I'm wondering if there is some service which would develop my prototype PCB and at the same time be able to solder some standard surface-mount components.
It would be great to be able to get partially assembled board, just to add some specific chips etc.
Any services/companies to suggest for this?
Check out
PCBShopper.com. It's a price-comparison site for PCB manufacturing. You enter your board's specs and it shows you prices and delivery times from up to 25 different manufacturers, including the best-known companies in Europe, Asia, and North America. It also has a price comparison calculator for PCB assembly, and it has user-written reviews of the manufacturers.
Disclosure: I run the site.
- Bob Alexander
PCBShopper.com
The question is how much are you prepared to pay.
PCBCart has such services. The will manufacture your PCB and assemble them too. Price is okayish, definitely cheaper than doing it in the west but not as cheap as dedicated PCBA companies solely doing assembly. Their PCB manufacturing service as we all know is good. But, not sure with the assembly as I only managed to get quotes for now.
It depends on your definition of cheap. I've found Macrofab.com to be quite reasonable and their business model is geared towards what it sounds like you're trying to do.
If you do assembly in China you will face the problem of fake components. There are quite a lot of those out there. Take care of that.
I've had boards assembled in China by Elecrow. They order all my parts from Digi-Key. It means a long wait (Digi-Key ships to China, boards are assembled, Elecrow ships back to the US) but authenticity is not an issue.
- Bob
and dutys in entry to china can be steap.
Which is breaking the law
Which is breaking the law
Scamming Chinese government a fre hundreds, not a big deal. If you've been to China you will know everyone getting off a plane will bring bags and bags of goods purchased abroad, walking through no declaration channel and Chinese boarder control doesn't give it a shit. They only care about repetitive ones like professional buyers. To certain degree, do a math, if law enforcement cost is more than what they can fine you, you can be sure you can get around it in China unless you get yourself under spotlight.
Customs controls in China did get more tight in recent years. You have to put everything on the scanner these days. Not sure what they are looking for. Food for sure, specially meat and fruits.
The import electronics to China got much more difficult since CNY 2017. Too much bureaucracy, but no real proper and common sense procedure.
About the fakes, as long as they use Digikey, Mouser etc. it's fine. Brokers = gambling.
Set of very interesting information exchanged here
thnx all
Is murder ok, if you have a very good chance of not getting caught? Folks don't go down this path of law breaking.
Customs controls in China did get more tight in recent years. You have to put everything on the scanner these days. Not sure what they are looking for. Food for sure, specially meat and fruits.
I think you meant the new travel and postal tax. This applies, but don't worry. There is no way Chinese custom officers will know exactly how much a chip is worth. They will HAVE to trust whatever you put on CN22, unless they manually go to DigiKey to search every of them.
To make things look more genuine, you can also include a fake packing slip from DigiKey. Use F12 to change elements (supported by most browsers), then print that page. Even DigiKey can't tell the difference.
This trick is widely used by buyers (usually students in US and family of H1B workers, which can't legally work in US and receive payment from US entities) who buy computers, phones and luxuries from US and ship to China.
Because US government can't see how much one makes in China, and Chinese government can't go to pursue the exporter in US, usually these buyers can get around untouched while not paying income tax to US and import tax to China.
Customs controls in China did get more tight in recent years. You have to put everything on the scanner these days. Not sure what they are looking for. Food for sure, specially meat and fruits.
I think you meant the new travel and postal tax.
I mean border controls. They are much more tight now. I can handcarry some small stuff, but I would be careful with a whole big reel. A few month ago I was stopped because of one metal part (a 19" front panel) it went into a 5 Minute discussion with the conclusion I should send it to the factory next time. I believe if you get stopped with electronic parts it will be more difficult to talk yourself out.
I use SF Express a lot. They will refuse any electronic parts into China. My vacuum solder iron was defect and I wanted to send it for fixing to Guangzhou - no chance! I took it into China and sent it from there then.
A Chinese friend forgot her mobile phone in the US - was supposed to by returned courier - and failed. It got stuck in Chinese customs for 3 month. Then they used my address as return address for refused item - and I carried it next time over the border.
So if people say they just send parts in by mail for courier, I have strong doubts. I would rather buy the parts directly in digikey.cn (or whatever company inside China that has a reputation).
I mean border controls. They are much more tight now. I can handcarry some small stuff, but I would be careful with a whole big reel. A few month ago I was stopped because of one metal part (a 19" front panel) it went into a 5 Minute discussion with the conclusion I should send it to the factory next time. I believe if you get stopped with electronic parts it will be more difficult to talk yourself out.
The OP said prototype, so I think it's gonna be in something like small cut tapes.
But yes, you can buy them from Digikey or element14 or Mouser, and they both ship to China.
I uses RightIC as a broker, they buy from distributors and ship to HK, and then reship to mainland, with all proper importing documents.
Then when e14 started do business in China, I use e14, and I then moved to US, but I think now Mouser and DK all operate in China.
BTW, SF is not the best way to ship electronics to China. There are other ones. Don't know what's in HK, but in US, there are a few small carriers operated by private individuals, they have their own channel to ship to China at a very low cost, 50% lower than USPS, and they have their way of moving things across boarder control. They then have domestic partners to reship from airport to final destination.
I would have to take your advice with a grain of salt, as i don't normally put any merit on people who suggest breaking the law
Unenforceable law is not law.
Duh. That is like a child understanding when they are told, "Don't let me catch you doing that again," that the key is to not get caught doing it.
Elecrow and iTead/Seeed studio are both cheap for prototyping and for assembling.
The quality was fine for the projects I did.
(0603 smallest with some packages with smaller pins)
For the PCB, I use PCBShopper and regurarly, it's EasyEDA who has the best price.
The quality of the PCB's is very good and you can also use their free online design PCB.
They answer quickly at any question you have, but I never ask them for soldering components
I am also looking for a reliable service to print and assemble 3x10cm boards, using 0603 packages. Right now I could just order the PCB from elecrow (tried and verified to be just fine) and assemble by hand, but I figured I'll need to automate that process eventually, so it's a good time to wet my feet.
I thought about using elecrow 's service- it seems like a good deal and my specs are hardly advanced. My concerns are:
1. How "clear" does the design need to be for assembly to be smooth? For example, silkscreen is very tightly packed on mine- I have all the design files so I don't care that much (it's a proof of concept prototype), but will that lead to errors on their end?
2. I use very standard CD40xx logic ICs and TL0xx opamps. What kind of price should I expect for ordering and soldering these too? For example, 20-30% more than the mouser price is something common? More? Less?
3. Regarding taxes and import fees, is that something that applies when components enter china for assembly or when the boards exit (or enter my country/EU) for final delivery? Can those fees increase so much that assembly in the west will eventually be more worth it (better quality/speed-price ratio?)?
4. The directions on the elecrow site regarding the files they need are unclear. Do their inhouse engineers/project managers help with converting your eagle (or whatever) design to manufacturable format? Is it charged extra? Is that fee reasonable, in general?
5. Are there any costs that I can get away with when I reorder the exact same board? Like component sourcing fees or whatever?
I've never done this, so I'm quite lost here.
I am also looking for a reliable service to print and assemble 3x10cm boards, using 0603 packages. Right now I could just order the PCB from elecrow (tried and verified to be just fine) and assemble by hand, but I figured I'll need to automate that process eventually, so it's a good time to wet my feet.
I thought about using elecrow 's service- it seems like a good deal and my specs are hardly advanced. My concerns are:
1. How "clear" does the design need to be for assembly to be smooth? For example, silkscreen is very tightly packed on mine- I have all the design files so I don't care that much (it's a proof of concept prototype), but will that lead to errors on their end?
2. I use very standard CD40xx logic ICs and TL0xx opamps. What kind of price should I expect for ordering and soldering these too? For example, 20-30% more than the mouser price is something common? More? Less?
3. Regarding taxes and import fees, is that something that applies when components enter china for assembly or when the boards exit (or enter my country/EU) for final delivery? Can those fees increase so much that assembly in the west will eventually be more worth it (better quality/speed-price ratio?)?
4. The directions on the elecrow site regarding the files they need are unclear. Do their inhouse engineers/project managers help with converting your eagle (or whatever) design to manufacturable format? Is it charged extra? Is that fee reasonable, in general?
5. Are there any costs that I can get away with when I reorder the exact same board? Like component sourcing fees or whatever?
I've never done this, so I'm quite lost here.
for your question, maybe i would be the one , to answer you...
1. as the silkscreen, it is indeed important for the soldering. but actually you can even do not add any screen on the board , for manually placing, which is normal for prototyping production, you can send a soldering guide files, to explain to the soldering man where the componnents is and the direction.
2. as the component price, actually it would be almost the same as digikey/mouser. for mass production, you will find the components price even lower than mouser/digikey, as shenzhen is the most important electronic market in Asia and then can get the components with lower price;
3. you do not need to concern the tax fee when components from US to China, what you will paid to vendor is just the quotation fee; when the package ship to you, some tax fee maybe needed in your local custom...depends on your local policy, but normally the vendor can declare the package value lower to avoid/reduce the tax fee;
there are many many vendors for the prototyping and small batch production , with low price and ensure quality. depends on your projects difficult and the money you prepared:
the seeed is famous but the price high and lead time long, especially for the prototyping; the smart-prototyping is a germany company(as themself declared....)but i do not know if the quality matches the germany quality; and the makerfabs, not so famous but did my projects smart.. they are all fabs for not so-hard projects..if your projects complex and really high request, maybe they all not fit for you...
just throw them the production files for quotation and compares, depends on your project, you will find the most proper one for you with some comparison
there are many many vendors for the prototyping and small batch production , with low price and ensure quality. depends on your projects difficult and the money you prepared:
the seeed is famous but the price high and lead time long, especially for the prototyping; the smart-prototyping is a germany company(as themself declared....)but i do not know if the quality matches the germany quality; and the makerfabs, not so famous but did my projects smart.. they are all fabs for not so-hard projects..if your projects complex and really high request, maybe they all not fit for you...
just throw them the production files for quotation and compares, depends on your project, you will find the most proper one for you with some comparison
So with smart-prototyping, once you submit an order do they review it and adjust the price?
Or do you just upload the gerbers and pay?
Seems allpcb no longer offer anything to do with BGA and I need to find someone else to do it.
Hopefully pcbway will do it as they have done them before without problems.
Cheers
Seems allpcb no longer offer anything to do with BGA and I need to find someone else to do it.
No, they have just dropped the charge for putting BGA pads on a pcb.. And so they should! They will happily make you a pcb with BGA pads on it, provided it fits within their manufacturing tolerances. I need via in pad for my currnet design and that is out of their capablity. but if you have a 1mm BGA and standard vias, then knock yourself out.
there are many many vendors for the prototyping and small batch production , with low price and ensure quality. depends on your projects difficult and the money you prepared:
the seeed is famous but the price high and lead time long, especially for the prototyping; the smart-prototyping is a germany company(as themself declared....)but i do not know if the quality matches the germany quality; and the makerfabs, not so famous but did my projects smart.. they are all fabs for not so-hard projects..if your projects complex and really high request, maybe they all not fit for you...
just throw them the production files for quotation and compares, depends on your project, you will find the most proper one for you with some comparison
So with smart-prototyping, once you submit an order do they review it and adjust the price?
Or do you just upload the gerbers and pay?
Seems allpcb no longer offer anything to do with BGA and I need to find someone else to do it.
Hopefully pcbway will do it as they have done them before without problems.
Cheers
No, for PCBA it is you sending them the related files first, and they make the quote for you and then you make the order. you do not need to make any order or pay money before you make the finally decision based on the price.... personally, i suggest you have a try of makerfabs.
Seems allpcb no longer offer anything to do with BGA and I need to find someone else to do it.
Hopefully pcbway will do it as they have done them before without problems.
No. Allpcb are very happy to do your boards with BGA's on them. They have just droped the silly charging for it.
Currently, i didn't find any option better than pcbway but there is one very small company which accepted my requests even for making soldered prototype andsmall runs like 50 etc.. and not costing me much more than end product would in 1000... But, all my PCBs so far were quite simple, up to 100x100mm and usually modules like ESP12 and some other "modular" transmitters etc...
Other than that, there is company in Bosnia which can make me prototype PCBs in a day and i can have it next day so.. but SMD soldering
is a bottleneck for me. Hate it.
http://tring.ba/Usluge/Prikaz/48-SMT-PCBA-montaza-elektronskih-komponenti(Those guys said they will add some calculator on the web soon, currently they only make products for themselves, so they have free capacities for clients)