, magnetic fields and all the other stuff. That was all modeled by dedicated people that didn't know the difference between a mos and a bipolar transistor. they would set up the criteria for the system : we need this bandwidh, this impulse response , this such and so. now go design it. then the EE's kicked in making the active filters with programmable poles and gains. meanwhile the control people explained to the programmers how the software algorithms had to work and what timeslot they had for the code to run in.
you gave the example of that windmill vibration. i cannot believe such a problem would be tackled by an EE. you need people that have a notion of mechanics and aerodynamics and other stuff that impact a windmill. there may be EE's out there that have those skills because they did additional work post graduation. but a newly minted EE is not capable of doing that.
An EE designs circuitry , there may be some , note the usage of the word SOME , control stuff involved . Everywhere i have worked we had people that were specialized in such things. Some of these people were mathematicians, some where physicists, some were EE's with an additional degree in applied mathematics. I have never seen a situation where a complex control system was designed from scratch by an EE.