new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[Darkover]

I received my RTBK-COM4 package, and can confirm that it contains every possible option at the time of writing.  Weird that Newark is selling the -BNDL package with that pricing.

I would bet that it is now out of the brain of every developer at R&S because more than one year without a new firmware still
bugs that opens from time to time.
So don't expect to much.

Olaf

[pdenisowski]

I would bet that it is now out of the brain of every developer at R&S because more than one year without a new firmware still bugs that opens from time to time.

Many of the "entry-level" instruments we make (not just scopes, but spec ans, sig gens, etc.) eventually reach a state where they're "done" in terms of firmware-upgradable features, and new firmware releases primarily address bug fixes, etc.   

If you look at the RTM3000 and the RTA4000 (next levels up), they also are "mature" in terms of firmware.  The same is true of our FPC1000 series of entry-level spectrum analyzers and most of our handheld instruments as well.

If you look at higher-end instruments (like the RTP oscilloscope, the FSW spectrum analyzer, etc.), this is where you'll see significant new features added with each firmware release, in part because these platforms have the ability to support newer or advanced technologies without a hardware change.

To be honest, I'm not sure what we could add to the RTB2000 and still keep it as an "entry level" oscilloscope -- it has a lot of features you won't find in some other "entry level" scopes -- but we're always very happy to get feedback

[alonsojar]

I would bet that it is now out of the brain of every developer at R&S because more than one year without a new firmware still
bugs that opens from time to time.

Hi,
May I ask what are these bugs still unresolved? Listing them here woud help the R&S support to be focused and also users like me to be aware and get out of them if possible.
Last week for instance I noticed that Runt trigger was unavailable (and my siglent sds1202x-e, a real low budget entry level scope has it, but this looks reserved to RTM series ). That's not a bug, it is not in the datasheet, but a bit is disappointing indeed.

I otherwise agree the R&S engineer, the RTB2K is a mature product and we should not expect surprises regarding new features for the reasons he honestly explains (half by marketing reasons and half because hw could be quite squeezed).
My experience is that the Rtb2004 runs now smooth and solid and I don't have any complaint, but should be good to know if there are pending problems to be solved.

J.Alonso

[Darkover]

To be honest, I'm not sure what we could add to the RTB2000 and still keep it as an "entry level" oscilloscope -- it has a lot of features you won't find in some other "entry level" scopes -- but we're always very happy to get feedback

At first, I am working myself as a hardware developer at a huge measument company. So I have understanding that
things are at some time out of the brain of the developer!
I also think that a customer can not expect that a company will add new feature after they bought something! I only
believe this happens because your marketing guys knocking at the door of the developer
and starts cry: "Our expensive gem missed some things all the cheap brands have it now. ADD IT!"
BTW: I am glad that I am developing hardware and not software. 

However a new release of firmware that address a few bugs on your internal buglist, not new feature(!),
from time to time would be nice.
Oh and it would also be nice if the RTB had the same entry level function than your more entry
level scopes like the old HMO2022 that I am using now, because the RTB is send out to R&S.

For example:

A selectable software filter
https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_manuals/gb_1/h/hmo72x_202x/HMOcompact_DigitalOscilloscope_UserManual_en_03.pdf
Chapter 5.3.5 Filter
I missed that SOOOOOO much in my RTB. :'(

I also missed the switchable 50R inside of the RTB. I mean a 300Mhz scope with this price tag and no 50R? Did your
face not turn red when you meet sometimes people from Tek or Agi somewhere? 
I guess/hope it is only a flag in the PGA of the channel?

I also missed the component tester of the old HMOs from time to time. So I had to develope
it myself. If someone is interested:
https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/528893#new

There also a few thinks I talked with the salespeople of Hameg 10years ago. When I bought
a bunch of scopes for my company they tend to listen more carefully:

In the probe menue it is possible to select voltage or ampere, it would be nice to type
in any units. For example yesterday I used my scope to measure temperature (self made temperature probe) and it
would make the live easier if you could read "°C" on the screenshot. You only have to whip the software guys a little for it!

A longer horizontal timing than 50s. For example 60s or 3600s/div would be nice sometimes. 

An internal VT100 terminal. That would be very nice for software debuging. Poke your
probe at one pin of the cpu and read all error immediately. No fiddling with USB-RS232 and
terminal program at your computer.

Unfortunatly it did not appear in your scopes.

Olaf

[Darkover]

May I ask what are these bugs still unresolved?

Of course, but I have no answer, because it is not realy repeatable. From time to time
the RTB acting strange and it needs a reboot. I face it every 2-3month I would say.
I guess it happens more often when you are using the logic probes.
I also guess there is an internal memory or pointerproblem in the software
that sometimes destroy a memory location that is important.

However I can not repeat it or I would write it here or to R&S!

But perhaps I am wrong and it is a hardware problem. I will see when the RTB
is back from the treatment at R&S.

Let me complete that I am satisfied by 99% with the RTB and I would
probably buy it again! (the 1, but huge percent is the 50R of course)

Olaf

[EEVblog]

For the R&S fanboys, UNSW used the RTB2000 during the covid shutdown for remote experiments.

[kerouanton]

Nice tour, especially the way everything was designed to be operated remotely with motors to move pots and webcams to see the boards. Funny that when asked about all those Siglent, he doesn't really know what to answer and said that it's not him... Well technically the Siglent remote access is as good as the R&S one!

[nctnico]

An internal VT100 terminal. That would be very nice for software debuging. Poke your
probe at one pin of the cpu and read all error immediately. No fiddling with USB-RS232 and
terminal program at your computer.

My memory may be wrong but isn't there some packet decoding mode? If you set newline to end of packet, then the decoding can show lines of text instead of single characters. But I could be wrong and mixing things up.

[pdenisowski]

I wanted to use SCPI commands to detect when the High Resolution mode is really active. So when the display is white and not gray.

The three SCPI commands return the status for the HighRes mode:

:ACQ:HRES? -> AUTO
:ACQ:MEM? -> LIM
:CHAN:TYPE? -> HRES

But the values do not change, no matter if the display is white or gray. Maybe someone knows a way to determine the status?

The return of ':ACQ:MEM?' with 'LIM' for 'LIMited', is not documented. You can also send the value. Then the sample rate is reduced as with the HighRes mode, but without the HighRes mode being selected.

Peter

One of our developers suggested this:

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/webhelp/RTM3000_HTML_UserManual_en/Content/c0eb94198a1244d4.htm

CHANnel<m>:DATA:YRESolution?
CHANnel<m>:DATA:ENVelope:YRESolution?
CALCulate:MATH<m>:DATA:YRESolution?
MASK:DATA:YRESolution?
LOGic<p>:DATA:YRESolution?
DIGital<m>:DATA:YRESolution?
REFCurve<m>:DATA:YRESolution?
Return the vertical bit resolution of the indicated waveform.

The commands are relevant for data conversion if binary data format is defined              (FORM UINT, 8|16|32).

Suffix
<m>1..4
Return values
<Yresolution>
For default waveforms, the resolution is 8 bit.

If high resolution, average or filter are set for the waveform, the resolution is 16 bit.

[Darkover]

My RTB is back from Batronix/R&S. They found a defektive "complex board" and exchange it with 12month additional warranty.
It is also new calibrated with eight pages of measurement values of the calibration. Oh, and they cleaned it. 

But they also made a sticker on the front about the calibration. That looks a little bit ugly.

Good that it was under warranty.

Olaf

[skander36]

Yes they do very professional services. i was also impressed in my case.
Now you have a new one year calibrated scope.
Hope you will use sucessfully!

[uski]

To be honest, I'm not sure what we could add to the RTB2000 and still keep it as an "entry level" oscilloscope -- it has a lot of features you won't find in some other "entry level" scopes -- but we're always very happy to get feedback

At first, I am working myself as a hardware developer at a huge measument company. So I have understanding that
things are at some time out of the brain of the developer!

[...]

Olaf

That is a fantastic list of features that could be added and I stongly +1 this list. Particularly the integrated serial terminal, that would be huge. It doesn't have to be a full fledged terminal.

[skander36]

Hello @pdenisowski!
There is a chance to be introduced differentiate math function (DIFFF or d/dt) for RTB2K?
There are already many usefull math functions, such as recently introduced tracking of duty cycle for PWM signals, but for diff I can't find a function if I'm not missing something. It can be usefull to measure slew rate of an opamp.
Thank you!

[bayjelly]

Hello @pdenisowski!
There is a chance to be introduced differentiate math function (DIFFF or d/dt) for RTB2K?
There are already many usefull math functions, such as recently introduced tracking of duty cycle for PWM signals, but for diff I can't find a function if I'm not missing something. It can be usefull to measure slew rate of an opamp.
Thank you!

Exists already, see "Derivative":
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/webhelp/rtb_html_usermanual_en/Content/e5e51daffd6b42d3.htm

[skander36]

Exists already, see "Derivative":
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/webhelp/rtb_html_usermanual_en/Content/e5e51daffd6b42d3.htm

Thank you! Indeed diff calculates discrete time derivative of the signal.
I already try this before but without any adjustment. Now after I change the unit (from % to V/s), increase the magnitude and set the aquisition to average it starting to look as what I search for.

[2N3055]

Exists already, see "Derivative":
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/webhelp/rtb_html_usermanual_en/Content/e5e51daffd6b42d3.htm

Thank you! Indeed diff calculates discrete time derivative of the signal.
I already try this before but without any adjustment. Now after I change the unit (from % to V/s), increase the magnitude and set the aquisition to average it starting to look as what I search for.

Why don't you simply use slew rate measurement? It has it...

Slew rate+ Slewrt+ Steepness of the first rising edge, measured between the
lower and the upper reference levels.

Slewrt = ΔV / Δt

Slew rate- Slewrt- Steepness of the first falling edge, measured between the
upper and the lower reference levels.

Slewrt = ΔV / Δt

[skander36]

Why don't you simply use slew rate measurement? It has it...
...

Yep ... Looking to double check the results obtained with a Keysight 2K (using diff math function), I didn't think to check if the RTB has such direct measurement ...

[2N3055]

Why don't you simply use slew rate measurement? It has it...
...

Yep ... Looking to double check the results obtained with a Keysight 2K (using diff math function), I didn't think to check if the RTB has such direct measurement ...

Don't feel bad. That is why I keep repeating that it takes a lot of time to learn all the details with these new scopes.
There is simply so much stuff..

[ehoernchen]

Hi,

I would like to ask if anyone was successful to get a direct connection from pulseview (sigrok) to the rtb2000.
I could not get any connection over Ethernet it freezes over usb I get an error message. I identified the scope but I could not connect.

Best regards, Theo

[simone_b]

Hello KaneTW,

Have you found the service manual?
I still have the damaged RTB2004 and would like to attempt a repair if any documentation is available

I found the RTM3000 service manual, but not the RTB2000 (https://gloris.rohde-schwarz.com/file/RTM3000_RTA4000_ServiceManual_en_03.pdf). I sent a request to R&S.

[Robaroni]

What's with low frequency FFT's?

I disabled auto BW and tried to set the stop to 20kHz but it still gives me a "min 1.45MHz" stop.

What's up?

Thanks for the time and help,
Rob

[Robaroni]

That doesn't work either, I finally had to reload a setup to get my freq. range.
I can't believe I gave up my Tek scope for this, now the horizontal coarse/fine doesn't work. Two probes already died - I give up, now I have to buy a real scope.

[ehoernchen]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your insights, they help me a lot. Saves time to look in the setup. May be I give the source code more look.

I also go via import csv files but would be nice to get the direkt transfer running.

Best regards, Theo

[KaneTW]

Hello KaneTW,

Have you found the service manual?
I still have the damaged RTB2004 and would like to attempt a repair if any documentation is available

I found the RTM3000 service manual, but not the RTB2000 (https://gloris.rohde-schwarz.com/file/RTM3000_RTA4000_ServiceManual_en_03.pdf). I sent a request to R&S.

I don't think so. I'll check Gloris later again.

[pdenisowski]

Hello KaneTW,

Have you found the service manual?
I still have the damaged RTB2004 and would like to attempt a repair if any documentation is available

I don't think so. I'll check Gloris later again.

The service manual for RTB2000 is available via Gloris internally (to employees).  I looked at the manual and, frankly, the repair procedure for most faults is to replace the "complexboard" (main board) - there are no component-level test/troubleshooting tips and no board-level schematics in the RTB2000 service manual.