The Siglent 2000X+ scope is an incredible scope for its price range. But good as it is, there's no way it can match a Keysight 3000 series scope except perhaps for noise floor. This shouldn't be a surprise, seeing how the Keysight is nearly 4 times the price without serial decoding, and 5 times the price with it.
200X the memory.
Memory is not the problem.
Problem is that you have 4GS/s that is not 4GS anymore as soon as you use any timebase longer than 50us/div. And then drops rapidly. If you set timebase for 2ms/div (to look at somethin 20 ms long) it takes nosedive to 40MS/s.. At that timebase, if you have anything higher than 20 MHz in signal it will alias and show weird artefacts in signal that aren't there.
If you want to look at PSU startup, at say 10ms/div (for 100ms total) you will basically have 20MS/s sampling rate that will make it a 10 MHz oscilloscope without antialiasing filter on the input..
If you want to look at 10 MHz oscillator startup for first 200ms you literally cannot do that. See attachments..
That memory advantage combined with 500uV/div sensitivity and low noise (compared to 4 mV/div on 3000A) makes SDS2000X+ actually much more capable for slow, low level stuff.
Memory is not the problem.
Problem is that you have 4GS/s that is not 4GS anymore as soon as you use any timebase longer than 50us/div. And then drops rapidly. If you set timebase for 2ms/div (to look at somethin 20 ms long) it takes nosedive to 40MS/s.. At that timebase, if you have anything higher than 20 MHz in signal it will alias and show weird artefacts in signal that aren't there.Well, seeing how the actual sample rate ultimately determines the maximum frequency you can reconstruct anyway, wouldn't they use a low-pass filter with a variable upper frequency on the input in order to eliminate the aliasing you're talking about? I mean, this is an issue you'd have even on the SDS2000X series. Once you make the timebase long enough you can't maintain the native sample rate. The additional memory helps, of course, but doesn't eliminate the issue.
Memory is not the problem.
Problem is that you have 4GS/s that is not 4GS anymore as soon as you use any timebase longer than 50us/div. And then drops rapidly. If you set timebase for 2ms/div (to look at somethin 20 ms long) it takes nosedive to 40MS/s.. At that timebase, if you have anything higher than 20 MHz in signal it will alias and show weird artefacts in signal that aren't there.Well, seeing how the actual sample rate ultimately determines the maximum frequency you can reconstruct anyway, wouldn't they use a low-pass filter with a variable upper frequency on the input in order to eliminate the aliasing you're talking about? I mean, this is an issue you'd have even on the SDS2000X series. Once you make the timebase long enough you can't maintain the native sample rate. The additional memory helps, of course, but doesn't eliminate the issue.Some users who are more familiar with other brands of scopes fear aliasing as its pretty easy to produce. But... its very hard to get the Keysight/Agilent meagzoom scopes to show aliasing artefacts as their front end filtering and decimation "just work" (invisibly and without any controls, prioritising maximum sample rate possible at all times).
I mean, this is an issue you'd have even on the SDS2000X series. Once you make the timebase long enough you can't maintain the native sample rate. The additional memory helps, of course, but doesn't eliminate the issue.
If only it had a UI as responsive as the Keysight.
Realistically it’s a hobby scope, so the use cases are incredibly varied. I’ve been avoiding answering the question because there isn’t really a single use case. Here is a glance at my current and recently finished projects:
1. Design and build of a series of microphones for studio recording. I’d like a dso that preforms very well as a “crt emulator.”
2. Fixing a number of issues with some small MCU-driven autonomous vehicles (with hard realtime requirements) containing some buggy critical RFIC components. This also includes some protocol debugging, although here I care about the underlying signal since it seems some thresholds are not being met. For any LA issues, I would just use my Saleae.
3. Design and build of some measurement devices intended for use on the bottom of hulls of container ships.
I want something that’s fun and enjoyable to use, and which allows me to focus on my problem domain, not the scope.
A suggestion was made for the RTB2004, and if I could find a deal for the R2K-COM4 bundle (which is the whole bundle afaik), I would consider it. But ~$4.5k after tax is just too much.
The MSO3014A is appealing because I could ostensibly grow into it, should some project come up that demands its higher feature set. But if I’m being honest, I doubt I’ll ever really pay for the upgrade.
The DSO1204G is basically the minimum scope that suits my various hobby needs while also “feeing nice” in my opinion.
One thing that occurs to me is that for your $2800, you could buy the base Keysight DSOX1204G and the Siglent SDS2104X-Plus w/ logic probe. Then you'd have a 'nice' base scope for most of your general purpose applications and a 500MHz 200Mpt large-screen scope for special applications. This would give you an extended period of time to try things out--I find that it takes me months to really get used to a complex instrument and determine whether I like it or not. If you hate it, sell it and upgrade the Keysight.
One thing that occurs to me is that for your $2800, you could buy the base Keysight DSOX1204G and the Siglent SDS2104X-Plus w/ logic probe.
...
If you hate it, sell it and upgrade the Keysight.
Not a bad idea! However, I'm not sure that the resale value of the 2104X will hold up. Any chance you have some experience in this area and/or can comment on used 2104X prices? Otherwise, I'm just going to semi-trust ebay
One thing that occurs to me is that for your $2800, you could buy the base Keysight DSOX1204G and the Siglent SDS2104X-Plus w/ logic probe.
...
If you hate it, sell it and upgrade the Keysight.
Not a bad idea! However, I'm not sure that the resale value of the 2104X will hold up. Any chance you have some experience in this area and/or can comment on used 2104X prices? Otherwise, I'm just going to semi-trust ebay
What if Siglent decides to have a promotion and cut the price by 30%? No, the proper way is to get a demo unit to try before buying.
What if Siglent decides to have a promotion and cut the price by 30%? No, the proper way is to get a demo unit to try before buying.
There are always risks in life, but since they are already having a promotion right now, I think a sudden devaluation is unlikely. In fact, the opposite is much more likely, especially in today's very strange economic environment.
What if Siglent decides to have a promotion and cut the price by 30%? No, the proper way is to get a demo unit to try before buying.
There are always risks in life, but since they are already having a promotion right now, I think a sudden devaluation is unlikely. In fact, the opposite is much more likely, especially in today's very strange economic environment.
Who is going to provide a demo unit for an entry-level scope?
I've had no problem trying a GW Instek GDS2204E for over a month.
The Siglent 2000X+ scope is an incredible scope for its price range. But good as it is, there's no way it can match a Keysight 3000 series scope except perhaps for noise floor
One thing that occurs to me is that for your $2800, you could buy the base Keysight DSOX1204G and the Siglent SDS2104X-Plus w/ logic probe.
...
If you hate it, sell it and upgrade the Keysight.
Not a bad idea! However, I'm not sure that the resale value of the 2104X will hold up. Any chance you have some experience in this area and/or can comment on used 2104X prices? Otherwise, I'm just going to semi-trust ebay
I am dead serious. You'll want to keep both. You'll love Keysight if you want CRT emulation. But once you try SDS2104X+ and if you give it time to learn how to use it you will want that one too, for all the stuff Keysight simply doesn't have. Really, those two combined are very powerful combination..
I mean, this is an issue you'd have even on the SDS2000X series. Once you make the timebase long enough you can't maintain the native sample rate. The additional memory helps, of course, but doesn't eliminate the issue.
You never eliminate the issue, but making it 200X better goes a long way! Even the $500 SDS1104X-E can do up to a one million X zoom, something the Keysight models here won't despite their 'MegaZOOM' trademark.
Perhaps, but I don't understand making significant sacrifices in actual capability for that 'luxury feel' UX, especially for someone spending their own money.
My older Tek DSO has a UI that is several orders of magnitude less obtuse than the Siglent, but if I had to choose between them there would be no contest--I'll live with some amusing quirks to get the additional capability. I'm not dismissing the issue--setting up FFT on the Siglent is like a scope comedy skit next to the Tek. The Keysight (and Tek) models may have other advantages, but I don't know them well enough to comment.
The Siglent 2000X+ scope is an incredible scope for its price range. But good as it is, there's no way it can match a Keysight 3000 series scope except perhaps for noise floor
Examples ?
I've had no problem trying a GW Instek GDS2204E for over a month.
OK, perhaps things are different there. That doesn't help here--I don't know of any dealers that will provide demos for stuff like that and the only other alternative is to abuse seller return policies, such as Amazon's 30-day period for alleged defects. Otherwise the buyer is going to be paying for shipping, perhaps in both directions. And to add to that, it appears at first glance the the MSO/AWG promotion is only available directly from Siglent. Anyway, it wouldn't matter to me--I really prefer a 6-month or longer test period because I'm only an occasional user and it takes me that long to really get used to things and discover annoyances.
I have direct experience with the Siglent, but no direct experience with the Keysight.
I've had no problem trying a GW Instek GDS2204E for over a month.
OK, perhaps things are different there. That doesn't help here--I don't know of any dealers that will provide demos for stuff like that and the only other alternative is to abuse seller return policies, such as Amazon's 30-day period for alleged defects. Otherwise the buyer is going to be paying for shipping, perhaps in both directions. And to add to that, it appears at first glance the the MSO/AWG promotion is only available directly from Siglent. Anyway, it wouldn't matter to me--I really prefer a 6-month or longer test period because I'm only an occasional user and it takes me that long to really get used to things and discover annoyances.Ofcourse you need to come up with some kind of test plan you can execute in a small timespan. Just like you take a car for a test drive; take it onto the highway, take a few sharp turns, drive over bumps, see if it brakes properly, etc, etc. However that does not always rule out hidden problems which -unfortunately- Siglent and Rigol are prone to.
I've had no problem trying a GW Instek GDS2204E for over a month.
OK, perhaps things are different there. That doesn't help here--I don't know of any dealers that will provide demos for stuff like that and the only other alternative is to abuse seller return policies, such as Amazon's 30-day period for alleged defects. Otherwise the buyer is going to be paying for shipping, perhaps in both directions. And to add to that, it appears at first glance the the MSO/AWG promotion is only available directly from Siglent. Anyway, it wouldn't matter to me--I really prefer a 6-month or longer test period because I'm only an occasional user and it takes me that long to really get used to things and discover annoyances.Ofcourse you need to come up with some kind of test plan you can execute in a small timespan. Just like you take a car for a test drive; take it onto the highway, take a few sharp turns, drive over bumps, see if it brakes properly, etc, etc. However that does not always rule out hidden problems which -unfortunately- Siglent and Rigol are prone to.Poor analogy.
What asset can you leave with an equipment dealer so to take home an instrument and put it through its paces ?
Best you bring a DUT and test the instrument at their premises to decide if it meets your needs.
I have direct experience with the Siglent, but no direct experience with the Keysight.That clearly shows otherwise you wouldn't be so positive about it. Where it comes to the UI neither Keysight or Siglent are the best choices for non-touchscreen scopes.
I used to own an Agilent MSO7104A but once I got the GW Instek GDS2204E the MSO7104A got abandoned quickly by me. The GW Instek is so much easier & efficient to work with. I sold the MSO7104A a long time ago; the GDS2204E is still used regulary.
I have direct experience with the Siglent, but no direct experience with the Keysight.That clearly shows otherwise you wouldn't be so positive about it. Where it comes to the UI neither Keysight or Siglent are the best choices for non-touchscreen scopes.
What is, then, and why/how? Where the Keysight seems to do better than anything I've ever seen is with respect to UI responsiveness. Everything I've ever seen, including the limited amount of time I've played with a 2000 series scope (when I said I had no experience at all with "the Keysight", I was referring to the specific one here), is that the UI responsiveness is instantaneous, or so close to it that it doesn't matter. Maybe there are certain circumstances under which the UI on the Keysight will lag a bit but I've never seen or heard of it.