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TDS 1000,2000,3000 BW Hack
Posted by
rfdes
on 15 Jul, 2017 17:55
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Gents -
I've seen this come up a number of times as to how to extend the BW of these scopes. Here is some information that I will share, although I have only tested several models and it did work on the two non lettered versions that I have.
I particular, I was able to update a TDS3034 to TDS3054 (non-lettered) and a TDS1001 to TDS1012
I will leave it up to the group to try this out on the 'B' and 'C' models to see if it works.
In regards to the TDS3000 models, the non-lettered and B models only will accommodate fw ver 3.41. V3.41 does not work. I had to downgrade to 3.39, perform the change and upgrade back to 3.41. This worked. The TDS3000 C models have not be tried.
If any of this information has already been posted, I am unaware. Please use at your own risk.
You will need to setup your TekVisa OpenChoice tools and run the Talk/Listener tool in order to force
SCPI commands to your unit, either through USB or GPIB.
Use *IDN? to check communications
For the TDS3000 series (downgraded to 3.39, then re-updated to 3.41)
Send the following:
PASSWORD PITBULL
MCONFIG TDS3054
You will not get any feedback from the unit. Reboot the unit and check to see if it worked. Again, with V3.39 it worked great.
For the TDS1000/2000
PASSWORD PITBULL
MODEL TDS20xx (with xx = model #)
I have not tested with 'B' and 'C' models so report back what you find out.
Good luck.
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#1 Reply
Posted by
Fraser
on 15 Jul, 2017 18:13
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Thanks, I will give it a go.
Fraser
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#2 Reply
Posted by
tautech
on 16 Jul, 2017 05:42
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#3 Reply
Posted by
aquaman8
on 17 Jul, 2017 14:31
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Great information and thanks for all the hard work!
Any idea where I can find previous versions of the firmware for the TDS3000 series? I know that version 3.39 is referred to, but are earlier versions available as well? If so, where?
Thanks,
Mitch
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#4 Reply
Posted by
Vtech
on 19 Jul, 2017 14:41
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#5 Reply
Posted by
Vtech
on 20 Jul, 2017 12:01
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I can confirm that this hack works on TDS3034B and TDS3032. "B" series has the same firmware as non lettered series. I've downgraded the firmware to 3.39, did the hack via RS232 and upgraded back to 3.41 (it's so hard to find 3.5" floppy disks and working FDD these days). Don't forget to do calibration after the whole procedure!
For TDS3032 I used "MCONFIG TDS3052" and for TDS3034B "MCONFIG TDS3054B". Upgrading the bandwidth to 500 MHz also upgrades sampling rate to 5 GSPS. This is really impressive and gives those old dogs new life.
This hack creates nice combo with application dongles hack (
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tektronix-tds3000-oscilloscope-modules-tds3uam/).
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#6 Reply
Posted by
Hydron
on 21 Jul, 2017 22:10
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Thanks for the great tips about upgrading the TDS3000B series!
I just tried it on a fw 3.27 TDS3014B and it now happily runs up to 500MHz. Didn't even need to use TekVISA, you can enter the commands via ethernet using the scope's own webpage (B series have built in ethernet).
I have just realised that there was a 600MHz version too - does anyone know if TDS3064B is an option as well? I can't try it myself until monday.
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#7 Reply
Posted by
rfdes
on 04 Aug, 2017 16:21
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I forgot to mention that this hack will also work for the TDS200 series units.
i.e. to upgrade a TDS 210 to TDS 220
PASSWORD PITBULL
MODEL TDS 220
I really don't know if people still use these scopes any longer.
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#8 Reply
Posted by
alm
on 04 Aug, 2017 16:37
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I am sure there will be some people still using TDS 200 scopes. If bandwidth and acquisition rate is sufficient, than it is still a decent analog scope replacement in my opinion. As long as you do not expect to be able to zoom in after acquisition, but neither will an analog scope
.
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#9 Reply
Posted by
Vtech
on 08 Aug, 2017 15:36
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I am happily reporting that option TDS3064B is working!
TDS3014B upgraded to 600MHz 5GS/s from 100MHz 1.25GS/s version.
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#10 Reply
Posted by
darkstar49
on 17 Aug, 2017 20:35
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Hello together,
did anyone check whether the sampling rate effectively increased
It's somehow hard to believe that Tek used 5GS/s ADC's in the 301x and 303x models...
I once had an MSO3014, which I upgraded to 500Mhz (with a key), but also played around with some system commands... could change model name & Co, but definitely without affecting it's "real" performance...
I've got a 3014 to check... but if the 305x's hardware is different, what is the 'real' effect of this mod ??
Cheers
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#11 Reply
Posted by
texaspyro
on 17 Aug, 2017 21:28
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It's somehow hard to believe that Tek used 5GS/s ADC's in the 301x and 303x models...
It's even harder to believe that they would spend the gazillion dollars it would have taken to fab separate custom DAC chips for the 3014/3024/3034/3054. I read somewhere that a guy compared the 3014 and 3054 DAC module part numbers and they were the same... and, of course, everything you read on the internet is true!
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#12 Reply
Posted by
darkstar49
on 17 Aug, 2017 21:36
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Mmmmh... sounds somehow promising... I'll make myself after the 3.39 fw, as I suspect that it's no longer on Tek's site (but I might be wrong...??)
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#13 Reply
Posted by
chronos42
on 18 Aug, 2017 06:24
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I have tried to upgrade a Tek TDS2014 to a TDS 2024 and used this commands, posted by rfdes
For the TDS1000/2000
PASSWORD PITBULL
MODEL TDS20xx (with xx = model #)
But I had no luck, scope is still TDS 2014.
Connection via GPIB was established and I have tried different software to send the commands.
It seems that the scope could read it, but it does nothing. But when I made an intentional error like PetBULL instead of PITBULL it gaves back an error.
Firmware is 4.12.
Is it not working with this firmware or did I overlooked something?
Any hints?
Thanks
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#14 Reply
Posted by
Old Don
on 18 Aug, 2017 11:55
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Years ago I purchased a small startup company's daisywheel printer that came with 4K or optional 16K buffers. I paid the extra couple $100's for the 16K version. It arrived as 4K. Called the company and got put through to engineering and when they heard the problem they told me to open the unit up and cut a trace and I'd have the 16K model.
Also, some years ago it was So other than maybe hand sorting to weed out slow boards after board assembly I can see Tek just using software patches to offer various models with the same hardware. ossible to purchase CPU's and add/remove resistors/jumpers on the top to change the operating frequency of a slow one to a more expensive faster one since that was the only difference in some cases. Early production run CPU's might have had problems at faster speeds, but once they got production up and running they all worked at the faster speeds. Now the makers make sure speeds are set inside the packaging and can't be fooled with like in the earlier days.
So while I don't have first hand info, but other than maybe hand sorting to weed out slow boards after board assembly, I can see Tek just using software patches to offer various models with the same hardware. You can add options to the TDS models with software patches so why not speeds?
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#15 Reply
Posted by
rfdes
on 19 Aug, 2017 01:53
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I forgot to mention that for the TDS1000/2000 and TDS200 instruments, the BW update will not be saved unless a full calibration adjustment is performed before the unit is shutdown.
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#16 Reply
Posted by
chronos42
on 19 Aug, 2017 05:25
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Hi rfdes,
so that means first enter the password, after that make a new adjustment with 200MHz upper bandwith. I will give it a try, many thanks you for the hint.
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#17 Reply
Posted by
snoopy
on 19 Aug, 2017 05:49
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Years ago I purchased a small startup company's daisywheel printer that came with 4K or optional 16K buffers. I paid the extra couple $100's for the 16K version. It arrived as 4K. Called the company and got put through to engineering and when they heard the problem they told me to open the unit up and cut a trace and I'd have the 16K model.
That sounds like the story of the dude who used to fix steam engines by bashing them with a hammer.
"That will be 50 dollars thankyou very much ! "
"What ! but you only hit it with a hammer ! "
"Yep 1 dollar to hit it and another 49 dollars for knowing where to hit it"
LOL
cheers
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#18 Reply
Posted by
sorenkir
on 19 Aug, 2017 17:33
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I forgot to mention that this hack will also work for the TDS200 series units.
i.e. to upgrade a TDS 210 to TDS 220
PASSWORD PITBULL
MODEL TDS 220
I really don't know if people still use these scopes any longer.
Hi,
I have tried this. OK, the scope reports it is a TDS220:
*IDN? --> TEKTRONIX,TDS 220,0,CF:91.1CT FV:v1.19 TDS2CM:CMV:v1.04
but the physical bandwidth is not changed. The -3dB point is still around 80MHz.
There must be something else to do to increase bandwidth...
Michel.
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#19 Reply
Posted by
carl_lab
on 20 Aug, 2017 08:37
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Can somebody else who made the hack, check real bandwidth, please?
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#20 Reply
Posted by
Hydron
on 20 Aug, 2017 15:34
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I don't have a "leveled sine wave generator" that goes high enough to check properly, but I did a quick test with the output of a spectrum analyser tracking generator and the TDS3014B is definitely running somewhere close to what I'd expect from a TDS3054B. Have not tried the TDS3064B code yet, but someone else said that it works too.
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#21 Reply
Posted by
texaspyro
on 20 Aug, 2017 16:01
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Does anybody know if a TDS30xx (non-B version) can be turned into a TDS3064?
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#22 Reply
Posted by
Vtech
on 25 Aug, 2017 11:08
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I turned TDS3032 into TDS3052. I think this is the max for non B version. There was never TDS3064 version sold by Tek.
For both versions I can confirm that the sampling rate increases to 5 GS/s. I've checked number of points per division on 1ns timescale with dots mode on. I haven't tested bandwidth properly but I did some measurements with fast signals and response on a TDS3014B unit hacked to TDS3064B is definitely well beyond 100MHz.
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#23 Reply
Posted by
texaspyro
on 25 Aug, 2017 11:46
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I hooked one of those cheap-ish 30 MHz .. 4.4 GHz touchscreen ADF4351 based sweepers to a TDS3034 -> TDS3054. It outputs a square-ish wave (but it's built on a two layer circuit board, so who knows what the waveform really looks like).
Anyway, amplitude and square-ish-ness start to drop off around 300 MHz. The amplitude is down 50% at 1 GHz. Trigger and sampling go to crap at around 1.1 GHz. I did not re-cal the scope after setting the upgrade.
Above 700 MHz there is some coupling into other channels. At 1 GHZ I have 500 mV P-P on the chan 1 input and disconnected chan 4 has a 10 mV P-P image of chan 1.
I need to break out a leveled sine wave generator to do a real test...
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#24 Reply
Posted by
Vtech
on 25 Aug, 2017 13:49
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I've just done some test on TDS3014B hacked to TDS3064B using RIGOL DSA815TG. Tracking gen in Rigol isn't perfectly flat but I've tried to calibrate it using DSA815 itself. I've used zero span option and compared output level at higher frequencies to output at 50MHz. I did separate comparison for each higher frequency switching between this frequency and 50MHz setting (If you let DSA815 run for a while the level drifts by as much as 1dB. It also changes when DSA is doing self calibration in the background from time to time but those drifts seem to be in SA part not in TG. TG is not flat but it is fairly stable in time). Tests were done on channel 1 of the scope with internal 50
termination, after calibration. Level was measured using cursors on the screen in peak-peak value.
Results are:
Freq: Scope level [mV p-p] unadjusted dB level Sig gen correction corrected dB level
50 MHz 652 0 0 0
100 MHz 622 -0.41 -0.3 -0.11
200 MHz 610 -0.58 -0.2 -0.38
300 MHz 550 -1.48 0.1 -1.58
400 MHz 516 -2.03 0 -2.03
500 MHz 462 -2.99 -0.75 -2.24
600 MHz 434 -3.54 -0.8 -2.74
700 MHz 386 -4.55 -0.7 -3.85
I'd guess that I'm no more than 1dB off on my measurements. 3dB point appears to be above 600MHz. Above 750MHz something strange began to happen with the trace. It looked like there was additional low frequency modulation (similar to aliasing but it couldn't be it). I'm not sure what was it.