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Don't order from JLCPCB with assembly if you live in america. Sketchy.
Posted by
ibanzroks1
on 20 Aug, 2023 06:36
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Just to let other PCB enthusiasts know that i'm warning anyone that if you're going to try assembly with JLCPCB. Dont! Just don't! I went through possibly the worst representative experience in my entire life. All I felt the whole time was their greed. I had been discussing what we could do to work out their mistake and their just a greedy company. I have heard alot of other stories after this happened from other people online and they all seem to get the same problems with JLCPCB. That jlcpcb doesn't want to give your money back at all costs. They dodged all my questions I ask them so I felt like I was talking to a robot so I felt like they weren't sympathetic about the issue. They also like to make you feel like you should fix it on your end so they don't have to fix anything. I can't even fix them because moisture was already in the boards. I will try to attach a link to my discussion with JLCPCB.
Your just asking for your week to be ruined ordering from these guys. They are based in China so be ready for slow responses.
It's not a very long conversation but hearing them say over and over that they wont do whats right gets draining.
If they have a whole collection of datasheets with unclear information and you do assembly for the first time you might get screwed if you buy from them.
Honestly, you might get screwed if any fluke happens because they will blame you for it.
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#1 Reply
Posted by
racemaniac
on 20 Aug, 2023 08:11
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I find it impressive you manage to write this entire rant without... just telling us what went wrong...
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#2 Reply
Posted by
Shonky
on 20 Aug, 2023 08:19
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Your rant (including the poor spelling and grammar) comes off as somewhat unhinged.
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#3 Reply
Posted by
gjvdheiden
on 20 Aug, 2023 11:57
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I find it impressive you manage to write this entire rant without... just telling us what went wrong...
And this is your first post.
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#4 Reply
Posted by
wraper
on 20 Aug, 2023 12:13
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Frankly for the price you pay their terms saying that you should be asking for baking moisture sensitive LED parts is understandable. They are assembling the parts in highly automated way with no special attention to each order. You actually get more than you pay for. You say they are greedy, however as I understand it was $70 order including everything and they offered $30 coupon. Normally you would have to pay 5-10x of that just in setup costs.
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Honestly, for ESD or moisture sensitive stuff it is better to use their "standard" assembly, which in my experience has had a better luck and it is really not that expensive. I had few issued with the WS2812E assembled with the "economic" service, while 100% reliability with the standard one.
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#6 Reply
Posted by
langwadt
on 20 Aug, 2023 14:26
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Frankly for the price you pay their terms saying that you should be asking for baking moisture sensitive LED parts is understandable. They are assembling the parts in highly automated way with no special attention to each order. You actually get more than you pay for. You say they are greedy, however as I understand it was $70 order including everything and they offered $30 coupon. Normally you would have to pay 5-10x of that just in setup costs.
and that would be after paying 10x just to get the PCBs made
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#7 Reply
Posted by
ibanzroks1
on 20 Aug, 2023 22:37
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Due to limits in package (0201), temperature and other certain conditions, this part is only available for Standard PCBA service. Economic PCBA has been chosen. If you want to place this part, please switch to the Standard PCBA.
* Note: The price for Standard and Economic PCBA are different,
The part that I ordered Doesn't let me do the Eco option.
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#8 Reply
Posted by
ibanzroks1
on 20 Aug, 2023 22:42
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The price I paid total was actually $109.02.
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#9 Reply
Posted by
ibanzroks1
on 20 Aug, 2023 22:46
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I have heard from some sources online that they don't properly store some products.
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#10 Reply
Posted by
AK6DN
on 20 Aug, 2023 22:58
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I have heard from some sources online that they don't properly store some products.
Nothing like unfounded heresay to make your case.
OTOH, I have actually had pcb fab (4 layer) and built (SMT assembly) thru JLCPCB 60 pcs of one design and 50 pcs of another.
On the first assembly, only one board failed after testing, was due to lifted pins on an SMT connector. A little bit of solder touchup and its fixed.
On the second assembly, several boards (3) were damaged during separation from the panelization. It was cosmetic only, did not cause any functional issue.
They offered me a discount coupon on a subsequent assembly run, which I accepted. It more than covered the cost of the three impacted boards.
Being in the USA, the only complaint I have is in the shipping options. Either very slow, and cheap, or very costly, and expensive.
For a small build the shipping cost can match or exceed the cost of the pcb plus assembly. So I have learned to be patient and use slow shipping.
Overall I have absolutely no complaints in using JLCPCB and plan to use them again. So far I have spent in excess of US$500 in total pcb fab and assembly costs.
FYI attached is a picture of the latest board I had built thru JLCPCB.
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#11 Reply
Posted by
Smokey
on 20 Aug, 2023 23:29
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The price I paid total was actually $109.02.
For some perspective, when I get a new assembly build done at my local professional board house, it's about $1100 just in NRE (regardless of the number of boards I want them to assemble).
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#12 Reply
Posted by
fourfathom
on 21 Aug, 2023 03:19
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And I have had JLCPCB assemble close to ten different board designs for me, two-layer and four-layer, qty from five to fifty, complexity from a few passives to about 100 components including controllers, memory, logic, analog, modules, etc. So far there has been a 100% success rate, and on the few occasions where I had to deal with a person at JLCPCB (because of an error or oversight on my part) they were helpful and prompt. I select components from the LCSC catalog, and sometimes have to pre-order a few items that are not in stock. That's been working well. Some jobs are "Economic PCBA" and others are "Standard", but even at the more expensive Standard rate it's still an amazing bargain.
I've also had JLCPCB make dozens of different bare boards for me, again with excellent results.
Of course your mileage may vary.
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#13 Reply
Posted by
lutkeveld
on 21 Aug, 2023 04:29
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I too had good luck with their services on multiple occasions.
It's a miracle they can offer it so cheap and I find their way of loading in the BoM and checking the 3D result quite nice.
It's a pity that an edge-case like this with moisture sensitive components went bad, but I would just take it as a lesson.
I would personally just take the coupon and move on.
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#14 Reply
Posted by
ibanzroks1
on 21 Aug, 2023 05:15
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I have heard from some sources online that they don't properly store some products.
Nothing like unfounded heresay to make your case.
OTOH, I have actually had pcb fab (4 layer) and built (SMT assembly) thru JLCPCB 60 pcs of one design and 50 pcs of another.
On the first assembly, only one board failed after testing, was due to lifted pins on an SMT connector. A little bit of solder touchup and its fixed.
On the second assembly, several boards (3) were damaged during separation from the panelization. It was cosmetic only, did not cause any functional issue.
They offered me a discount coupon on a subsequent assembly run, which I accepted. It more than covered the cost of the three impacted boards.
Being in the USA, the only complaint I have is in the shipping options. Either very slow, and cheap, or very costly, and expensive.
For a small build the shipping cost can match or exceed the cost of the pcb plus assembly. So I have learned to be patient and use slow shipping.
Overall I have absolutely no complaints in using JLCPCB and plan to use them again. So far I have spent in excess of US$500 in total pcb fab and assembly costs.
FYI attached is a picture of the latest board I had built thru JLCPCB.
This is where I found it so...
https://www.reddit.com/r/FastLED/comments/sp2gej/where_can_i_make_custom_pcb_with_ws2812_on/
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#15 Reply
Posted by
AK6DN
on 21 Aug, 2023 05:23
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I have heard from some sources online that they don't properly store some products.
Nothing like unfounded heresay to make your case.
OTOH, I have actually had pcb fab (4 layer) and built (SMT assembly) thru JLCPCB 60 pcs of one design and 50 pcs of another.
On the first assembly, only one board failed after testing, was due to lifted pins on an SMT connector. A little bit of solder touchup and its fixed.
On the second assembly, several boards (3) were damaged during separation from the panelization. It was cosmetic only, did not cause any functional issue.
They offered me a discount coupon on a subsequent assembly run, which I accepted. It more than covered the cost of the three impacted boards.
Being in the USA, the only complaint I have is in the shipping options. Either very slow, and cheap, or very costly, and expensive.
For a small build the shipping cost can match or exceed the cost of the pcb plus assembly. So I have learned to be patient and use slow shipping.
Overall I have absolutely no complaints in using JLCPCB and plan to use them again. So far I have spent in excess of US$500 in total pcb fab and assembly costs.
FYI attached is a picture of the latest board I had built thru JLCPCB.
This is where I found it so...
https://www.reddit.com/r/FastLED/comments/sp2gej/where_can_i_make_custom_pcb_with_ws2812_on/
More relevant:
https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2018/11/12/why-production-lines-need-to-be-careful-with-ws2812b-rgb-led-assembly/Personally, I would not use parts on an assembly at JLCPCB that require special handling. But I tend to be cautious by nature.
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#16 Reply
Posted by
nvmR
on 21 Aug, 2023 07:20
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not usually on the go-china bandwagon, but have always had good experience with them.
Provide some value, give a price comparison to a equal manufacturer stateside, and we'll be glad to use.
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#17 Reply
Posted by
boyddotee
on 23 Aug, 2023 15:17
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We stopped using them after a few issues with poor communications and the fact that there capabilities as listed on there website are not to be trusted.
They claim things like 3.5mil/3.5mil (track/space) but when we tried ordering several 4mil/4mil coils to experiment with inductive sensing they cancelled the order.
We now just use PCBWay for prototypes, its a little more expensive but worth it.
Personally we wouldn't order from either for productions runs.
Chris.
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#18 Reply
Posted by
thm_w
on 23 Aug, 2023 21:26
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#19 Reply
Posted by
nimish
on 06 Nov, 2023 04:44
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#20 Reply
Posted by
Shay
on 26 Nov, 2023 22:36
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It seems like in order to provide cheap assembly, which can be quite an expensive process to setup, they are going for as much automation and volume as possible. So there is not much attention to detail. I can't really blame your side or their side, but I don't understand that argue over 100$. For such a well known company, 100$ copoun shouldn't be something that is worth arguing for.
I'd personally just open a case on PayPal and receive my money, if I felt I deserve it, so no issues here.
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#21 Reply
Posted by
Puteketeke
on 07 Dec, 2023 20:51
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We are sorry that at present collecting the boards for reworking is not supported as our factory is in
China and it may cause some custom clearance problems.
ah ah, I recognize JLC here. They gave me this excuse,
we can go to prison, if the government (customs)
sees it (it was mixing a 4gr plastic 3d print with a pcbs order in my case),
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#22 Reply
Posted by
langwadt
on 07 Dec, 2023 21:06
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We are sorry that at present collecting the boards for reworking is not supported as our factory is in
China and it may cause some custom clearance problems.
ah ah, I recognize JLC here. They gave me this excuse, we can go to prison, if the government (customs) sees it (it was mixing a 4gr plastic 3d print with a pcbs order in my case),
if customs insist that pcbs and other things be declared and shipped separately, what do you suggest they do, ignore it and risk their business?
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#23 Reply
Posted by
chrisb741
on 10 Dec, 2023 17:31
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Only bad for america? then send it to a nearby country and forwarded it to america, problem solved.
I've ordered 2 batches from them, so far no problems.
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#24 Reply
Posted by
helius
on 13 Dec, 2023 02:18
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if customs insist that pcbs and other things be declared and shipped separately, what do you suggest they do, ignore it and risk their business?
I'm not aware of any country that requires "separation". There is space on customs declarations for multiple articles contained in a package without needing to separate them.
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#25 Reply
Posted by
max-bit
on 14 Feb, 2024 05:00
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Very long waiting time for order fulfillment. They took over 2 weeks to make the PCB, and the shipping was also very slow!
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Well, I don't know when your ordered this board, so maybe not relevant, but just note that this is the "bad" time at the moment for ordering from China, due to their holiday, which lasts for quite a long time.
Although I've noticed that PCB assembly @JLCPCB has been relatively slow (compared to a few months ago) lately, even before the holiday. Don't know. Possibly they are overwhelmed with orders. Popularity.
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#27 Reply
Posted by
max-bit
on 14 Feb, 2024 05:58
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Let them get to work, not holidays and holidays...
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#28 Reply
Posted by
quince
on 14 Feb, 2024 06:26
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I know I'm responding to a year-old thread, but this truly explains why so many companies refuse to do business with individuals or in small quantities.
Receiving a review this bad, with this much reach, for a full PCB+assembly order where the buyer is barely coherent in their complaints --- and the only revenue you get (minus shipping) is $109? It's a wonder they don't simply make the minimum order size $1000.
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#29 Reply
Posted by
eTobey
on 29 Feb, 2024 13:39
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I just received my order today (just a PCB). This PCB is nearly flawless, and i was concerned, because i ordered it after they had holidays!
The only things i can complain about, is, that they plugged vias (were not tented), that i did not want to be plugged. Yes the delivery took quite long, but that is not really in their hands. But they offer express delivery!
I had some complains in the past (PCB and 3D printing), but i was always a happy customer afterwards!
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#30 Reply
Posted by
Selectech
on 29 Feb, 2024 18:09
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I've been getting 100's of blank PCBs. several designs, from JLC, all with no issues. Most are 4 layer and go to a local assembler.
Last year started using their assembly services and after several hundred assemblies, 6+ different designs, all worked out really well. 100% yield after test. These are cards with > 700 parts per board: 0402, 0603, 0805, QFN20, QFP48, QFP100, QFP120, TSSOPs ...
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#31 Reply
Posted by
Smokey
on 29 Feb, 2024 22:20
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... The traces were 160 instead 200, but that could actually be a advantage here. ...
Are you saying they reduced a track on your board by 40 mill?
?!!!!
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#32 Reply
Posted by
eTobey
on 01 Mar, 2024 09:08
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Are you saying they reduced a track on your board by 40 mill??!!!!
I am investigating this issue. Might be an KICAD issue.
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#33 Reply
Posted by
HwAoRrDk
on 01 Mar, 2024 21:04
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The only things i can complain about, is, that they plugged vias (were not tented), that i did not want to be plugged.
Was your board made with HASL? I have found smaller diameter vias (e.g. 0.3mm) tend to get filled with solder if they are left untented. It's just an unavoidable side-effect of the HASL process.
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I don't recommend leaving vias not tented in general. Maybe one use case is if you want to use them as test points and don't have enough room for actual test points.
Note that even when tented, larger vias will usually be left at least partially open as the soldermask can't cover them entirely.
And yes, untented vias and HASL will yield solder inside vias. In which case, that still works as test points if that was the initial intent.
You can ask them for confirmation is this is plugged vias or just a byproduct of HASL. It's possible that they indeed plugged vias on this particular batch to optimize their orders at this period. They probably consider plugged vias an "upgrade" compared to non-tented, so if they did that, they probably didn't consider it worth asking if that was ok.
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#35 Reply
Posted by
Smokey
on 01 Mar, 2024 23:05
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I don't recommend leaving vias not tented in general. Maybe one use case is if you want to use them as test points and don't have enough room for actual test points.
Note that even when tented, larger vias will usually be left at least partially open as the soldermask can't cover them entirely.
And yes, untented vias and HASL will yield solder inside vias. In which case, that still works as test points if that was the initial intent.
You can ask them for confirmation is this is plugged vias or just a byproduct of HASL. It's possible that they indeed plugged vias on this particular batch to optimize their orders at this period. They probably consider plugged vias an "upgrade" compared to non-tented, so if they did that, they probably didn't consider it worth asking if that was ok.
The via covering option is on the quote page. Plugged is the default option.
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#36 Reply
Posted by
eTobey
on 02 Mar, 2024 21:04
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I went for gold.
You can ask them for confirmation is this is plugged vias or just a byproduct of HASL. It's possible that they indeed plugged vias on this particular batch to optimize their orders at this period. They probably consider plugged vias an "upgrade" compared to non-tented, so if they did that, they probably didn't consider it worth asking if that was ok.
Yes they really do, because you could not deselect this.
But maybe i did something wrong. Maybe i had to define it in a layer, what i wanted to be plugged. I could not understand what the support tried to explain here.
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I don't recommend leaving vias not tented in general. Maybe one use case is if you want to use them as test points and don't have enough room for actual test points.
Note that even when tented, larger vias will usually be left at least partially open as the soldermask can't cover them entirely.
And yes, untented vias and HASL will yield solder inside vias. In which case, that still works as test points if that was the initial intent.
You can ask them for confirmation is this is plugged vias or just a byproduct of HASL. It's possible that they indeed plugged vias on this particular batch to optimize their orders at this period. They probably consider plugged vias an "upgrade" compared to non-tented, so if they did that, they probably didn't consider it worth asking if that was ok.
The via covering option is on the quote page. Plugged is the default option.
eTobey just mentioned that he used gold (which I'm assuming means ENIG here), but didn't before, unless I missed it.
Turns out that JLCPCB makes plugged vias default when using ENIG finish, but obviously not for HASL finishes. So that was the key information to have.
They don't seem to even offer tented vias for the ENIG finish, so there you go. Untented is grayed out. But you can apparently select untented, and with ENIG, it appears to be the same price as plugged. So, I don't know what happened. Maybe some additional option eTobey chose made untented impossible, I didn't try all options possible. Or maybe, as I mentioned, they hadn't enough orders for ENIG with untented, so they just could not economically do it.
And some more testing seems to indicate that the option page (I selected 4 layers, so again didn't try all combinations) may be buggy as hell. After having selected ENIG as a finish and reverting back to HASL, it becomes impossible to select "tented". I don't know.
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#38 Reply
Posted by
Smokey
on 06 Mar, 2024 05:53
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This has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but it's still sort of amazing.
I placed a JLCPCB order for ten 50x50mm 4 layer boards on March 2nd, and they showed up today... March 5th.
I ordered parts right before I ordered the boards, and Digikey still hasn't even shipped them yet.