Did you use extra flux? The solder wets and flows much better with it.
Also, if you can afford a cheap ebay stereo microscope you will be able to see the details much better.
As far as the microscope, are you talking about something like this - or a different model -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10X-20X-Excellent-Binocular-Stereo-Microscope-/141662194572?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fbb98b8c
From my experience a microscope make a big difference with soldering SMDs. You really see what's going on, not just during soldering but also inspecting after reflowing in a oven. There is at least one thread here about microscope selection.
Needle tips are hard to use for other than very fine work when there is little thermal mass.
Chisel or hoof styles seem to be the most popular.
For SMD passives, I just wet a pad with solder, hold the device in place and re-heat, then solder the other pad. Too much solder on the tip or added will leave balling like yours, a concave fillet is whats required.
If it looks ugly, get the sucker out and do a pad again.
I'd add you job looks nice and clean.
Do you have hot air?
Check this out. The guy puts putty under the SMD parts. You can skip ahead to about 4.5 m.
Check this out. The guy puts putty under the SMD parts. You can skip ahead to about 4.5 m.
I've found the skew or knife tips can be handy, they are long enough to heat both pads of a passive and allow it to be swept off or picked off with tweezers.
I'd add I still use a chisel tip for populating and the skew tip only for rework.
I finished the little board, and the LED lit up, so I guess it's a success.
Close ups?
It SHOULD now be marked by members.
Nice, if you look at the RH pad of R5, that's what you should be trying to achieve, a concave solder fillet that is strong and conserves solder.
We're all a little heavy handed on solder, but you just study some PCB's from new designs and see now little solder is actually required, do you see components fall off?
OK dumb question for the day. All the SMD resistor sizes have value markings printed on them, but the caps don't.
Why?
SMD ceramic capacitor codes: Surface mount capacitors are often very small and do not have the space for markings. During manufacture the capacitors are loaded into a pick and place machine and there is no need for any markings.
But I don't buy it, surely they could add markings but it probably increases cost and that's probably the real reason.
But I don't buy it, surely they could add markings but it probably increases cost and that's probably the real reason.
I don't buy it either. I just opened a strip of .1 uF caps for the next practice board, and they have just as much space on the top as an 0603 resistor.
But who is going to increase their cost and the manufacturers will purchase the cheaper non-marked ones anyways? It has no benefit for anyone unless it must meet a standard and then all the consumers will pay for markings that 99.999% of the consumers won't care at all.
For SMD you need one of the many tweezer type measuring tools, some just plug into your DMM, but if you want quality:
http://www.advancedevices.com/
I have an older set of these and I WOULDN'T be without them.
For SMD you need one of the many tweezer type measuring tools, some just plug into your DMM, but if you want quality:
http://www.advancedevices.com/
I have an older set of these and I WOULDN'T be without them.
For SMD you need one of the many tweezer type measuring tools, some just plug into your DMM, but if you want quality:
http://www.advancedevices.com/
I have an older set of these and I WOULDN'T be without them.
Ouch those are 'spensive!
I could go for some that plug into my bench meter though.
Hmm, would this do?
Of course there are the 1st I found, there might be other ones cheaper or better
Hmm, would this do?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Testing-Tweezers-Probe-Leads-For-Multimeter-Tester-SMD-Probe-/271592723134
Of course there are the 1st I found, there might be other ones cheaper or better
I hope so because I just ordered a pair like that not 30 minutes ago!
I hope so because I just ordered a pair like that not 30 minutes ago!
I had better results with the Mastech ms8910 ($18.05 on amazon) than this one. The tips of this one are very poor.
YMMV
I hope so because I just ordered a pair like that not 30 minutes ago!
I had better results with the Mastech ms8910 ($18.05 on amazon) than this one. The tips of this one are very poor.
YMMV
So with a Mastech Ms8910 and eliocor's Lindstrom SM-108 tweezer (plus a soldering iron and solder) you could be soldering SMDs? Or are there some other tools generally needed?
If I understand it correctly to work with SMD you'd need
1) Properly fabricated PCBs so forget about making at home
2) Very very clean environment and pure white in colour so you can spot them little pieces
3) hot air machine and good quality soldering iron with special tip (shovel shaped)
4) PCB holder
5) Stereo microscope with long stem or head goggles
6) Flux and solder and braid something or other
Have I missed anything?
If I understand it correctly to work with SMD you'd need
1) Properly fabricated PCBs so forget about making at home
2) Very very clean environment and pure white in colour so you can spot them little pieces
3) hot air machine and good quality soldering iron with special tip (shovel shaped)
4) PCB holder
5) Stereo microscope with long stem or head goggles
6) Flux and solder and braid something or other
Have I missed anything?
If I understand it correctly to work with SMD you'd need
can you please suggest the appropriate flux?
Always done mine with home etched PCB's. No masks. Layouts and pads are important as to not cramp things for hand population.
Always done mine with home etched PCB's. No masks. Layouts and pads are important as to not cramp things for hand population.
Don't you need to tin the pads and then mask them to prevent bridging?
Gentle baking required? Add chocolate icing when cool.
Static?
Rosin on tweezers.
If I understand it correctly to work with SMD you'd need
1) Properly fabricated PCBs so forget about making at home
2) Very very clean environment and pure white in colour so you can spot them little pieces
3) hot air machine and good quality soldering iron with special tip (shovel shaped)
4) PCB holder
5) Stereo microscope with long stem or head goggles
6) Flux and solder and braid something or other
Have I missed anything?
Gotta have some good tweezers to handle the parts too.
Say I have a home made PCB I have just etched. Do I apply the rosin "http://uk.farnell.com/multicore-loctite/pc21a/flux-pc21a-5l/dp/1115472" over the whole PCB and wait 10 mins to dry? Or do I only apply it as I go along?
Currently I have been using SK10 on my PCBs. I let them dry overnight, http://www.rapidonline.com/tools-equipment/kontakt-chemie-flux-sk10-spray-200ml-87-0715 - is this more or less the same?
Given what I'm seeing for UK prices though, Swiss can be had for ~10GBP or less (8.66GBP for each pair linked) at Farnell under their Duratool brand (5-SA & 7-SA). BTW, these particular Duratool pairs are rebranded Ideal-Tek, which is as good as it gets IME (example of their 5-SA). Same exact pair, but at more than 2x the cost. BTW, Ideal-Tek ODM's the tweezers for Lindstrom and Belzer for example.
Sorting through all of the Duratool tweezers (P/N's that start with D00* = Swiss made), they have a DURATOOL D00349 TWEEZER SET, SA, 5PCS kit for 35.57GBP. So that makes these Duratool pairs one hell of a deal right now.
Very nice find.
One thing that is often worth checking with kit from Farnell is whether their sister company CPC have it cheaper.
This is the case with these tweezers. The 5-SA and 7-SA can be had for £6 each, and the 5-piece set is only £28.45.
As with the Farnell prices, these are all ex VAT.
CPC also have free postage on all orders at the moment.
I have a couple of the VETUS tweezers and I have been able to hold 0402 resistors to a practice board for soldering without any problem. I got them for less than $6 USD each off of the internet.
I worked on the tweezers some more with 600 grit sandpaper, and they are working a lot better. Must be flux wicking up onto the metal. Hard to believe it's that hard to remove. Somebody refresh my memory - what's supposed to be a good flux remover?
Tidy work is all part of a dancing act, will a few key things needed to do a good job.
CLEAN tip
Leaded solder
Tweezers
Magnification. Depends on how old your eyes are, dual lense heatset is all I need
Temp control.
Too finer tip can be a curse as it won't hold enough solder.
Needle tips are hard to use for other than very fine work when there is little thermal mass.
Chisel or hoof styles seem to be the most popular.
For SMD passives, I just wet a pad with solder, hold the device in place and re-heat, then solder the other pad. Too much solder on the tip or added will leave balling like yours, a concave fillet is whats required.
If it looks ugly, get the sucker out and do a pad again.
I'd add you job looks nice and clean.
Working on the 2nd board. The connections are OK but I still want to put too much solder on the tack pad. The second joint I usually do OK. It just looks so good when you are flowing solder it's hard to hold back.
Tidy work is all part of a dancing act, will a few key things needed to do a good job.
CLEAN tip
Leaded solder
Tweezers
Magnification. Depends on how old your eyes are, dual lense heatset is all I need
Temp control.
Too finer tip can be a curse as it won't hold enough solder.
Needle tips are hard to use for other than very fine work when there is little thermal mass.
Chisel or hoof styles seem to be the most popular.
For SMD passives, I just wet a pad with solder, hold the device in place and re-heat, then solder the other pad. Too much solder on the tip or added will leave balling like yours, a concave fillet is whats required.
If it looks ugly, get the sucker out and do a pad again.
I'd add you job looks nice and clean.
Okay I am dancing extra hard here:
* 0603 size is my standard go-to size
* Old through-hole era 35W iron, NO temperature control
* RoHS solder (tin-silver type)
* Almost no tolerance on board (was intended to reflow but stencil got too expensive)
* No magnification, bare eyes only (I do have 20/20 vision)
Tidy work is all part of a dancing act, will a few key things needed to do a good job.
CLEAN tip
Leaded solder
Tweezers
Magnification. Depends on how old your eyes are, dual lense heatset is all I need
Temp control.
Too finer tip can be a curse as it won't hold enough solder.
Needle tips are hard to use for other than very fine work when there is little thermal mass.
Chisel or hoof styles seem to be the most popular.
For SMD passives, I just wet a pad with solder, hold the device in place and re-heat, then solder the other pad. Too much solder on the tip or added will leave balling like yours, a concave fillet is whats required.
If it looks ugly, get the sucker out and do a pad again.
I'd add you job looks nice and clean.
Okay I am dancing extra hard here:
* 0603 size is my standard go-to size
* Old through-hole era 35W iron, NO temperature control
* RoHS solder (tin-silver type)
* Almost no tolerance on board (was intended to reflow but stencil got too expensive)
* No magnification, bare eyes only (I do have 20/20 vision)IMO doable but without temp control the flux will be baked off too quickly, see if you can get a light dimmer and put it in series with your iron to tame the heat.
For inspection, you should have a headset at least, without it you can't see the inperfections or tiny whisker like bridges no matter how good your eyesight is. High density PCB's more so.
That looks like a fun build for practice. At $5.25 USD a bargain even. No 0402 soldering though. I am ordering one.
I had better results with the Mastech ms8910 ($18.05 on amazon) than this one. The tips of this one are very poor.
YMMV
Finished the second board. It simply flashes 10 LEDs in sequence using a 555 timer and a CD4017 decade counter. The hardest part was the tiny 0603 resistor packs with 4 10k resistors in each one. They are all just wired in series for a total of 200k, but when I tested the series total I got some reading in the 4 Megohm range. The second row had a bad connection to a pad, after touching them up it fixed it. Also had solder bridges on these when installing. Tough and tiny little buggers.
So that's about 10 days for delivery of a PC board with about 100 components from China for $4.25 plus $1.00 shipping and a free shipment of 10 breadboard jumper cables within the first 8 days just to maintain customer satisfaction.
Amazing customer service!
Wow - that's a great outcome.
I just ordered a pair of Mastech SMD RC tweezers. The other piece of junk I got that uses an external DMM wasn't worth spit.
1) Does anyone know if there is a "gullwing" tip for a Weller WESD51 soldering iron? If not, what would be the next best Weller (WESD51 compatible) tip for SMD drag soldering?
2) I've been using Kester 48 lead-free RA solder .031" and it works pretty well but I'd like to try the same or something similar in .020"; Kester makes this in a 1lb reel but I'd like to try it in a smaller package first - anyone know of such a product (Lead Free RA .020 in a package one ounce or less)? From Kester would be great but I'm open to other recommended brands.
1) Does anyone know if there is a "gullwing" tip for a Weller WESD51 soldering iron? If not, what would be the next best Weller (WESD51 compatible) tip for SMD drag soldering?Doesn't appear they make a dedicated tip (gull wing, spoon, ...), but you can use others.
Chisels, hoof types, and knife shapes will all work (just need to develop your technique). Hoof would probably be easiest (they're calling them single flat, such as the ETDD). Between a chisel or knife, the knife should be a little easier IMHO.
Photo of an ETDD (largest hoof offered):2) I've been using Kester 48 lead-free RA solder .031" and it works pretty well but I'd like to try the same or something similar in .020"; Kester makes this in a 1lb reel but I'd like to try it in a smaller package first - anyone know of such a product (Lead Free RA .020 in a package one ounce or less)? From Kester would be great but I'm open to other recommended brands.If you're set on Kester 48 broken down into smaller packages, it looks like you'll have to resort to eBay (15ft. of Kester 48, 66 core, SAC305 alloy).
If you can be more flexible on flux, then this might be of interest 2 oz. SAC305, no-clean from SRA.
But why not use lead based solder instead? It's a lot easier to work with, and it solves tin whiskers (one less thing to chase down ).
Just curious, how many feet do you think might come on the standard 1 lb roll (vs. the 15' which is A-OK/perfect for a trial)?
Finished the second board. It simply flashes 10 LEDs in sequence using a 555 timer and a CD4017 decade counter. The hardest part was the tiny 0603 resistor packs with 4 10k resistors in each one. They are all just wired in series for a total of 200k, but when I tested the series total I got some reading in the 4 Megohm range. The second row had a bad connection to a pad, after touching them up it fixed it. Also had solder bridges on these when installing. Tough and tiny little buggers.
My board arrived today. Very excited . Unfortunately, I have a job related repair on my bench that comes first Worst yet, it requires a systemboard that I have to get shipped to me because they are too expensive for us to each stock one.
Got the Mastech MS8910 yesterday. I really like it - much better than those cheap DMM add-on probes. The sharp tips really make a difference. Not a bad little tester all in all.
Update on my board. Of course the damn thing doesn't work. I did a little troubleshooting yesterday and narrowed the problem down to the resistor packs. I will have to rework them and see what happens. Maybe tomorrow-too brain fried right now to do more than read posts.
Got the Mastech MS8910 yesterday. I really like it - much better than those cheap DMM add-on probes. The sharp tips really make a difference. Not a bad little tester all in all.
Update on my board. Of course the damn thing doesn't work. I did a little troubleshooting yesterday and narrowed the problem down to the resistor packs. I will have to rework them and see what happens. Maybe tomorrow-too brain fried right now to do more than read posts.
Yea those are tiny and I had a hard time with 'em too. Take a break and come back to it tomorrow.
I got one a good while ago, I was a little disapointed with it compared to the Advanced Devies unit.
Gave it to my best customer as a thank you.
Xrunner, what did you use to solder the packs? I used my Hakko 936 with a conical SMD tip and .031" 63/37 Kester 44. Even with the new and improved glasses and a headband magnifier, it was very hard to see what I was doing. Those leads are really close together and I'm not getting any younger.
I got one a good while ago, I was a little disapointed with it compared to the Advanced Devies unit.
Gave it to my best customer as a thank you.
I got one a good while ago, I was a little disapointed with it compared to the Advanced Devies unit.
Gave it to my best customer as a thank you.
What did you like in the advance devices? What model?
I used my Hakko 936 with a conical SMD tip and .031" 63/37 Kester 44. Even with the new and improved glasses and a headband magnifier, it was very hard to see what I was doing. Those leads are really close together and I'm not getting any younger.
What did you like in the advance devices? What model?
Xrunner, I am using the same tip, so my choice is good. Miguelvp, I use MG Chemicals liquid flux through a syringe for control. I do use a PanaVice to secure the board. I go flux and tin 1 pad, solder that, solder the opposite pin and then go back and solder the rest. I also use ipa for cleaning. Maybe, X's board holder is more suitable as it sits flat on the work surface. I will have to look into that. I know there was a post on a new one on the market, I will have to go find it.
Savril, I am learning smd in the Panavise is not the best. All my soldering has been through hole. I am probably going to treat myself to a stickvise as it seems that whenever I try to solder anything not being held in place, it moves on me, even on my rubber ESD mat. I will keep playing with cheap smd kits until I am comfortable. I am hopefully going to upgrade my soldering iron this year to something like the Thermaltronics TMT-2000 to get a shorter tip to hand distance for better control. I love my Hakko 936, but it feels a bit awkward and bulky to solder small smd components.
@Canobi: That "hot plate reflow" thingy looks extremely interesting !. Could you please post a couple more photos of it ? And some details ? Thanks a lot !