And maybe some of you are right that it's better to go in the direction of business rather than an employee so let's talk about that, who did it, examples, etc ..
There's nosimpleanswer and noeasyway.
Again this just my own observation/projection of correlations, but I will repeat myself: "the hard way".
Normally I would advise people to start their own business/freelance if they are self taught. This way you could avoid the formal qualifications part. But you do need to have like a portfolio of finished and polished projects to show off to clients that you're capable of the job. But also IMO it's also bad advice, as this should have been your own idea. You cannot just tell someone else that he should be his own boss - everyone should already do that to their own career. I can imagine you're not completely comfortable with this idea since you also need to support a family.
What web development did bring me, is the first few steps into programming when I was really young, and eventually switched over to software, embedded and electrical engineering. In terms of hands-on experience, I think I learned the most from my own projects. So I would certainly recommended having lots of those, and see where that can bring you.
first thank you for your input , appreciated.
I understand I'm going to do it in the hard way , I have no problem with that , because the hard way in general is less hard for me than finishing the degree IN MY CASE.
Also of course I was thinking of building a portfolio of projects to show since I would not have "qualifications" except half a degree and accredited courses that I would take mostly online and the idea of stating business/freelance came to my mind but I would like to hear from you or others about that part more in detail and what kind of businesses are open and reasonable to get into or what freelancing areas, etc ..
me focusing on web development for a coming job is mostly driven by practical financial reasons that I can't avoid, but I want to keep my hobby in electronics, I'm interested how you switched from web development to software and embedded because this is an interesting field for me.
OK Louai, it seams that you are very determined and don't want to reconsider your decision of dropping the school, against the overwhelming number of advises that tells you a diploma will be a great advantage. Let's get on topic and see what's to do next.
1. You won't like this, but you DEFINITELY need to drop the attitude that a diploma (and school in general) is shitty. School, in general (statistically speaking) is better than self education. There are exceptions, of course, but usually a diploma tells a lot. If you don't agree with that, no problem, but just keep in mind that despising a diploma is offensive for those who already have one. You don't want to go at a hiring interview with a despising attitude. That will instantly disqualify you, no matter how good you are. Confident, yes, despising to others (even if you feel qualified to despise them), definitely no.
2. Build yourself a portfolio of projects. Create a personal website, or at least a blog where to post your projects and nicely document those projects. In the eyes of your future employer, this will weight as much (if not more) as a diploma. Keep in mind that you are not competing with idiots with a diploma, but with other people that are at least as passionate as you are about electronics (except they have both the passion and the diploma). So, your projects must be outstanding and impressive. I won't advice for a video blog (or a youtube channel) because quality video production is incredibly time consuming.
3. Apply to jobs, then go to the interviews even if the job description is not exactly your dream job. At worst, you will gain experience at passing interviews. You can always refuse the job later if you really don't like it.
4. Be prepared to take some shitty jobs in between, totally unrelated with electronics or programming.
5. An alternative path is to open your own business. This is totally different than engineering in general, different from either SE or EE. You will need a totally different set of skills, like charisma, risk management, being a good leader, and most of all you will need STRONG CONNECTIONS, relations and friends, and first of all, A LOT OF LUCK.
6. Having a successful business is very hard work, and most of the time you won't succeed without an incredibly amount of LUCK and CONNECTIONS. You may want to research for yourself some statistics about how many businesses fail compared with how many manage to just float. Don't even talk about legends like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs! The probability of winning the lottery or being hit by a lighting strike is much bigger than the probability of having a similar success as they did.
7. I wouldn't advise for independent self employment or freelancer. This might help you to pay some bill, but use that only as a safety net. Usually this kind of work is not sustainable in the long run.
So, go out there, be prepared to confront with people that have the same passion and dedication as you have, and hope for the best luck.
Keep a positive attitude at all time, but be realistic, and never, never ever display superiority against "empty diplomas", or against any other people in general, no matter how good you feel you are, or how good you _really_ are when compared with others.
I wish you all the best!
I don't see I need to drop my attitude towards it, I'm being honest with myself and you,
I don't see I need to drop my attitude towards it, I'm being honest with myself and you,
But you really must know when to keep it to yourself vs. when it's acceptable to let it all out.
Just a note about interviews. Many companies use targeted selection. This is completely different than the traditional interview process. It consists of multiple interviews with multiple people (usually 1:1). You will be asked a series of questions each set of which are designed to probe different aspects about your technical skills, interpersonal skills, behaviors etc. One of the most important things about these is to answer them in STAR format (situation, task, action, result). Basically, "I identified this problem, I realized I had to xyz by the end of whenever, so I did these tasks and the result was." The R is critical (and used to be my weak point) - it's the "so what?" part of the answer.
If you can, find out about a given employer's interview process. If they use the STAR format, see if there is anyone who could give you an idea of what to expect. Answering STAR questions is not as simple as it may seem and each interviewer will be looking for very specific keywords/actions in your answers. Each answer should not only contain technical content but also behavioral. These kinds of employers not only want to know what you did but how you did it.
First thank you that was really helpful input.
Regarding the first point you mentioned that I need to drop the attitude that a diploma (and school in general) is shitty, I don't see I need to drop my attitude towards it, I'm being honest with myself and you, this is how I think about it based on lots of thinking and experimenting with it. And I didn't mean to insult people who have the degree when it means something valuable to them, I'm saying this is my opinion about it as many others did also under this post, every one is entitled to his opinion as you said. I don't agree that statistically people with degrees do better than the self educated people, for different reasons but pay attention also that this comparison is not given an equal opportunity for these two categories, because the biased system favors degrees and gives more opportunities for degreed people, and many of those who are good graduate EEs at their work are good DESPITE finishing their degree and not as a result of it.
I say shitty when I'm complaining about this biased system not as a despise to the people who finished their degree, I could have finished it my self and be one of those.
I don't have to have good attitude to everything in the world, actually how can you? when you know that there are lots of nonsense going around in society, politics, corruption, crimes, discrimination , etc. and the same with Education and Jobs, there are shitty things about life. period .
Now the topic if I should mention that in a job interview is wise or not is another discussion, most people hide and polish stuff in their interviews so they can do it also here. but if the person that is employing me is like me then I probably have better chance expressing my real view.
for example if I go for an interview in pay-pal and Peter Thiel is making the interview I probably would have no problem mentioning my view about college because I know it matches his view too.
But you really must know when to keep it to yourself vs. when it's acceptable to let it all out.
Just a note about interviews. Many companies use targeted selection. This is completely different than the traditional interview process. It consists of multiple interviews with multiple people (usually 1:1). You will be asked a series of questions each set of which are designed to probe different aspects about your technical skills, interpersonal skills, behaviors etc. One of the most important things about these is to answer them in STAR format (situation, task, action, result). Basically, "I identified this problem, I realized I had to xyz by the end of whenever, so I did these tasks and the result was." The R is critical (and used to be my weak point) - it's the "so what?" part of the answer.
If you can, find out about a given employer's interview process. If they use the STAR format, see if there is anyone who could give you an idea of what to expect. Answering STAR questions is not as simple as it may seem and each interviewer will be looking for very specific keywords/actions in your answers. Each answer should not only contain technical content but also behavioral. These kinds of employers not only want to know what you did but how you did it.
You say you don't agree with people with degrees statistically doing better than the self educated people. Can you show us any numbers that show this is true?
Than you need to define the word "better"?
Since that's a very vague and subjective word.
Is it better in a sense of, knowledge, practical experience, having a secure job, income, or maybe even happiness?
I don't agree that statistically people with degrees do better than the self educated people, for different reasons but pay attention also that this comparison is not given an equal opportunity for these two categories, because the biased system favors degrees and gives more opportunities for degreed people, and many of those who are good graduate EEs at their work are good DESPITE finishing their degree and not as a result of it.
for example if I go for an interview in pay-pal and Peter Thiel is making the interview I probably would have no problem mentioning my view about college because I know it matches his view too.
But you really must know when to keep it to yourself vs. when it's acceptable to let it all out.
Just a note about interviews. Many companies use targeted selection. This is completely different than the traditional interview process. It consists of multiple interviews with multiple people (usually 1:1). You will be asked a series of questions each set of which are designed to probe different aspects about your technical skills, interpersonal skills, behaviors etc. One of the most important things about these is to answer them in STAR format (situation, task, action, result). Basically, "I identified this problem, I realized I had to xyz by the end of whenever, so I did these tasks and the result was." The R is critical (and used to be my weak point) - it's the "so what?" part of the answer.
If you can, find out about a given employer's interview process. If they use the STAR format, see if there is anyone who could give you an idea of what to expect. Answering STAR questions is not as simple as it may seem and each interviewer will be looking for very specific keywords/actions in your answers. Each answer should not only contain technical content but also behavioral. These kinds of employers not only want to know what you did but how you did it.Every few years there's a new fad in the interviewing business. Numbers show it's all nonsense. People interviewing just a few people and trusting their gut do as well as organisations with convoluted procedures. Unfortunately it's the hoops you will have to jump through if you want to get hired in typically larger organisations. There will obviously be organisations that don't follow the herd, but it tends to be fairly widespread. It certainly makes the potential pool smaller.
Targeted selection has been widely used for at least 2 decades.
Going to call bullshit on that with facts...
https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2014/article/education-level-and-jobs.htm
US Median annual wage 2013:
Postsecondary non-degree award : $35,120
Bachelor’s degree : $68,190
But then the "biased system" is rigged to give more money to people who studied harder
What does a master's degree get you? Well, the median annual wage for all mechanical engineers was $84,190 in 2016. The median represents the halfway point in a salary range from lowest to highest, with the top 10 percent tier earning an impressive $131,350 per year. Specifically, in engineering, more education equals more dollars. Mechanical engineers who have completed a master's program typically will earn 20 percent more throughout their careers than those with only an undergraduate degree.
That's because most of the master's degree professions are social whereas science/tech/engineering are bachelor's degree. If you limit comparison to one discipline you see another picture. e.g., for mechanical engineering:QuoteWhat does a master's degree get you? Well, the median annual wage for all mechanical engineers was $84,190 in 2016. The median represents the halfway point in a salary range from lowest to highest, with the top 10 percent tier earning an impressive $131,350 per year. Specifically, in engineering, more education equals more dollars. Mechanical engineers who have completed a master's program typically will earn 20 percent more throughout their careers than those with only an undergraduate degree.
(Source)
Columbia is a state?
I feel we're getting a bit sidetracked here.
This is not rocket science.
This is not rocket science.
I've often wondered how tired that joke is at SpaceX ... 'actually I think you will find...'