I saw the same picture earlier today but that poster claimed that it was the last image the balloon captured while over SW Missouri!
close ups of the balloon just released by us intelligence
The risk is an escalation and china shoots down a US spy satellite when it's over china.
It's the relative speeds of balloon and plane that makes it tricky, plus you really don't want to accidentally fly through any of the debris after you shoot it, either with guns or misslies.
How hard can that be with modern tech? The F-22 is state of the art, surely it has all sorts of high tech targeting aids. I also would not expect there to be much debris from a balloon, they could have made a strafing pass from hundreds of feet above it. Even if the plane were to fly right through the balloon itself I'd be shocked if it were seriously damaged. It's a balloon, not a rigid airship.
They don't put cannons on modern jet fighters, as air war is fire and forget over ranges of 50 miles plus. Firing on a planet sized target point blank must have been somewhat outside of the curve for the onboard targetting system?
Being British - and knowing how the MoD would have freaked out at the expense of using an expensive missile on a 'chinese magic lantern' - I would suggest flying over the baloon at Mac 2 and using the sonic boom to tear the envelope. But that's not Top Gun. Or even Top Missile?
As for what the baloon was really doing, I await the Pentagoon's Instagram feed for forum analysis.
Are we having fun yet?
They will find nothing special, my bet
.. The "special box" (with SDR receivers, FPGAs and a satellite uplink/downlink board) has been blown up to small pieces by an RDX charge triggered on by a mechanical altimeter when below 40k feet.. The debris wind-blown over vast areas of Atlantic
It's funny that the tittle of this thread is a song by the German band Nena. Wasn't it the American NSA, with the help of the Danes, who tapped German Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone a decade ago? Plus they spied on other European leaders.
So, the USAF sent up two fighter planes, one shot a single heat-seeking missile at the balloon gas bag; it deflated and the payload crashed into the ocean, depth around 15 m, while local airports were on a temporary stop to avoid mishap.
Sounds like a reasonable workflow.
Since this happened in broad daylight near a popular tourist beach, there is lots of documentation about the encounter.
[edit: fix typo]
They don't put cannons on modern jet fighters, as air war is fire and forget over ranges of 50 miles plus. Firing on a planet sized target point blank must have been somewhat outside of the curve for the onboard targetting system?
Being British - and knowing how the MoD would have freaked out at the expense of using an expensive missile on a 'chinese magic lantern' - I would suggest flying over the baloon at Mac 2 and using the sonic boom to tear the envelope. But that's not Top Gun. Or even Top Missile?
As for what the baloon was really doing, I await the Pentagoon's Instagram feed for forum analysis.
Are we having fun yet?
Um, the F-22 certainly does have a gun, at least according to General Dynamics.
https://www.gd-ots.com/armaments/aircraft-guns-gun-systems/f22/#:~:text=The%20F%2D22A%2020mm%20Gun,high%20reliability%20at%20minimum%20weight.
But at say 60,000ft there is little atmospheric pressure and thus oxygen, so I wondered if the bullets actually can work including exceeding the aircraft's speed to launch forward.
Looking at older
F-18 20mm Gatling gun system the plane is good to 37,000ft I believe but there's no specs on the ammunition's usable altitude.
That missle appeared to hit low causing damage to the equipment, kind of defeats the purpose of all the hoopla to gain intel about it.
But at say 60,000ft there is little atmospheric pressure and thus oxygen, so I wondered if the bullets actually can work including exceeding the aircraft's speed to launch forward.
Why would you think oxygen level/atmospheric pressure would have a negative impact on gun performance?
So, the USAF sent up two fighter planes, one shot a single heat-seeking missile at the balloon gas bag; it deflated and the payload crashed into the ocean, depth around 15 m, while local airports were on a temporary stop to avoid mishap.
Sounds like a reasonable workflow.
Nah, they should have sent up Lawnchair Larry with a shotgun...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawnchair_Larry_flight
Why would you think oxygen level/atmospheric pressure would have a negative impact on gun performance?
Combustion requires oxygen. I see KNO
3 generates its own oxygen, so guns can apparently operate in space. I thought bullets would have been sufficient.
This is a multi-million dollar fiasco, no need to save a few hundred grand I guess.
KNO3 hasn't been used in gunpowder for about 120 years now except in antiques, usually muzzle loaders. Modern propellants use smokeless gun powder, usually a combination of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine. But yes, modern gun powder does contain it's own nitrates and they supply all of the oxygen that's needed for the combustion. Any gun that uses a self contained cartridge would work perfectly well in a vacuum or in this case a partial vacuum. The only difference would be that the fired bullet would have less air resistance and would travel further and faster than it does at sea level.
Combustion requires oxygen. I see KNO3 generates its own oxygen, so guns can apparently operate in space. I thought bullets would have been sufficient.
This is a multi-million dollar fiasco, no need to save a few hundred grand I guess.
All explosives (of the sort that burn) carry their own oxidizer, otherwise they wouldn't explode, they would just burn. You make a low explosive by mixing something flammable such as charcoal or cotton with a strong oxidizer, that's how they all work. They burn very rapidly due to having their own oxygen mixed in and the expanding gas they generate ruptures the container which provides most of the explosive force. Then there are high explosives, things like nitroglycerin, TNT and RDX. They don't burn, they detonate, explosively decompose so rapidly that it produces a shockwave, no container is necessary. Both low and high explosives will function perfectly well in a vacuum, or even under water.
According to Wikipedia, the cost of an AIM-9 Sidewinder missile in 2019 was approximately $400k (USD).
Woohoo some facts are coming out
[spoiler: not really]Suspected Chinese spy balloon was 200ft tall - US defence official
Mike Mullen, former chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, rejected China's suggestion it might have blown off course, saying it was manoeuvrable because "it has propellers on it".
Full article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64548140
Balloon image may not be to scale - Unless the Chinese have invented extra light helium
On Monday, defence officials said debris had been found in an area that measures roughly 1,500m (4,920 ft) by 1,500m, although material is spread over a much larger area. Efforts to recover the balloon's equipment have been complicated by sea conditions and the possibility that the debris may include dangerous materials such as explosives or battery components.
Full article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64541671
It's funny that the tittle of this thread is a song by the German band Nena. Wasn't it the American NSA, with the help of the Danes, who tapped German Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone a decade ago? Plus they spied on other European leaders.
Not sure about the Danes, but IMHO the whole government had been bugged and I'm pretty sure they knew about it. Plus there is that huge US embassy with likely a $h1tload of hidden antennas right next to the government disctrict in Berlin. I wonder why.
Funny sidenote: Former chancellor Helmut Kohl knew decades ago, that all of his phones were tapped, so while on the road to some meeting, he directed his driver to drive some random route and stop at a random phone booth (literally everywhere to be found in the 80s) and then did his important calls. He even joked about it when meeting with communist politicians in his guest house. So they knew that he knew.
Balloon image may not be to scale - Unless the Chinese have invented extra light helium
Hydrogen is lighter than helium, and unlike helium it is renewable. Seems like a no-brainer for unmanned balloons where the flammability isn't an issue.
