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The CPU core itself gets pretty hot, like 95C. The problem with these Haswell CPUs is the lid heat transfer material they used. So instead of the heat going to the heatsink lid it all either stays trapped in the CPU or it heat soaks the motherboard and the nearby VRMs via the socket. I have confirmed this with a thermal camera. I think the source of my instability is actually the motherboard, due to having been heat soaked from the CPU for so long. Like I've experienced odd behaviour like audio on board turning on and off. I have undervolted the CPU to get me through a few more months, but I still get an occasional crash now and again.My current computer is on its last legs with frequent crashes (Intel 4770k), due to lid heat transfer issues and overheating.
How high is that temperature? 90% of the crashes I've ever had on my desktop PCs were because of the faulty RAM or because of particular RAM having issues on particular mobo. Also, I guess your CPU could be less than 3yr old and can be returned to intel for exchange. Process takes just a few days and they pay for DHL express both ways.
The fix for these is to de-lid the CPU
.
But I didn't want to risk it until I had a replacement.
The CPU is older than 3 years old. The issue was always there but I didn't really notice it until a few years in, and it's only gotten worse since then.
But yeah. Intel's packaging of the CPU leaves a lot to be desired. Even on their new Kaby Lake people have registered huge temp drops by de-liding. Another reason why I've been wanting to ditch Intel for awhile. -
Finally something to possibly kick intels butt again!
Perhaps now Intel will pick up the pace... My 6yr old 2600k is still doing fairly ok compared to the latest 7700k, and thats a shame imo...
Of course AMD still needs to prove itself with the new Ryzen CPU's. Im very suspicious about them not sharing too much single core performance figures yet... Hopefully this wont be just as big of a problem as with their previous architecture. I would not pre-order for this reason alone.
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In response to the de-lidding, ive seen much improvement in core temperatures from other cpu reviewers, so that could be of great help with CPU stability
Running hot all the time slowly degrades the CPU (and mobo caps/powersupply) anyway, so the cooler you can run, the better imo. -
I am very excited for the Ryzen, when I can get enough funds together I will be upgrading from my FX-8350. I know this CPU has been bashed on for it's gaming performance but for a multi threaded work machine it has never missed a beat.
I am also running a DIY water cooling rig, so I am very interested to see what Ryzen does with the better then normal cooling setup. -
The CPU core itself gets pretty hot, like 95C. The problem with these Haswell CPUs is the lid heat transfer material they used. So instead of the heat going to the heatsink lid it all either stays trapped in the CPU or it heat soaks the motherboard and the nearby VRMs via the socket. I have confirmed this with a thermal camera. I think the source of my instability is actually the motherboard, due to having been heat soaked from the CPU for so long. Like I've experienced odd behaviour like audio on board turning on and off. I have undervolted the CPU to get me through a few more months, but I still get an occasional crash now and again.My current computer is on its last legs with frequent crashes (Intel 4770k), due to lid heat transfer issues and overheating.
How high is that temperature? 90% of the crashes I've ever had on my desktop PCs were because of the faulty RAM or because of particular RAM having issues on particular mobo. Also, I guess your CPU could be less than 3yr old and can be returned to intel for exchange. Process takes just a few days and they pay for DHL express both ways.
The fix for these is to de-lid the CPU.
But I didn't want to risk it until I had a replacement.
The CPU is older than 3 years old. The issue was always there but I didn't really notice it until a few years in, and it's only gotten worse since then.
But yeah. Intel's packaging of the CPU leaves a lot to be desired. Even on their new Kaby Lake people have registered huge temp drops by de-liding. Another reason why I've been wanting to ditch Intel for awhile.
And have you already cleaned you cooler and repasted with something decent like Kryonout or Artic MX-4?
Intel TIM is bad, but not THAT bad.... -
In response to the de-lidding, ive seen much improvement in core temperatures from other cpu reviewers, so that could be of great help with CPU stability
Running hot all the time slowly degrades the CPU (and mobo caps/powersupply) anyway, so the cooler you can run, the better imo.
I've been running a watercooled i7-3770K since about 2013. After de-lidding I used Coolaboratory Pro between the die and the IHS and got about a 25C temperature drop under load. It's pretty impressive TIM actually as long as you don't get it anywhere near aluminium.
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I have, this isn't my first rodeo, I have built 100s of computers (not even exaggerating). I've tried Cryorig H7 and Corsair H100i to no avail.
The CPU core itself gets pretty hot, like 95C. The problem with these Haswell CPUs is the lid heat transfer material they used. So instead of the heat going to the heatsink lid it all either stays trapped in the CPU or it heat soaks the motherboard and the nearby VRMs via the socket. I have confirmed this with a thermal camera. I think the source of my instability is actually the motherboard, due to having been heat soaked from the CPU for so long. Like I've experienced odd behaviour like audio on board turning on and off. I have undervolted the CPU to get me through a few more months, but I still get an occasional crash now and again.My current computer is on its last legs with frequent crashes (Intel 4770k), due to lid heat transfer issues and overheating.
How high is that temperature? 90% of the crashes I've ever had on my desktop PCs were because of the faulty RAM or because of particular RAM having issues on particular mobo. Also, I guess your CPU could be less than 3yr old and can be returned to intel for exchange. Process takes just a few days and they pay for DHL express both ways.
The fix for these is to de-lid the CPU.
But I didn't want to risk it until I had a replacement.
The CPU is older than 3 years old. The issue was always there but I didn't really notice it until a few years in, and it's only gotten worse since then.
But yeah. Intel's packaging of the CPU leaves a lot to be desired. Even on their new Kaby Lake people have registered huge temp drops by de-liding. Another reason why I've been wanting to ditch Intel for awhile.
And have you already cleaned you cooler and repasted with something decent like Kryonout or Artic MX-4?
Intel TIM is bad, but not THAT bad.... -
I've only built dozens, but except for the ones where I recycled the parts or sold off the old stuff, they are ALL still working fine. I've never had a CPU failure, that's for sure. I don't overclock, or only do very mild overclocks though. But my current array of systems is powered on 24/7 and either have stock Intel coolers or in the case of my main desktop, a Coolermaster something or other that doesn't drop temps a whole lot but also was cheap - it has a very high bang for the buck rating at HardOCP.
Going to need to see some good real world numbers to consider Ryzen. I did go AMD in the XP1700+ days, they were much better than the Intel equivalent, but my mistake with that system was to go with a 9700 video card, ATI never was on par with the equivalent nVidia and I discovered that when I put Linux on that box and had utterly horrible graphics performance, the machine I had previous to that was a Pentium3-500MHz with whatever mainstream nVidia card was current when I built it and it had BETTER graphics performance under both a Windows based 3D CAD program AND Linux. AMD CPUs since have been pretty much just disappointing. Hopefully Ryzen is a reversal and there is some real competition again.
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Hitler Finds Out About Ryzen Benchmarks
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AMD doesn't play around.. lid is soldered with Indium and Gold:
No need to Delid AMD CPUs like Intel ones which use a cheap TIM solution. -
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Tom's hardware review is out too:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-cpu,4951.html
Somewhat better than I expected, honestly- its competitive in non-threaded workloads but can even beat Intel in highly threaded applications. Power doesn't look bad, either, but they don't compare power to any other systems for some reason.
If you do encoding, 3d rendering, or any other highly threaded work, its looking like a no-brainer which is really all anyone could hope for.
In regards to the 4770k, I've had mine overclocked to 4.3Ghz for 3 years and have only gotten unexpected BSoDs a few times. Temps have a massive impact on stability when overclocking- BSoDs will happen before thermal throttling. I've been considering delidding to see if I can get over 4.5Ghz. I use a custom water cooling loop. -
In regards to the 4770k, I've had mine overclocked to 4.3Ghz for 3 years and have only gotten unexpected BSoDs a few times. Temps have a massive impact on stability when overclocking- BSoDs will happen before thermal throttling. I've been considering delidding to see if I can get over 4.5Ghz. I use a custom water cooling loop.
I decided to not overclock anything a long time ago. For 2 simple reasons, 1. stability is more important than a little bit of added speed. 2. As power consumption rises a LOT with overclocking, I'd rather pay more for the CPU rather than the same amount or more for electricity over it's lifetime (running PC for 15+ yours a day). Might be different, if electricity is almost free for you or you, run PC only occasionally, or run at stock most of the time and overclock when needed. -
I don't run overclocked either, never felt the risk to stability was worth the rather meager actual use performance gains. Though it makes for a good tool to verify stability. I think it's pretty amazing some of these CPUs can be overclocked as much as they can. Makes me wonder why they don't just sell them at the higher clock speed. Do they need that much of a margin to guarantee stability?
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I think he'll be laughing now. Intel will be ahead again when X299 arrives while AMD is struggling to figure out why DDR4 is broken.
Hitler Finds Out About Ryzen Benchmarks -
Tom's hardware review is out too:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-cpu,4951.html
Somewhat better than I expected, honestly- its competitive in non-threaded workloads but can even beat Intel in highly threaded applications. Power doesn't look bad, either, but they don't compare power to any other systems for some reason.
Grrr! One of those heavily ad laden websites that almost fails to load on a mobile device!
I digress, I liked the pic of the trophy stereo HMO 3054 scopes, 10 grand of scope to make a couple of current readings. Judging by the probe cable management and location on shelves above the bench, I doubt they get much serious use. -
AMD hasn't been competitive since the Athlon days. Glad to see they're Ryzen up to the challenge again.
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In regards to the 4770k, I've had mine overclocked to 4.3Ghz for 3 years and have only gotten unexpected BSoDs a few times. Temps have a massive impact on stability when overclocking- BSoDs will happen before thermal throttling. I've been considering delidding to see if I can get over 4.5Ghz. I use a custom water cooling loop.
run at stock most of the time and overclock when needed.
Most overclocked CPUs are like that by default these days. While mine is overclocked, all of its power saving functions still work and it only pushes the extra voltage when running at the overclocked speeds. Power consumption is not increased at all until the extra speed is used. Of course this doesn't help if you are running software that uses 100% CPU regardless. So actual impact to the power bill is very small.
The "overclocking" concept is a little... cloudy these days. The 4770K is rated at 3.5Ghz with a 3.9Ghz "turbo." By merely replacing the stock cooler with a better one it'll run indefinitely at the faster speed... so is that an overclock? -
AMD Q&A on Reddit:- https://as.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5x4hxu/we_are_amd_creators_of_athlon_radeon_and_other/
Why there is huge discrepancy is gaming benchmarks for reviewers today? Is this something related to BIOS update?
Lisa Su:
Ryzen is doing really well in 1440p and 4K gaming when the applications are more graphics bound. And we do exceptionally well in rendering and workstation applications where more cores are really useful. In 1080p, we have tested over 100+ titles in the labs…. And depending on the test conditions, we do better in some games and worse in others. We hear people on wanting to see improved 1080p performance and we fully expect that Ryzen performance in 1080p will only get better as developers get more time with “Zen”. We have over 300+ developers now working with "Zen" and several of the developers for Ashes of Singularity and Total Warhammer are actively optimizing now"
"In addition to Lisa's comments, there are also some variables that could affect performance:
1) Early motherboard BIOSes were certainly troubled: disabling unrelated features would turn off cores. Setting memory overclocks on some motherboards would disable boost. Some BIOS revisions would plain produce universally suppressed performance.
2) Ryzen benefits from disabling High Precision Event Timers (HPET). The timer resolution of HPET can cause an observer effect that can subtract performance. This is a BIOS option, or a function that can be disabled from the Windows command shell.
3) Ryzen benefits from enabling the High Performance power profile. This overrides core parking. Eventually we will have a driver that allows people to stay on balanced and disable core parking anyways. Gamers have been doing this for a while, too.
These are just some examples of the early growing pains that can be overcome with time."
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Hello AMD! This question is a very short one.
Do Ryzen CPUs support ECC Memory, yes or no?
Lisa Su:
Yes they do!
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Most overclocked CPUs are like that by default these days. While mine is overclocked, all of its power saving functions still work and it only pushes the extra voltage when running at the overclocked speeds. Power consumption is not increased at all until the extra speed is used. Of course this doesn't help if you are running software that uses 100% CPU regardless. So actual impact to the power bill is very small.
AFAIK usually you add some voltage (say + 0.1V) over default voltage. And that additional voltage is applied all of the time. Yes it drops with frequency but is always higher than normal by this amount. Also, CPU frequency and voltage jumps to maximum even at relatively light loads, not nearly 100 or even 50%. -
AMD Q&A on Reddit:- https://as.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5x4hxu/we_are_amd_creators_of_athlon_radeon_and_other/
It seems that disabling SMT significantly improves performance in some games. Probably virtual cores get the load while the rest of real cores stay idle.
Why there is huge discrepancy is gaming benchmarks for reviewers today? Is this something related to BIOS update?
On the other hand, when using real graphics settings in games, there is no difference between the CPUs in the vast majority of cases. Who buys $300+ CPU and plays @1366x768 resolution? -
1080P is still the most common. Valve's hardware surveys show that. In that case the Intel chips are better. But the reason why they use these resolutions is to show how each CPU/architecture scales.AMD Q&A on Reddit:- https://as.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5x4hxu/we_are_amd_creators_of_athlon_radeon_and_other/
It seems that disabling SMT significantly improves performance in some games. Probably virtual cores get the load while the rest of real cores stay idle.
Why there is huge discrepancy is gaming benchmarks for reviewers today? Is this something related to BIOS update?
On the other hand, when using real graphics settings in games, there is no difference between the CPUs in the vast majority of cases. Who buys $300+ CPU and plays @1366x768 resolution?
It's pointless showing 4K benchmarks of a CPU when 5-year-old processors perform the same as the one just come out - that's just showing a GPU limit.
Ryzen is a great workstation CPU, bad at workloads which fail to make use of multi-threading and SMT as you said. IPC and single core is better on Kaby Lake, and better overall chipset capabilities. -
It seems that disabling SMT significantly improves performance in some games. Probably virtual cores get the load while the rest of real cores stay idle.
There has been an interesting point on this. The processor is made from 2 4-core clusters, and each has its own L3. The cluster to cluster L3 bandwitdh is about 1/4 of the core to L3 bandwidth. People were noticing windows shuttling tasks between cores (as it does), and every time a task gets moved to a core on the other cluster it either severely impacts cache performance or generates a cache miss. It will be interesting to see what happens when they patch windows to be aware of the logical core layout (much like they had to do with the bulldozer architecture).
Not that I really care as I don't use Windows.
On the whole, AMD did better than they said they would and really delivered. They never promised it to be an Intel killer and they never promised it to excel across all games/configurations. What they did promise was Excavator + 40%, and they underpromised and over-delivered. They have a new architecture to build on for the next few years, and they'll bring some real competition back into the CPU market.
I am finding the number of butthurt gamer weenies crying that they pre-orderd hardware based on promises AMD made (that they never did) and screaming that it's a turd and AMD has failed again, quite amusing. Then again, they were probably still in nappies when the last round of major architecture bumps occurred and therefore missed all the release day teething troubles associated with those too.
I'll wait for the next couple of rounds of microcode updates before I order one, but it has just jumped up my priority list. It'll be a nice upgrade from the FX-8350 that has been driving my server since 2012 and might even replace the overclocked 3770K in my CAD machine.
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Don't get me wrong. I'm an AMD fan from way back
I'm not.
I saved $50? on a mobo/cpu at the computer shop once in ~2002. The bloke conned me into buying the AMD athalon XP. I only wanted another machine to run menial disk maintenance tasks and possible a spare machine if the main rig broke down.
Found out the dos-based Norton Ghost disk cloner doesn't support non-intel in the fine print and sure enough after an hour or two munching on a drive, it hangs.
Never bothered to find out if it ran win98 as reliably(?) as on a Pentium 4 I got soon after in disgust.
The board found use as a firewall for about four years until the caps blew out and the thing wouldn't boot anymore. I learned my lesson.
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Don't get me wrong. I'm an AMD fan from way back
I'm not.
I saved $50? on a mobo/cpu at the computer shop once in ~2002. The bloke conned me into buying the AMD athalon XP. I only wanted another machine to run menial disk maintenance tasks and possible a spare machine if the main rig broke down.
Found out the dos-based Norton Ghost disk cloner doesn't support non-intel in the fine print and sure enough after an hour or two munching on a drive, it hangs.
Never bothered to find out if it ran win98 as reliably(?) as on a Pentium 4 I got soon after in disgust.
The board found use as a firewall for about four years until the caps blew out and the thing wouldn't boot anymore. I learned my lesson.
I don't really see how Norton's violent level of incompetence has anything to do with the CPU.
