Perhaps you would share with the class rather than jabbing that it's easily found.
Why UPD1001/UPD1002 are not recommended for new designs
Nov 27, 2017
Problem Description:
Microchip launched components UPD1001 and UPD1002 which claim USB Power Delivery support but these products should generally not be used for development of new products due to their obsolescence.
Solution:
UPD1001 and UPD1002 were developed and released in accordance to the USB Power Delivery specification revision 1.0. USB Power Delivery 1.0 defined a methodology to implement serial packet messaging via AC-coupled signaling upon the VBUS conductor on USB Type-A and USB Type-B cables, for the purpose of careful negotiation of power up to 100W (including raising VBUS voltage up to 20V). This methodology also required the utility of new USB Type-A and USB Type-B cables and interconnects.
However, the USB Type-C specification was released shortly after the first USB Power Delivery 1.0 controller products were launched, and USB Power Delivery 1.0 is not supported on USB Type-C. A new USB Power Delivery revision 2.0 specification was created in order to support the USB Type-C cable/connectors which entirely changed the physical layer of the standard and made USB Power Delivery 1.0 products obsolete.
While USB Power Delivery 1.0 controllers can still be found available to purchase, these should not be used for development of new products because the USB Type-A/B cables and connectors which are required to support USB Power Delivery 1.0 are no longer available for purchase, and there is no capacity to interoperate with USB Type-C or USB Power Delivery 2.0 products on the market.
Perhaps you would share with the class rather than jabbing that it's easily found.For me, googling "usb pd specification 1.0" brought this up on the first page of results:
https://caxapa.ru/thumbs/342141/USB_PD_V1_0-20120705-final.pdf
Perhaps you would share with the class rather than jabbing that it's easily found.For me, googling "usb pd specification 1.0" brought this up on the first page of results:
https://caxapa.ru/thumbs/342141/USB_PD_V1_0-20120705-final.pdf
I have an actual technical question related to this.
Consider the situation of EMC testing. When a charger ships with the product, the EMC test is done on the combination of the power supply and the product. If no power supply is shipped, the manufacturer is free to choose anything that is within the nominal specifications.
More than once in EMC testing changing the power supply resulted in the difference between passing and failing, sometimes by a quite large margin.
Therefore, it's likely that as manufacturers continue to not provide a power supply, then they will test with a top-quality "quiet" supply that give them, let's say, 10dB margin in some EMC test. If the top-quality supply sells for $20, while the cheap ones are $2, it's likely that a fair percentage of customers will get the "equivalent" cheap supply. This is already a dynamic with cell phone chargers.
You're quite right. That's a general problem with devices supporting "compatible" hardware. There is a gray area there.What does this mean for EMC testing?
Not sure it will change much.
If the manufacturer sells a device with a charger, then this exact combination has to be tested.
If it doesn't provide a charger, then it can use whatever off-the-shelf charger gives the best results during testing.
That's already the case for a majority of manufacturers offering charging through USB, whether it is micro-USB or USB-C.
I have an actual technical question related to this.
Consider the situation of EMC testing. When a charger ships with the product, the EMC test is done on the combination of the power supply and the product. If no power supply is shipped, the manufacturer is free to choose anything that is within the nominal specifications.
More than once in EMC testing changing the power supply resulted in the difference between passing and failing, sometimes by a quite large margin.
Therefore, it's likely that as manufacturers continue to not provide a power supply, then they will test with a top-quality "quiet" supply that give them, let's say, 10dB margin in some EMC test. If the top-quality supply sells for $20, while the cheap ones are $2, it's likely that a fair percentage of customers will get the "equivalent" cheap supply. This is already a dynamic with cell phone chargers.
You're quite right. That's a general problem with devices supporting "compatible" hardware. There is a gray area there.What does this mean for EMC testing?
Not sure it will change much.
If the manufacturer sells a device with a charger, then this exact combination has to be tested.
If it doesn't provide a charger, then it can use whatever off-the-shelf charger gives the best results during testing.
That's already the case for a majority of manufacturers offering charging through USB, whether it is micro-USB or USB-C.
commercial emc is a piece of cake at these power levels, if I can get a 5V 1A to pass military standards first time then anyone making battery charger circuitry in the phone that cannot pass commercial with any supply is not fit for their job.
I for example have one charger so noisy when I connect it to the phone it just totally messes up the touchscreen (do this to multiple phones)
Perhaps you would share with the class rather than jabbing that it's easily found.For me, googling "usb pd specification 1.0" brought this up on the first page of results:
https://caxapa.ru/thumbs/342141/USB_PD_V1_0-20120705-final.pdfAlso usb-if:
https://www.usb.org/document-library/usb-power-deliveryRight, but that’s for the current PD standard. The issue was finding V1.0, which is no longer on the USB-IF site.
I have an actual technical question related to this.
Consider the situation of EMC testing. When a charger ships with the product, the EMC test is done on the combination of the power supply and the product. If no power supply is shipped, the manufacturer is free to choose anything that is within the nominal specifications.
More than once in EMC testing changing the power supply resulted in the difference between passing and failing, sometimes by a quite large margin.
Therefore, it's likely that as manufacturers continue to not provide a power supply, then they will test with a top-quality "quiet" supply that give them, let's say, 10dB margin in some EMC test. If the top-quality supply sells for $20, while the cheap ones are $2, it's likely that a fair percentage of customers will get the "equivalent" cheap supply. This is already a dynamic with cell phone chargers.
You're quite right. That's a general problem with devices supporting "compatible" hardware. There is a gray area there.What does this mean for EMC testing?
Not sure it will change much.
If the manufacturer sells a device with a charger, then this exact combination has to be tested.
If it doesn't provide a charger, then it can use whatever off-the-shelf charger gives the best results during testing.
That's already the case for a majority of manufacturers offering charging through USB, whether it is micro-USB or USB-C.
commercial emc is a piece of cake at these power levels, if I can get a 5V 1A to pass military standards first time then anyone making battery charger circuitry in the phone that cannot pass commercial with any supply is not fit for their job.There is a reason why chargers are made in Asia. EMC is just printing on the case. No company in US or EU will be allowed to manufacture and sell what they can do. This way distributor can just say it was a bad batch, or any other cheap excuse with no consequences even if something happens.
They commonly omit almost all filtering till it works somehow.
I for example have one charger so noisy when I connect it to the phone it just totally messes up the touchscreen (do this to multiple phones)
I was reffering to the compatibility of the phone and power supply and the phones ability to meet the regulations every time with any USB brick supply, if the USB power supply fails in it's own right then that is nothing to do with the phone. So any properly designed phone will pass EMC regs will pass with any properly designed USB brick. So having to supply a USB brick to meet regs is no excuse for making you buy a USB brick with the phone.
Last time I was in an EMC chamber the first words out of the mouth of the test engineer after we turned it on was: is it on?
I was reffering to the compatibility of the phone and power supply and the phones ability to meet the regulations every time with any USB brick supply, if the USB power supply fails in it's own right then that is nothing to do with the phone. So any properly designed phone will pass EMC regs will pass with any properly designed USB brick. So having to supply a USB brick to meet regs is no excuse for making you buy a USB brick with the phone.
Last time I was in an EMC chamber the first words out of the mouth of the test engineer after we turned it on was: is it on?It should be two separate devices.
Isn't it one of the original purposes of EMC to "guarantee" you can plug the device into the socket, and any phone into any charger?
But you test every device separately
I expect there is some reference USB PD against it phones are tested the same way as is standardized mains for testing
I think this is likely to have similar unintended consequences, the inevitable result of technologically illiterate bureaucrats trying to legislate technology. Device power requirements vary widely, and USB-C is still a mess of different incomplete implementations. I could plug my work macbook into a USB-C charger for a phone and the plug would fit but it wouldn't work. The law requiring devices to be sold with a choice with or without the power adapter just means that in effect the power adapter will be an extra cost accessory rather than something included. I don't think we'll see devices sans charger suddenly dropping in price to account for that. Instead devices that include the charger will just cost more.
[...]
2. Is this really the biggest issue that could be addressed with e-waste?
its just a port, no one is gonna make you make it power distribution compatible
then you just add a fast charge port with optional charger using whatever connector you want, I don't think it says exclusive, just compatible.
2. Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld
videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being
recharged via wired charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or currents higher than 3
amperes or powers higher than 15 watts, shall:
(a) incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC
62680-1-2:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-2:
Common components - USB Power Delivery specification’;
(b) ensure that any additional charging protocol allows the full functionality of the
USB Power Delivery referred to in point (a).
then you just add a fast charge port with optional charger using whatever connector you want, I don't think it says exclusive, just compatible.
I think the idea is that you don't get completely fucked by little bitty pieces of metal