Maybe you should read the news a bit more in-depth. There are hydrogen storage and production projects in various states allover the world in order to supply energy across the globe. This is one close at home for me: https://www.shell.com/media/news-and-media-releases/2022/shell-to-start-building-europes-largest-renewable-hydrogen-plant.html
And you are wrong about oil being an energy source. It isn't; it is stored solar energy.
And you are also wrong about electricity being a primary energy form. It is a handy intermediary form for local use but storage and/or transport over long distances is expensive.
Nuclear energy is the closest we can get to a primary energy source on earth.
A large part of the popularity of BEVs is based on hype.
There speaks a man who hasn't driven one, or at least lived with one for a while. The popularity, among those who have driven them, is that they are good to drive. I'm a petrol head of long standing, having driven a range of cars and motorbikes, for the cars mostly "performance" cars including some serious exotica and I like driving EVs. My PHEV gets driven almost exclusively in EV mode where it only has 66kW/88bhp available to drag its 1735 kg kerb weight around, but it doesn't feel like "only" 38kW/51bhp per tonne, it feels more responsive and tractable than the 130bhp/tonne sports car it replaced and that I liked so much, and couldn't find anything comparable in performance or handling, that I've stuck to driving for the last 22 years.
Then you add not having to listen to a petrol or diesel engine drone at you all the time, or the vibrations from the same, and it's a different world. Quiet, fast, calm, what's not to like.
Maybe you should read the news a bit more in-depth. There are hydrogen storage and production projects in various states allover the world in order to supply energy across the globe. This is one close at home for me: https://www.shell.com/media/news-and-media-releases/2022/shell-to-start-building-europes-largest-renewable-hydrogen-plant.html
Yes, there are projects for generating hydrogen. None of them are in competition with Petroleum, or more importantly, none are in competition with BEVs in any way.
QuoteAnd you are wrong about oil being an energy source. It isn't; it is stored solar energy.
LOL!!! I actually laughed at that one. When you decide to get serious, let me know and we can continue the discussion. LOL!
A large part of the popularity of BEVs is based on hype.
There speaks a man who hasn't driven one, or at least lived with one for a while. The popularity, among those who have driven them, is that they are good to drive.
A large part of the popularity of BEVs is based on hype.
There speaks a man who hasn't driven one, or at least lived with one for a while. The popularity, among those who have driven them, is that they are good to drive.That remark misses the point by a mile... Look at resource and scalability issues of BEVs. If it would have made sense for my to drive in a BEV I'd would have but it doesn't. Despite living in a country that is among the few countries that has the highest percentage of BEVs driving around.
There speaks a man who hasn't driven one, or at least lived with one for a while. The popularity, among those who have driven them, is that they are good to drive. I'm a petrol head of long standing, having driven a range of cars and motorbikes, for the cars mostly "performance" cars including some serious exotica and I like driving EVs. My PHEV gets driven almost exclusively in EV mode where it only has 66kW/88bhp available to drag its 1735 kg kerb weight around, but it doesn't feel like "only" 38kW/51bhp per tonne, it feels more responsive and tractable than the 130bhp/tonne sports car it replaced and that I liked so much, and couldn't find anything comparable in performance or handling, that I've stuck to driving for the last 22 years.
Maybe you should read the news a bit more in-depth. There are hydrogen storage and production projects in various states allover the world in order to supply energy across the globe. This is one close at home for me: https://www.shell.com/media/news-and-media-releases/2022/shell-to-start-building-europes-largest-renewable-hydrogen-plant.html
Yes, there are projects for generating hydrogen. None of them are in competition with Petroleum, or more importantly, none are in competition with BEVs in any way.Not yet but the wheels are in motion.QuoteQuoteAnd you are wrong about oil being an energy source. It isn't; it is stored solar energy.
LOL!!! I actually laughed at that one. When you decide to get serious, let me know and we can continue the discussion. LOL!So, where does oil come from according to you?
I just read an article about how car manufacturers are trying to make everything a "subscription" to drive future revenue, from installed hardware (that you choose whether to use or not) to software features (especially "cloud-connected" stuff). Knowing that, how will it impact the future owner-subscription model for automobiles and green-energy?
For example, would we essentially have a fleet of eco-friendly vehicles lined up to use in a neighbourhood and share them between people? Perhaps apartment blocks could have a scheduling system where you can reserve the car and pay for certain time using it. Would we be paying per mile driven? Would anyone even own their electric or hybrid vehicles, or would car manufacturers actually embed eco-friendly features and then disable them unless paying a subscription to utilize them (e.g. a larger-capacity battery but you can't use most of it).
So far we have been thinking "in the box" regarding the same standard private vehicle ownership model and commuting to work, stores, for leisure, etc. But what sort of paradigm-shifting future plans exist for transportation?
More people working and shopping from home, via the "Metaverse" can also reduce fuel consumption. Ride-sharing and other modes of transportation to reduce traffic congestion, which also wastes a ton of fuel (how many single-passenger vehicles occupying the roads). Yes we can work on making more fuel-efficient cars but that will eventually hit a limit.... it is only one part of a multi-pronged approach. I feel like other ways to reduce transportation in general, like increasing efficiency of existing modes (not in terms of fuel but eliminating single-passengers in 5 ton vehicles, more carpooling, store deliveries, pooled shipping, lighter/smaller 1-2 passenger vehicles like weather-covered e-bikes, etc) will have more impact.
But a lot of car ownership is about convenience and the only thing more convenient than owning a car is all of the benefits of a car without actually having to park it on your drive.
That sounds reasonable until you have to pay for it. What you describe is what is called a taxi. I think you will be surprised how small the part 'labour costs' is for a ride in a taxi. IOW: self driving cars as a rental form is not going to be cheaper. Especially if you are sensible with your money and buy a used car.
That sounds reasonable until you have to pay for it. What you describe is what is called a taxi. I think you will be surprised how small the part 'labour costs' is for a ride in a taxi. IOW: self driving cars as a rental form is not going to be cheaper. Especially if you are sensible with your money and buy a used car.
I see no reason that a SDC would be more expensive than owning your own car, especially when you consider insurance, maintenance, breakdowns etc.
A taxi driver around here makes about £15 per hour if busy, if they do 30 mph average that's 50p per mile. Most taxi companies charge about 80p-£1 per mile around here. And there's no reason an SDC would need to be a new vehicle - they could easily do 500k miles before being scrapped if designed right.
That sounds reasonable until you have to pay for it. What you describe is what is called a taxi. I think you will be surprised how small the part 'labour costs' is for a ride in a taxi. IOW: self driving cars as a rental form is not going to be cheaper. Especially if you are sensible with your money and buy a used car.
I see no reason that a SDC would be more expensive than owning your own car, especially when you consider insurance, maintenance, breakdowns etc.
My car (reasonably sized station wagon) costs me around 0.21 euro per km all in while not skimping on any maintenance. Next car is going to be cheaper due to lower fuel consumption.
My car (reasonably sized station wagon) costs me around 0.21 euro per km all in while not skimping on any maintenance. Next car is going to be cheaper due to lower fuel consumption.
Are you truly including all of the other costs of a car?
- Space to park it, either on a driveway or an area with sufficient street parking, which influences where you can afford to live
Not to mention, EVs don't need to charge at 6pm, like when you might put the oven on, which creates a lot of demand. EVs can charge at 2am, parked on your driveway,Can you please get me a driveway? And while you are at it, thousands of people that live in my neighbourhood would like one as well. And make it two driveways for the households with two cars.
My car (reasonably sized station wagon) costs me around 0.21 euro per km all in while not skimping on any maintenance. Next car is going to be cheaper due to lower fuel consumption.
Are you truly including all of the other costs of a car?
- Space to park it, either on a driveway or an area with sufficient street parking, which influences where you can afford to live
- Opportunity-cost and actual cost from servicing (take it in for a service, emissions test etc.) or if you do as much of this yourself, the time cost
- Cost of a breakdown, like a large repair bill if something expensive goes wrong
- Taxes and disincentives towards driving (parking fees, toll fees to enter city centres)
I do think a well built electric SDC could achieve 500k miles with ordinary maintenance. The battery pack or chassis perforation from rust would be the most common reasons to scrap a vehicle IMO. Ultimately it would cost less to sporadically hire one than to leave a car on your driveway.
I know of some fossil vehicle models that routinely do 500k without major repairs, so it is possible to build vehicles like that.
they know what it actually costs
they know what it actually costsNo, they really don't. The tax agency numbers are typically based on reasonable costs for an average newer vehicle. Your numbers and their numbers may be wildly off the mark for others. In your example, registration and parking are over half your total cost. For me and many others, those are nearly nil.
I know of some fossil vehicle models that routinely do 500k without major repairs, so it is possible to build vehicles like that.Any examples? My (extensive) experience tells me that vehicles don't get that far without both a significant repair budget and a willingness to allow the overall condition of the vehicle to deteriorate a bit. I've seen some Prius taxis still running around at 300K miles, but there is some survivor bias built into those types of anecdotes.
That doesn't say that the Australian tax department has a bad handle on what a car costs to operate, its very very close to real world figures (have checked with an accountant who do this for their clients).
But to say parking has zero cost is only true for those people using on street parking, which does have a cost to others and by using it for "free" is a subsidy on the operating cost of a vehicle.
But to say parking has zero cost is only true for those people using on street parking, which does have a cost to others and by using it for "free" is a subsidy on the operating cost of a vehicle.Unless you are building a new civilization on Mars or are just waxing eloquent on philosophical economics, you need to talk about incremental costs when it comes to changing the status quo. I have a garage, a driveway and available street parking. My current and future incremental costs for these are zero regardless of what the inputs were long ago or what expenses might be attributed to them in the future as they aren't going away even if my cars do. Many people will be in this same boat.
That doesn't say that the Australian tax department has a bad handle on what a car costs to operate, its very very close to real world figures (have checked with an accountant who do this for their clients).It isn't necessary to change countries to prove this wrong, at least in the way that I meant that it was wrong--there is no single number that works for everyone. All you would have to do is drive twice as far every year and your numbers would change drastically. So their numbers may work for many 'average' cases, but they can't work for everyone.
they know what it actually costsNo, they really don't.
]That is your choice of accounting method, which does nothing to make my explicitly stated choice of accounting method any less correct. Parking space has a market cost, if someone parking a car in a garage left it empty with nothing in its place that's a poor use of a resource, which has a opportunity cost since there are other productive (and paying) uses for that space.
]That is your choice of accounting method, which does nothing to make my explicitly stated choice of accounting method any less correct. Parking space has a market cost, if someone parking a car in a garage left it empty with nothing in its place that's a poor use of a resource, which has a opportunity cost since there are other productive (and paying) uses for that space.Saying I'll be ahead by thousands every year because I'm not using my driveway is the same accounting that says a bankrupt company is going to be able to pay their bonds with shareholder equity and goodwill.