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I have been pointed over to this thread after venting some of my comments on the John Kenny interview thread as to why the decisions over the future of BV seems to be at odds with both the direction it was indicated that Keysight was going in as well as being against the general trend in the industry to provide base functionality S/W for the operation of modern instruments free of charge.
This approach has been seen as a way to leverage customers into buying into a specific manufacturers instruments (in the way I am sure BenchVue was originally conceived to do). But in my case the change of licencing in V2017 has had the opposite effect our decision has been to cancel all planed purchases of Keysight instruments in favour of alternatives from other manufacturers as there is now no advantage if consolidating on a specific manufacturer.
Unfortunately changes in how S/W tools are provided in the way the change in BV was implemented can have quite a destabilising effect on procurement decisions as it starts uncertainty as to what the next change may be and long term decisions can't be made without taking these into account, I suspect that there are others who have made the same decision as well. -
Yep, what ^^^ said. We haven't purchased any keysight gear since they started charging for BV.
Still using the old free version tho, but the naggy licence server popup everytime a USB drive is inserted is a problem. Wouldn't know of that still a factor with the latest version but it's REALLY annoying. -
I don't want to heap on with all the others, but yeah I'm also rather put off buying any new Keysight gear based on the policy change with BenchVue licensing. When it was free (but limited), it was still a significant factor in my purchase of a 34465A. Being only a small business I'm not a big spender on test gear, but that is why value for money (and saving time) is so important.
Still using the old free version tho, but the naggy licence server popup everytime a USB drive is inserted is a problem. Wouldn't know of that still a factor with the latest version but it's REALLY annoying.
See the instructions Sid provided in this earlier post to disable that wonderful feature!
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/t57461/msg1307157/#msg1307157
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I bought a 33120A new in maybe 1997 or so. That came with a version of BenchView on two floppies but it came with free upgrades for life if I remember correctly. I actually updated it in perhaps 2007 by getting in touch and there were no questions asked, I just got a new copy which I have now lost.
Am I remembering this correctly? Age does make one doubt such things particularly as the company has had so many names since then.
I am not even sure it was the 33120A I got it with but I don't remember using it with the 8591As I bought or the NVA. -
The real worry with this type of change is that as instruments have their own apps on them at what point will the change result in having to purchase updates for the S/W on the actual instrument.
Oh hang on they have already done this with some instruments, I have an E5515C that is unusable due to the lack of being able to get hold of the firmware without having to pay for a new updated license and due to the version I was eventually advised to use with the instrument, it is now essentially bricked as there was a problem with the upload of the firmware.
It is because of all this that I have become sceptical over "U turn" changes in the future particularly as most T&M purchases are long term investments. -
Hi sarel,
Thanks for sharing Stuart's link. Yes, we are aware of it and had the opportunity to further discuss BenchVue and the change with him.
SidIf you not aware of this guy: http://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/ Massive following...,
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Hi Astrodev,
Sorry about all the upgrade troubles. The E5515C is a little outside my expertise but if you could contact us at [email protected] we can direct you to the right folks at Keysight to help you ( Unless you've already gone that route )
SidThe real worry with this type of change is that as instruments have their own apps on them at what point will the change result in having to purchase updates for the S/W on the actual instrument.
Oh hang on they have already done this with some instruments, I have an E5515C that is unusable due to the lack of being able to get hold of the firmware without having to pay for a new updated license and due to the version I was eventually advised to use with the instrument, it is now essentially bricked as there was a problem with the upload of the firmware.
It is because of all this that I have become sceptical over "U turn" changes in the future particularly as most T&M purchases are long term investments. -
Hi Mjolinor,
Do you perhaps mean Waveform Builder PRO ( keysight.com/find/33503A ) ? BenchVue was only released a few years ago and hence unlikely what you previously used
... We also had older software called Intuilink which has now been discontinued.
Sid
I bought a 33120A new in maybe 1997 or so. That came with a version of BenchView on two floppies but it came with free upgrades for life if I remember correctly. I actually updated it in perhaps 2007 by getting in touch and there were no questions asked, I just got a new copy which I have now lost.
Am I remembering this correctly? Age does make one doubt such things particularly as the company has had so many names since then.
I am not even sure it was the 33120A I got it with but I don't remember using it with the 8591As I bought or the NVA. -
Hi Kean,
Thanks for voicing your concerns - I certainly understand your position. We are evaluating all the requests for some free software offering with instruments. I'm hoping we can change your view in the future.
SidI don't want to heap on with all the others, but yeah I'm also rather put off buying any new Keysight gear based on the policy change with BenchVue licensing. When it was free (but limited), it was still a significant factor in my purchase of a 34465A. Being only a small business I'm not a big spender on test gear, but that is why value for money (and saving time) is so important.
Still using the old free version tho, but the naggy licence server popup everytime a USB drive is inserted is a problem. Wouldn't know of that still a factor with the latest version but it's REALLY annoying.
See the instructions Sid provided in this earlier post to disable that wonderful feature!
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/t57461/msg1307157/#msg1307157 -
If you not aware of this guy: http://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/ Massive following...,
And after using old version which is free you will end up with your own scripts in Python to collect data or control instruments
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Yes, rolling your own with something like Python and PyVISA is a good way to go. I will likely do that in order to get unified control over my heterogeneous array of test equipment across Ethernet, USB, and GPIB interfaces.
However, for those who don't have the skills or can't spend the time to make their own solution, it would be beneficial to have BenchVue return to providing basic desktop functionality as an included feature of HP/Agilent/Keysight hardware. Competitive products include such software, with varying levels of functionality, at no additional cost. BenchVue should be there, too. Even at the level of free features in version 3.7 (where I'm at, currently), it would be compelling as a result of the integrated virtual bench.
Adding generic apps (e.g., generic DMM, generic power supply, generic AWG) that could be customized with SCPI commands, raw strings, or scripts (embed Python?) to support older HP and Agilent equipment as well as non-Keysight devices would enable BenchVue to be the command central on the bench to handle basic control, automation, and logging.I don't want to heap on with all the others, but yeah I'm also rather put off buying any new Keysight gear based on the policy change with BenchVue licensing.
It's good to post your feedback and experiences so that the BenchVue team sees how important these things are to the community.
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Yes, rolling your own with something like Python and PyVISA is a good way to go. I will likely do that in order to get unified control over my heterogeneous array of test equipment across Ethernet, USB, and GPIB interfaces.
However, for those who don't have the skills or can't spend the time to make their own solution, it would be beneficial to have BenchVue return to providing basic desktop functionality as an included feature of HP/Agilent/Keysight hardware. Competitive products include such software, with varying levels of functionality, at no additional cost. BenchVue should be there, too. Even at the level of free features in version 3.7 (where I'm at, currently), it would be compelling as a result of the integrated virtual bench.
If you do not have skills the Command expert is way to go. It is free and it contains set of commands for Agilent/Keysigh instruments. By using this app you will familiarize with set of commands which you can use in Python later.
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Just a general question for the community - What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?
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To balance the dislike of the loss of free features in the software, the step to a perpetual license option was an important improvement. Previously it was the limited free option or annual licensing, more for free is always welcome but when I buy software for production it needs to be perpetual licence and not something that could stop working when the vendor decides to change the version or stop supporting it.
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Just a general question for the community - What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?
Hello Sid
I am using the Keithley KickStart software, which is free in the basic version and works for me with the 2450/2460 SMU and 7510 DMM
Also free for me was:
- BK-Precision, DC Load software
- Maynuo, DC Load software
I think people here on eevblog have a valid point, complaining about the BV licensing.
For many years, Keysight has released lots of videos on YouTube, pointing out the free BenchVue software.
Before BenchVue, it was very complicated for most people to get any data or even a screenshot from an instrument.
LXI also did not work most of the time, until one spent hours in configuring JAVA (So stupid).
With BenchVue, this has become almost child's play and suddenly Keysight was the only major manufacturer
of test equipment, that offered a simple way to connect the PC with the lab gear.
By offering a free (but limited) version, you opened the door to many newcomers, to play with instruments and software.
This door was closed with the new licensing system.
I think, the people/companies who can afford a full license, will buy it anyways.
And those who start with a free license, will eventually or possibly also buy a full license.
But I have a hard time to believe, that you will loose any sales of a full license, because you are offering a free but limited license.
On the other hand, Keysight will most likely sell many more hardware instruments with a free BV software to get the user started and "hooked".
It might be time to re-think the BenchVue strategy.
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Before BenchVue, it was very complicated for most people to get any data or even a screenshot from an instrument.
LXI also did not work most of the time, until one spent hours in configuring JAVA (So stupid).
In case you are looking for an extremely lean, no-fancy-UI, and truly free linux tool to grab screenshots from your LXI instruments you can take a look at this little open source project that I'm currently polishing off: https://lxi-tools.github.io
lxi-tools include a tool that can discover LXI instruments, send SCPI commands, and easily grab screenshots from supported instruments.
No need to download hundreds or thousands of megabytes
P.s. The current list of supported instrument models for the screenshot feature is short but more will be added soon. I'm looking for testers and feedback.
P.p.s: Both lxi-tools and liblxi will be available in Fedora/RHEL, Debian/Ubuntu in the near future. -
Hi Sid,
There is sigrok. If Benchvue is payware, why dont you use the API from sigrok and support that effort. It is free and you cabn add generic and specific support. It is free.
Secondly sigrok already supports a number of older HP, Afilent and some newer equipment.Just a general question for the community - What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?
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I downloaded Benchvue freeversion as the links were given a page or so back. So I've got version 3.5 and the oscilloscope module installed.
I've connected to my DSOX3024T and the connection was just seamless. But, when I'm in instrument settings and trace preview is set then the cro is going through a Run/Stop cycles every second or so and the screen refreshes on the scope (the run/stop button of the cro flashes green/red as it cycles). Is this the normal mode of operation? If I set the mode to 'screen' under the instrument settings the run/stop cycling ceases.
Also, I was hoping that there would be some way to draw an arbitrary waveform for the waveform generator. Is this available in the newer paid for version?
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Sorry for some reason this post ended up in the wrong thread, it was supposed to be here.
As I mentioned in an earlier post the major problem with BenchVue at the moment is the U turn on licensing which has had the impact of pushing users away from it and indirectly away form Keysight particularly the basic bench instruments, as it is now more cost effective to use lower cost instruments from other manufacturers to offset the addition cost of using third party software that supports a larger manufacturer base.
At the present BenchVue was a good idea but because of the new licensing model it has mean't we have had to drop it and also move away from Keysight as the preferred choice unless there are compelling advantages from the instruments on offer.
I still think they were onto a winner as the BenchVue software did provide a solution to the working interface that non of the other manufacturers had addressed, up to the point they shot themselves in the foot by making it all licenced, particularly as we had to update the version on all our Win 10 PC's after a problem with the IO libraries due to a Windows update which then resulted in a total inability to use BenchVue any more.
Good one Keysight! -
I've connected to my DSOX3024T and the connection was just seamless. But, when I'm in instrument settings and trace preview is set then the cro is going through a Run/Stop cycles every second or so and the screen refreshes on the scope (the run/stop button of the cro flashes green/red as it cycles). Is this the normal mode of operation? If I set the mode to 'screen' under the instrument settings the run/stop cycling ceases.
Yes, this is normal and partially very annoying.
But may be there is no way around this.
I noticed that this seems to be slow on the 2000X or 3000X series scopes but much much faster on the 6000X series scopes. -
Hi sibeen,
The ARB is still not supported in the newer version of the scopes app. Regarding, the stop-start, yes this is an artifact of pulling data from the scope while the scope is displaying. We're in the middle of working around this but there are PROS and CONS to each approach. ( i.e. trading off performance when removing the start-stop cycles )
SidI've connected to my DSOX3024T and the connection was just seamless. But, when I'm in instrument settings and trace preview is set then the cro is going through a Run/Stop cycles every second or so and the screen refreshes on the scope (the run/stop button of the cro flashes green/red as it cycles). Is this the normal mode of operation? If I set the mode to 'screen' under the instrument settings the run/stop cycling ceases.
Also, I was hoping that there would be some way to draw an arbitrary waveform for the waveform generator. Is this available in the newer paid for version? -
Thanks for pointing me to it sarel. Added it to my list to investigate interfacing outside of BenchVue
SidHi Sid,
There is sigrok. If Benchvue is payware, why dont you use the API from sigrok and support that effort. It is free and you cabn add generic and specific support. It is free.
Secondly sigrok already supports a number of older HP, Afilent and some newer equipment.Just a general question for the community - What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?
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Hi Astrodev,
The current free version will still work on Win10. Are you having issues getting it to run ? contact me at [email protected] so we can take a look and get you back up and running
Sidwe had to update the version on all our Win 10 PC's after a problem with the IO libraries due to a Windows update which then resulted in a total inability to use BenchVue any more.
Good one Keysight! -
Hi Sid,
just installed the Dec "2018" version - it seems slightly better in license manager memory - but I'll do a compare later.
But..
I can't install the new Beta Serial Control Com port Module? Just tells me I need an internet connection to download. BV is connected and is not blocked by FW. (plus it "updated" itself - so there should be some kind of connection)
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Hi Sid,
You gone all quiet on us here, any news about the state of Benchvue? Any updates on what is changing, or was this all in vain?
RegardsHi Sid,
There is sigrok. If Benchvue is payware, why dont you use the API from sigrok and support that effort. It is free and you cabn add generic and specific support. It is free.
Secondly sigrok already supports a number of older HP, Afilent and some newer equipment.Just a general question for the community - What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?