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It has nothing to do with the feedback loop, as it's neither inside, nor parallel to the feedback loop.
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It has nothing to do with the feedback loop, as it's neither inside, nor parallel to the feedback loop.
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Oh, it most definitely is across the feedback loop. Read the circuit diagram very carefully, paying attention to all the common terminal symbols marked 'B'. You'll find that 'B' is connected to the output of the class B output stage (at the same place that all the other feedback connections start from at a star point), one end of that 250G resistor (via an insignificant 2.2k, where it also connects to that trim circuit) and the centre rail of the 5V bootstrap supply. The other end of the 250G resistor is attached to the amp's summing point.
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It has nothing to do with the feedback loop, as it's neither inside, nor parallel to the feedback loop.
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Oh, it most definitely is across the feedback loop. Read the circuit diagram very carefully, paying attention to all the common terminal symbols marked 'B'. You'll find that 'B' is connected to the output of the class B output stage (at the same place that all the other feedback connections start from at a star point), one end of that 250G resistor (via an insignificant 2.2k, where it also connects to that trim circuit) and the centre rail of the 5V bootstrap supply. The other end of the 250G resistor is attached to the amp's summing point.
Nope, in Ampere mode, Ground "B" is 'bootstrapped ground', not the signal output!
Signal output is created as explained on page 6-6.
It's really a bit tricky, to understand, how this is accomplished, as the whole driver circuit is intended also for volt and ohm circuit which may float +/- 210V. Carefully check the relays settings for the different modes.
In U, R modes, this amplifier output works differently, than in current and charge mode.
But we're discussing Ampere mode, anyhow.
The feedback loop, or in other words the shunt resistors, are R312, R322, R331, or R330, i.e. 100 Ohm, 100k, 100M or 100G. These create a voltage, proportional to the input current.
This amplifier output is at last created over RL, see figure 6-7 on page 6-6!
The Ground B you're referring to, is left to RL, and is signal output for Volt and Ohm mode only, like in figure 6-6. This bootstrap circuit accounts for 200TOhm input resistance in Volt mode, for all ranges up to 200V, which is very special.
R332, the 250G resistor, has absolutely nothing to do with with this current measurement / feedback loop.
You can check this, if you carefully read the bias calibration paragraph 7.4.9 on page 7-5, and following the schematic in parallel.
I have to admit, that this part of the circuit is not well explained, like the whole "Theory of Operation" chapter is very bad. No fun to read, in contrast to other (HP) manuals.
Frank
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree because I can see the diagram in front of me and I can quite clearly see the (unswitched) path from the output of the preamp's class B stage, back through that 250G resistor to the summing point. We can hope that it's perhaps a difference in terminology rather than understanding.
Talking of terminology, I don't think it's helpful to keep using the word 'ground' for several things that aren't - the "bootstrap ground" isn't a ground, it's just the common voltage of the preamp's bootstrapped +/- 5V supply, which is at the same potential as the preamp output. There's a time you can play fast and loose with the the terminology of grounds and common points, but that time is not in describing a circuit like this, with a handful of separate common points, none of which is ground in the proper sense.
Just to add to the confusion, the published circuit diagram has failed to label the JFET pair sources as powered by -5V(B), and the +/-5V labels on the offset trim circuit ought to say +/-5V(B). Given these, there are probably other errors lurking waiting to be discovered.
chips were not made in the phillipines but assembled ( injection molded ) in the phillipines
as for that fet int to99 : that's the protection diode pair (two matched npn's used as diode).
the actual fet sits elsewhere.
And yes, if you flurp that fet, it is game over. i got the last 3 remaining new ones (new old stock) in the world > 2N59-something and yes, they are hand made , on demand only.
Last time i needed those to repaired these machines they only had 5 in stock. i bough all 5 of em. I've use two so far. They are (were, they are gone off their website now) made by a small company called Linear systems ( not linear technology ! )
an other note : if you solder in that area : it needs to be cleaned with freon and you need to wait a few hours for the surface charge to dissipate .. BEFORE you attempt calibration.
don't touch anything with pokenfingersptizen! the grease on us bipedals is deadly for this things precision. And when it is running : don't touch it either. that top board makes +120 and -120 volts for the floating amp...
During calibration : the shield must be installed. There is a small 2 pin jumper for calibration : after flicking that jumper you need to wait a few hours before attempting anything.
Another nice note : current does not really flow through a sense resistor. this machine has no burden voltage ! the machine creates an output voltage , sent through a very high ohmic resistor , into it's output. all the amplifier does is keep the balance between in and out equal to zero. so for every electron sent in to this thing , the high voltage amplifier forces an electron out ( direction doesn't matter, hence the+120 to -120v drive capability.
Sorry, that's not a case of different views or terminologies.
It took me a while to fully understand the current vs. volt circuit, but in the end, I'm right.
Alex Nikitin just confirmed my understanding about this 250GOhm resistor..
chips were not made in the phillipines but assembled ( injection molded ) in the phillipines
And when I look at Alex's diagram I see exactly what I described. I see a 250G resistor, from the output of the preamp feeding back to the input of the preamp, in every circuit configuration. You appear to see something else. Those two views appear to me to be irreconcilable as I'm just describing what I see, literally the physical topology of the circuit.
That's why I suggested we agree to disagree, but you seem to be determined to insist that someone's 'right' and someone's 'wrong' and refuse to accept that we are probably both essentially saying the same thing but misunderstand what the other is saying. I really do see no point in me repeating variants of my description ad-infinitum in the hopes that you'll 'get' what I'm saying; that generates no enlightenment for anybody and I do not enjoy mud wrestling*. Hence this is my last word on the subject.
* Anybody who doesn't get this, just Google "engineer argue pig mud".
If anyone is looking for cheaper triax -> koax adaptor, it is Pomona 5300, mouser:
http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pomona-Electronics/5300/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv8kklI404QlX%2fxYBqdL8C9
If anyone is looking for cheaper triax -> koax adaptor, it is Pomona 5300, mouser:
http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Pomona-Electronics/5300/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv8kklI404QlX%2fxYBqdL8C9Be careful using adapters that short the inner and outer shield with equipment that uses a driven guard.