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EEVblog #1063 - Weller WE1010 vs Hakko FX888D Soldering Station
Posted by
EEVblog
on 09 Mar, 2018 20:37
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#1 Reply
Posted by
ulwur
on 09 Mar, 2018 21:48
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I realize it's to late, but Dave should have included the Xytronic LF-1600 station in the comparisation. I have been using Wellers professionaly for 20 years, and I'm impressed by the Xytronic I boght last year.
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#2 Reply
Posted by
ulwur
on 09 Mar, 2018 21:51
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One more thing. I haven't used a Hakko ever, but I've noticed that the temp display seems to freeze on the set temp. I find it strange that the display wont even change 1 least sigificant digit until Dave really pushed the tip in the wet sponge.
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#3 Reply
Posted by
Starlord
on 09 Mar, 2018 22:03
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#4 Reply
Posted by
lem_ix
on 09 Mar, 2018 22:18
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He probably meant to say 500 to 1000$. This Weller will probably do well in markets Hakko doesn't have a presence in.
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#5 Reply
Posted by
floobydust
on 09 Mar, 2018 22:23
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I find Weller tips beat Hakko for wetting and I get better results with Weller soldering irons. The Hakko tips, solder is always sticking and gobbing on the tip.
The FX-888D, who puts the on-off switch on the side? Drives me nuts. Hakko sponge FAIL. The brass wool is harsh on tips and leaves a mess.
Weller auto turn off is great, but they don't offer as good a selection of tips for SMT.
Both are very good soldering stations.
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#6 Reply
Posted by
qu1ck
on 09 Mar, 2018 23:17
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Dave you should really take a look at stations that are based on t12 tips. These t18 and 900 series tips just don't cut it in terms of temperature tracking because of big thermal resistance between the tip itself and temperature sensor. They require very precise machining to manufacture (biggest reason why chinese tips suck is because they have big gaps) and therefore will never be really cheap. T12 on the other hand has the temperature sensor integrated in the tip.
There is a big family of soldering stations that everyone and their mother is producing nowadays, based on stm32 micros. They have great UI, lots of features, including sleep/position sensor for the handle, various temperature profiles for various tips etc.
Maybe you can get one of those stm32 stations, alongside with bakon 950d and original hakko and review them?
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#7 Reply
Posted by
Bud
on 09 Mar, 2018 23:23
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I read somewhere you should press a button to wake the Weller up from sleep, they did not say which button.
What Dave called a dicky spring stand on Weller I call it a great feature. Because it is flexible i can throw the iron into it without taking my eyes off the board and it will go right into the holder. I do not have Hakko but have a JBC and with it i always have to look at the stand to put the iron in it since it is just a hole in the stand. With Weller spring stand i do not have to worry about the angle i grab the iron, the spring action compensates for it. With a solid stand i have to be careful not to snap the iron in half if i pull it in a wrong angle. Same about accidentally hitting the iron in the stand when doing something else, Weller just moves and springs back, Hakko iron may break.
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#8 Reply
Posted by
thm_w
on 10 Mar, 2018 00:20
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Dave you should really take a look at stations that are based on t12 tips. These t18 and 900 series tips just don't cut it in terms of temperature tracking because of big thermal resistance between the tip itself and temperature sensor. They require very precise machining to manufacture (biggest reason why chinese tips suck is because they have big gaps) and therefore will never be really cheap. T12 on the other hand has the temperature sensor integrated in the tip.
There is a big family of soldering stations that everyone and their mother is producing nowadays, based on stm32 micros. They have great UI, lots of features, including sleep/position sensor for the handle, various temperature profiles for various tips etc.
Yeah I recommended in the other thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/low-cost-iron-shootout/But I can see why he might be reluctant to recommend for newbies as they have questionable safety and QA, unless you know what you are doing.
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#9 Reply
Posted by
NiHaoMike
on 10 Mar, 2018 03:32
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My FX888 (the older analog version) came with a chisel tip. Maybe when they updated it to digital, they thought that conical tips would be more useful for small SMD work?
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#10 Reply
Posted by
Nusa
on 10 Mar, 2018 03:57
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What, no teardown? I thought taking it apart was rule #1 at EEVblog? oops, guess I missed those 2 minutes near the end! Never mind.
I would be particularly amused if the WE1010 has unused pads/inputs for setpoint selection that they deliberately didn't use to avoid competing with their better models. Even if it doesn't I can see this being a great hacking opportunity, since the display hardware is clearly present.
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#11 Reply
Posted by
1anX
on 10 Mar, 2018 05:06
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Thanks Dave, it reminded me that its time to upgrade from my Hakko 926. Its done great service over the years and been maintained with numerous new parts, but figured its time to get something new. The 926's paint has turned yellow and its got dings on its case, the solder pencil holder is starting to suffer from heat rot and is falling apart.
It still holds it temp using the new series Hakko tips and will be retired to backup status. Cant really bear to part with it and binning it would just be wasteful. So I just ordered a new Hakko 888D and hope it works as reliably as my old 926. Your test shows Hakko still provides all I need from a basic solder station.
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#12 Reply
Posted by
Monkeh
on 10 Mar, 2018 05:44
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Neither is particularly impressive, but they're both basically ancient designs. I'd say the Weller has better sensing but perhaps less mass.
Neither of them has any power delivery capability thanks to relying on mostly air as a thermal transfer medium - which is why you're always banging on about having to adjust temperature for different tasks. If you can deliver the power to maintain temperature you don't need to adjust it!
I'm hoping the ADS200 which is supposed to be coming your way (at, I admit, over twice the price - $250 class station..) will show both of those for the relics they are. An FX951 might be a good station to compare to - maybe a PS-900 or EB-2000 would be fun to throw in as well. Gets expensive buying all those, though.
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#13 Reply
Posted by
boffin
on 10 Mar, 2018 07:12
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I think these soldering iron shootouts are awesome, thanks for the video. I'm using a 40 yr old Weller (W-TCP-L) that's old enough to have a Bakelite case, and even with the fixed temp tips (I almost always use a 700F/370C) it works like a champ, and always has. Lot of tips handy, but like you, I like the chisel (extra tips are a good item to bring your digikey order up to the free shipping level)
I'd like to see your review of the TS100, a lot of people say a lot of nice things about them, and I was considering it as a second iron. However, having bought a couple of Yihua 947-III for a course I teach at work, I have to admit I'm impressed for the price ($12-20), and might just get one of those instead
(thread here for the 947-III)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/yihua-947-iii-soldering-iron-thoughts/
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#14 Reply
Posted by
nowlan
on 10 Mar, 2018 07:53
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Just watched the video. Surprised not using/needing the silicon pads to change tips like on the 951 hakkos. Beats using pliers yes?
There is a knock off FX-951 on BangGood for $115au. Would Dave stoop to asking BG for eval units?
The authentic 888 in 230v land are double the US, which has been hard to swallow for students/hobbyist.
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#15 Reply
Posted by
bitwelder
on 10 Mar, 2018 12:25
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Seeing the review of the UI on the Hakko reminded me of the (negative) comments from Louis Rossmann about the Hakko 861DW hot air station.
Are all Hakkos with digital interface so pathetically inefficient if not counterintuitive to operate?
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#16 Reply
Posted by
IanB
on 10 Mar, 2018 12:36
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The FX-888D, who puts the on-off switch on the side? Drives me nuts.
If I reach out my right hand the switch falls naturally under my finger. I find it the perfect place for a switch.
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#17 Reply
Posted by
Rolo
on 10 Mar, 2018 13:46
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The authentic 888 in 230v land are double the US, which has been hard to swallow for students/hobbyist.
I Live in The Netherlands, we have 230V AC Mains. The original Hakko FX888D costs € 133 here (= $163 US, $208 AU). Looks like the Weller WE1010 is going to costs € 170 over here.
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#18 Reply
Posted by
ebastler
on 10 Mar, 2018 13:47
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It seems that the Weller and the Hakko are really close in terms of performance. So, for me, a purchasing decision would be based on their ergonomics. Again, this looks like a tie as far as the handpieces are concerned -- but for the base stations, the Weller wins hands-down in my opinion.
What was Hakko thinking, trying to make do with only two buttons? The cost of an extra button would literally have been a cent or so! And seeing Dave holding the Hakko station in place with his other hand while he pushes those too-high-force buttons makes me cringe...
The larger display is another win for the Weller, for my taste. And, speaking of taste -- ah no, I won't go there...
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#19 Reply
Posted by
ciccio
on 10 Mar, 2018 14:04
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I bought a Weller WTCP in 1980, for the sum of 86.250 Italian Liras including VAT. Revalued to to-day, it's about 211.00 Euros.
The quality of the station was such that it is still working, after 47 years (I sold it some years ago to a friend).
In my lab I have now two Weller WS81, that currently sell for about 300 Euros + VAT (366.00 Euros net).
They solder as well as the WTCP and the extra power (80 vs 50 W) is sometimes necessary , but in the years I've seen that:
1) The WTCP had only one problem, ( the contacts of the magnetic switch inside the handle had to be cleaned some times) and it's tips lasted for a life,
2) The WS81 had a lot of problem with short life of tips, oxidation of the tip retaining tube, oxidation of the surface of the heater touching the tip (the spare heater costs about 70 Euros), unreliable temp setting.
Weller quality has declined but it's prices did not.
My local distributor does not have the new low cost Weller, but it's bigger brother, the WT1010 , sell for 380 Euros + VAT- Too expensive... (but it has the presets).
Now I 've built a T12 clone kit, that works like a charm: the handpiece is not as confortable as the Weller, but the thermal response is very good, and the cost was about 30 Euros.
No more new Wellers in my lab.
Best regards
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#20 Reply
Posted by
mdijkens
on 10 Mar, 2018 14:10
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I have the analog FX-888 and when seeing this video I am really happy I have the analog one.
Just turning a simple knob to change temperature; I love it!
Why didn't any of them go with a nice digital display, 2 or 3 preset buttons and a turning knob for temperature control
This is not progress
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#21 Reply
Posted by
ebastler
on 10 Mar, 2018 14:32
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Why didn't any of them go with a nice digital display, 2 or 3 preset buttons and a turning knob for temperature control
This is not progress
Better solutions do exist, of course. My ERSA i-con has a nice, large encoder knob with integrated push-button, which works quite intuitively for temperature adjustment and menu control.
But apparently this type of interface is reserved for higher-end soldering stations for now. Come on, guys, we all know how much (i.e. little) a simple encoder costs!
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#22 Reply
Posted by
tszaboo
on 10 Mar, 2018 15:03
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All I'm seeing here is ancient designs with terrible performance and inflated price. Weller seems to be stuck in the 80s, where switching power supply didn't exist. And arbitrary pricing.
I was quite suprized, when I first tried a Metcal station. I was looking for the temperature setting first. Didn't find it. Looked it up online, and realized, that it is one of those fixed temperature stations. And then I used it, and I realized, I never needed to change the temperature. That one setting just worked. Heats up in 5 seconds, you an change a tip in about 10 seconds, and it just does everything. First I didn't even realize what is happening, I was waiting, OK, something must be wrong with it.
It took my brain some time to realize how bad these irons are. And I ame from the WP-80 iron not this heap of crap. Or the "good quality" WRMP, which needed a new tip every time you took it out from the cabinet. It was there, because it was eating tips like no tomorrow. And the WP80's handpiece needed serious maintenance every now and then.
Seriously, forget about watt ratings and temperature settings.
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#23 Reply
Posted by
Bud
on 10 Mar, 2018 15:31
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Absolute nonsense, ability to change temperature is a must for effective work. And not in a ducky way like that Hakko, has to be either one button preset press or a dial.
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#24 Reply
Posted by
ebastler
on 10 Mar, 2018 15:37
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All I'm seeing here is ancient designs with terrible performance and inflated price. [...] I was quite suprized, when I first tried a Metcal station.
Hmm... Metcal may be good (I have not had the opportunity to try one yet), but I can't see that their pricing policy is much different from the competition. If anything, they seem to be more expensive for comparable specs?
Seriously, forget about watt ratings and temperature settings.
If a soldering station had perfect regulation of the (fixed) temperature, maybe you wouldn't need to change temperature that often. You will still have to change it sometimes, for different jobs; but I understand that the Metcals offer "self-regulating" tips as Weller did in the old days.
But why would watt rating not matter?! Seems that the capabiity to supply enough power is one prerequisite for stable temperature regulation, besides a good closed-loop control?