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Canadian Supreme Court orders Global Google Search Term Ban
Posted by CharlieWorton on 28 Jun, 2017 21:02 -
This is bizarre, and interesting on a whole bunch of different levels. Here's a link to the story:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/supreme-court-upholds-worldwide-order-directing-google-to-block-content-1.3479912
A B.C. company called Equustek developed a specialized device that allowed specialized data equipment from differing companies to easily exchange data with each other. Lots of engineering, big success, jobs created, etc.
They engaged the services of another company, Datalink, to sell their portals. But it wasn't long before they discovered that Datalink was removing Equustek labels, and selling the equipment as their own. Later, if I understand the story correctly, Datalink had the boards reverse engineered and started manufacturing and selling the equipment directly. Direct violation of a whole bunch of patents.
Equustek cried foul, and moved to get the company shut down. But the company would jump from country to country, while continuing to sell equipment through their website.
So Equustek moved to have the company removed from Google searches, and that order was granted by the B.C. provincial court. But Google refused to comply, and the matter was referred to the Canadian Supreme Court.
Today, in a 7-2 decision, the Canadian Supreme Court ordered Google to enforce a global ban on searches for Datalink.
This is interesting, in that a relatively small country - 99.5% of all humans do Not live in Canada - has been able to force policies that affect the global population. From Google's point of view, they must either comply, or shutter their operations in Canada.
I am in total agreement with Equusteks desire to enforce every legal means at their disposal to shut down Datalink.
But what happens when middle eastern countries decide that Google must stop searches for Porn, or cease to operate in the middle east? What happens when some U.S. states decide that Google must stop searches for Abortion Clinics, or cease operations in that state?
If I were Datalink, I'd just change the name of my company to 'superlink' and carry on as before.
And it's important to note that while this restriction applies to Google, it does not apply to Yahoo, Duck Duck Go, Bing, or all the other search engines.
So... I'm kinda thinking that forcing just Google to follow this policy is unfair to Google. It should have been a ban on all major search engines.
And secondly, I don't think this will harm Datalink. They'll just change their name and carry on.
Finally, it sets a dangerous precedent - where a small group of people can enforce their beliefs on the global population. I think there's something really bad there.
What are your thoughts?
>Charlie -
Yes, the internet is still a brave new world. I suspect we will see more and more governments try an impose their will, however I always though that it would be a national type ban, firewalling in and out, rather then attempting a global ban. Goggle is indeed having to deal with a lot of stuff these days, but they have the size and income to make fighting it worth their while I guess.
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I think tat I left Canada just at the right time. First enforced use of pronouns for self identifying genders, making the criticism of Islam a racist hate speech offense, and not this? Wow....
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Maybe just remove Google access from the 0.5% of human beings who live in Canada and leave the rest of us alone. I WANT to be able to search for Datalink (I don't know why...). I suspect Google won't comply and this case will become an international incident. The Supreme Court of Canada has no jurisdiction outside of Canada.
I have the same problem with the new EU fine against Google. Nobody was forcing anybody in the EU to use Google. Google runs it search business to benefit Google and their stockholders. If folks don't like the way Google categorizes advertisements, they can use any other search engine they want - it's a free world!. Were I Google, I would simply block all EU countries, forever! I would certainly not pay the EU fine.
Of course I would have taken the same position were I Microsoft when the EU fined them for including Internet Explorer and not including every other browser in the world. For Pete's sake, the EU users could have just ignored IE and downloaded whatever they wanted. Of course, they would have had to buy a CD version because it would be too painful to use IE to download something else. So, again, were I Microsoft, I would have pulled my products from the EU, cancelled licenses (if allowed by the EUA) and blocked any kind of support or updates. If EU folks wanted Microsoft products, they could buy them from retailers in the US, under US law, and pay the import fees. If that decision ultimately drove EU users to Linux, they would be decades behind where they are today. But, no, Microsoft caved! To extortion!
The EU has a habit of fining American companies that trounce the EU competition. Or, for any other reason they can dream up.
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In for Google flipping the switch in Canada for a day. No Google ads, no gmail, no Google play store, no YouTube, no setting up a new or freshly reset android phone. Would make for an interesting day.
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I think Equusteks should contract with a military mercenary outfit and call in a drone strike.
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I think tat I left Canada just at the right time. First enforced use of pronouns for self identifying genders, making the criticism of Islam a racist hate speech offense, and not this? Wow....
Yeah this kind of stuff makes me ashamed of my country. We are turning as bad, if worse than the US when it comes to this kind of crap.
IP laws in general are ridiculous now, it's a tool designed to halt freedom. That's all it is now. It's not even about protecting artists or creators, it's only about corporate interests. It's completely ridiculous that a search engine can be ordered to alter search results for the sake of it. A search engine should be 100% neutral and should not be forced to change results based on any kind of agenda. -
Where Google is now: they can comply with the Supreme Court ruling, or they can cease all operations in Canada until such time as the ruling is reversed. Those are the options.Quote
In for Google flipping the switch in Canada for a day.
Wikipedia did that for a day, and it really captured a lot of attention. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing all of Google's alphabet soup products made unavailable in Canada for a while. Even though I'm a Canadian and would truly miss the products and services that Google provides, I really do feel that the Supreme Court has overstepped its bounds. You get to enforce your will in Canada, but no where else.QuoteI think Equusteks should contract with a military mercenary outfit and call in a drone strike.
Yep. We're getting to the point that the law is proving inadequate to deal with such matters. Too bad that all the 'hitman for hire' ads in the mercenary magazines are actually sting operations.
And on top of everything else, the Supreme Court decision would be completely ineffective. Pirate Bay is still rocking with the lights on, despite being the number one target of the MPAA for well over a decade. Technical blockades take too much time to set up, and are too easily thwarted.
What should actually have happened is a criminal warrant issued for the arrest of the individual involved. That warrant, enforceable in every country with an extradition treaty with Canada, would bring the matter to a screeching halt in very short order.
I love my country, and for good reason; Canada does a ton of wonderful things for its citizens. But she occasionally screws up, and I think that this is one of those times.
>Charlie -
I forgot about googles DMCA takedown shenanigans. If something is blocked because of a DMCA request. At the bottom there is "x Entries removed bla bla DMCA request, click here to see entries removed and claimant" or something along the lines of that.
I could see them thumbing their nose at the Canada supreme court and make it the search results be empty, with a notice "Error blocked keyword in Canada, auto-redirecting to List of blocked results and reason in 5 seconds" And having removed them from the search results and have them on a list of blocked entries which totally isnt search results, so technically complying. Though not as exciting as "lol k, flipping the switch on your dumb ass"
Or replace every google ad with an autoplay with video with sound "Error unable to load google content in your county, please contact your representative at (insert phone number, email and address determined from IP geolocation and looking up corresponding representative )"
While its nothing new that big corporations can influence the government, (
) it would be interesting, philosophically, to see one that can influence the government, rapidly, via the public rather than greasing the right palms.
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This is just another case where the laws haven't kept up with technology. The Supreme Court has the unenviable job of trying to apply horse-and-carriage laws to a Tesla world.
Now that the court has ruled, the only ways for Google to avoid enforcing this ban in Canada are an appeal to the same people that just ruled against them (I think they can do that), or lobby the federal government to change the law. It would be interesting to see what happened if they blocked the results in Canada and still had it available in other parts of the world. Would the Supreme Court find them in contempt for not enforcing the ban worldwide? Can they really do that?
This has nothing to do with censorship, freedom of speech, or politics. It's about a company that stole another company's idea. Companies big and small have been fighting about this stuff for centuries. The only new wrinkle here is that the thieves are jumping around the planet to avoid getting caught and the Internet allows them to do that and continue their illegal business.
Ed
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While sad that there's illegal stuff going on, I don't think any country has the right to control a company's international business unless that company only served countries within an alliance. Since Canada does not have an alliance with the entire planet, they have no say what happens elsewhere. HOWEVER, they might bring NATO into this and possibly try to enforce it within NATO countries but I doubt it would ever get to that level of diplomacy unless it became a major threat to the country's economy (which it won't, it's just a patent scam).
Plus, blocking a search result on Google will not stop people from buying counterfeit goods...'CAUSE GUESS WHAT...TELL THE (bleep)ING IDIOTS ABOUT YAHOO, let alone the deepweb...
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Searching about information shouldn't be blocked.
If Canada's court rules a Canadian business to be breaking a law, fine them and/or close them down.
Canada should not have the right to burn all publications unless you want to give to Canadian government the right to censor and erase information which has already existed in the public domain, as in it has been published.
I hope Google ignores the Canadian government on this one, but, it seems they already blocked searches on Google.ca alone which means Google has a blocking capability in place and the might just do a world wide block since it's for 1 tiny indiscreet company of no true worldwide consequences. This goes along the lines of burning history books, science/chemistry books, technical documents because they contain information you may today consider illegal. -
Where Google is now: they can comply with the Supreme Court ruling, or they can cease all operations in Canada until such time as the ruling is reversed. Those are the options.
But Google may not be 'doing business' in Canada. Where are the servers? If the Canadians are networking across their border into servers located in the US, shame on them. They should know better!
I really don't have any idea how extensive Google's physical presence is in Canada. If they have a presence, the Canadian Supreme Court probably has jurisdiction over that presence. If they don't have a presence, the Canadian government can block Google at the border (routers) I suppose.
The flip side works as well. There was some issue with exporting encryption from the US so the developers of OpenBSD had to host their files in Canada where there was no such restriction.
It plays both ways.
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Maybe just remove Google access from the 0.5% of human beings who live in Canada and leave the rest of us alone. I WANT to be able to search for Datalink (I don't know why...). I suspect Google won't comply and this case will become an international incident. The Supreme Court of Canada has no jurisdiction outside of Canada.
I have the same problem with the new EU fine against Google. Nobody was forcing anybody in the EU to use Google. Google runs it search business to benefit Google and their stockholders. If folks don't like the way Google categorizes advertisements, they can use any other search engine they want - it's a free world!. Were I Google, I would simply block all EU countries, forever! I would certainly not pay the EU fine.
Of course I would have taken the same position were I Microsoft when the EU fined them for including Internet Explorer and not including every other browser in the world. For Pete's sake, the EU users could have just ignored IE and downloaded whatever they wanted. Of course, they would have had to buy a CD version because it would be too painful to use IE to download something else. So, again, were I Microsoft, I would have pulled my products from the EU, cancelled licenses (if allowed by the EUA) and blocked any kind of support or updates. If EU folks wanted Microsoft products, they could buy them from retailers in the US, under US law, and pay the import fees. If that decision ultimately drove EU users to Linux, they would be decades behind where they are today. But, no, Microsoft caved! To extortion!
The EU has a habit of fining American companies that trounce the EU competition. Or, for any other reason they can dream up.
agreed that google being fined by the EU is complete bullshit, i recall that the thing with microsoft was a bit different. you were forced to install IE garbage and you can't really uninstall it. It's not like google that has the biggest share because most of its competitors are garbage
anyway a "better" way to do what canada is doing would be to block the access to the websites IPs. They do it all the time here for streaming websites (and it works soooo well.. nevermind)
I think they only want to set the precedent -
This is bizarre, and interesting on a whole bunch of different levels. Here's a link to the story:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/supreme-court-upholds-worldwide-order-directing-google-to-block-content-1.3479912
A B.C. company called Equustek developed a specialized device that allowed specialized data equipment from differing companies to easily exchange data with each other. Lots of engineering, big success, jobs created, etc.
They engaged the services of another company, Datalink, to sell their portals. But it wasn't long before they discovered that Datalink was removing Equustek labels, and selling the equipment as their own. Later, if I understand the story correctly, Datalink had the boards reverse engineered and started manufacturing and selling the equipment directly. Direct violation of a whole bunch of patents.
Equustek cried foul, and moved to get the company shut down. But the company would jump from country to country, while continuing to sell equipment through their website.
So Equustek moved to have the company removed from Google searches, and that order was granted by the B.C. provincial court. But Google refused to comply, and the matter was referred to the Canadian Supreme Court.
Today, in a 7-2 decision, the Canadian Supreme Court ordered Google to enforce a global ban on searches for Datalink.
This is interesting, in that a relatively small country - 99.5% of all humans do Not live in Canada - has been able to force policies that affect the global population. From Google's point of view, they must either comply, or shutter their operations in Canada.
Easy choice, tell Canada to get stuffed.
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Internet companies based in the U.S. are in rather tricky legal jeopardy with these rulings. If Google complies, a U.S. entity (person, company, whatever) could--and probably SHOULD, sue for violation of First Amendment rights; a suit the entity would almost surely win. Then what? Which court ruling do they follow?
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The EU has a habit of fining American companies that trounce the EU competition. Or, for any other reason they can dream up.
EU has a habit to fine EU companies as well, so stop crying about that. Volkswagen and Opel was among the first companies being fined. -
The EU has a habit of fining American companies that trounce the EU competition. Or, for any other reason they can dream up.
EU has a habit to fine EU companies as well, so stop crying about that. Volkswagen and Opel was among the first companies being fined.
For competition or fraud? Seems to me that cheating the smog laws is fraud, simple as that. Not presenting the ad responses in a particular order that some whiny country wants is a competitive matter, not fraud!
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Internet companies based in the U.S. are in rather tricky legal jeopardy with these rulings. If Google complies, a U.S. entity (person, company, whatever) could--and probably SHOULD, sue for violation of First Amendment rights; a suit the entity would almost surely win. Then what? Which court ruling do they follow?
As I said earlier, Google should just block Canada. It's a Canadian ruling, it should impact only Canada. The only real question is whether to block Canada's access to the search engine or all of Google services (gmail, Chrome, Android). After all, we wouldn't want to leave any kind of work-around.
What I can't imagine is what the court was thinking. How did they think this was going to work out? Do they really expect Google to comply? Or are they just trying to start an international incident with the US? Are the judges smoking something? -
The EU has a habit of fining American companies that trounce the EU competition. Or, for any other reason they can dream up.
EU has a habit to fine EU companies as well, so stop crying about that. Volkswagen and Opel was among the first companies being fined.
For competition or fraud? Seems to me that cheating the smog laws is fraud, simple as that. Not presenting the ad responses in a particular order that some whiny country wants is a competitive matter, not fraud!
Fined for competition. If I remember correct, Volkswagen got in trouble for some kind of market sharing and Opel because it denied service documentation to independent workshops. It has also been something related to other car manufacturers, but I have forgot the details. It seems the fines did what they was expected to do.
Volvo/Renault, DAF, Daimler and IVECO got some heavy fines last year for competition in the truck maket and there has been several other cases, so they don't just chase US companies. It just seems so because the US companies are well known to the public and the cases makes some headlines.
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I can't see how canada can make a law for the rest of the world. I feel for the company that are the victim of their products being copied but this is the wrong approach. If they have patents etc they should pursue the company directly in court.
If it comes to things like this related to the internet that affect the whole world it should be high time for a worldwide body to be formed and perhaps they can start dealing with the real criminals stuff that is out of reach of one countries law enforcement, I think a notable example being things like child porn hosted in countries that don't give a stuff. -
... high time for a worldwide body to be formed and perhaps they can start dealing with the real criminals stuff that is out of reach of one countries law enforcement, I think a notable example being things like child porn hosted in countries that don't give a stuff.
that right there is one slippery ass slope -
why ? the internet is global, it needs treating globally so that no one country can make laws that affect others. A a parallel problem is that of haulage companies in ,the UK that get shut down because their lorries are unsafe and they kill people, they go to bulgaria and get a new licence to operate and with the EU and all that this licence is valid in the UK, so the law can be circumvented, the same happens with websites doing illegal things, they make sure they operate from a country where they won't get shut down. And we hear all the time about people committing a crime in one country but coming from another where they have history but the country they move to knows nothing of that. World wide law and order is something that needs to be developed if we are to stay safe and also free from other countries interference like is implied in this case.
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But what happens when middle eastern countries decide that Google must stop searches for Porn, or cease to operate in the middle east? What happens when some U.S. states decide that Google must stop searches for Abortion Clinics, or cease operations in that state?
You know nothing about Google China?
Oh, my sweet summer child...
(In short: yes, they can, and do, comply with the laws of every country they operate within.)
Tim -
quite, countries like china just have a nationwide firewall and replace things like facebook, twitter and google with their own versions, carefully crafted for the peace of mind of their own citizens.