Since you are such an expert in law and you seen a company committing a crime as you said. Then as an EU citizen you should report them. I don't claim to have intrinsic knowledge of EU law at all, but you do make such claims.
Not reporting a crime is as bad as committing one, right?
Not reporting a crime is as bad as committing one, right?
I have a question for those here who are voraciously defending and excusing FTDI's actions:
Why have they taken the approach of first bricking chips and then having chips send out erroneous data instead of simply making their driver not work with the clones?
Have you ever installed an updated driver to find the hardware stop working? What’s the first thing you do? Do you rip open your computer or device and check all chips for authenticity? What many people do (and admit it, you would to), is roll-back to the last known working driver, curse the company for making a bad new driver, and never update the driver again. That does nothing to alert anyone to a bad supply chain and makes you think FTDI is bad at writing working drivers.
Not reporting a crime is as bad as committing one, right?
Um no - of course it isn't. Is that what you really believe? If so are you taking down the license plate numbers and reporting every speeder you see on the road? How about every person you see littering? Every person you know who has illegally downloaded pirated software or media?
Been answered in this thread:QuoteHave you ever installed an updated driver to find the hardware stop working? What’s the first thing you do? Do you rip open your computer or device and check all chips for authenticity? What many people do (and admit it, you would to), is roll-back to the last known working driver, curse the company for making a bad new driver, and never update the driver again. That does nothing to alert anyone to a bad supply chain and makes you think FTDI is bad at writing working drivers.
I think there is a differentiation of Crime vs Breaking the Law.
It's getting interesting. Which chips exactly don't have the FTDI name/logo and do use FTDI's USB VID & PID?
Please show me a link or a Farnell/Mouser/RS Components product number.Go back a few pages and read my posts... there's the Supereal SR1107/RD232A (likely the bulk of the clones) and Integral IZ232R (bare die). I also referenced this post from the first FTDIgate.
I followed your links but I couldn't find any real information about those chips like where I can buy them, and where to find
the datasheet. Can you please provide links with some real useful info?
Alright - that is one rational - but it does not answer the question of why they chose to do something that is punitive to the end user.
The answer I think is obvious: - they care more about trying to stop clones than they do about their customers. And yes it IS THEIR customers that they are impacting - because those affected thought they were buying FTDI chips.
As Dave said in the recent Amp Hour show - the onus is on FTDI to develop a technology or other means to make their chips clearly distinct and make the cloners jobs more difficult. (he suggested a holographic type label on the chip as one possible way). They are doing none of that. Instead they have chosen to take the cheap, lazy way out and change their driver in a way that affects the end user. The most this can possibly achieve to decrease clones is to do so by decreasing overall use of any FTDI type chips.
I think there is a differentiation of Crime vs Breaking the Law.Perhaps English is not your first language? A crime is synonymous with breaking the law.
But you were just trolling with your question to Madires weren't you? I don't believe you or any sane person believes that not reporting a crime is just as bad as committing the crime itself.
Here is this irony. You guys are so sure of fdti having commtted a crime, and yih are so sure yiy will prevail.
Yet, you are so afraid of suing fdti. What are you waiting for? Mortgage your house, let go of your job, concentrate on winning a lawsuit vs fdti. Since you are so right and they so wrong, I'm sure your winning will be big.
1) One side believes they should be able to use clones or counterfeit devices even if they are aware of them. 'If it works, it works, who cares if it's not authentic, right?' They are pissed that FTDI is taking their toys away, or that's what if feels like to them. They are using the 'poor end user who has no idea' as an example of why allowing clones to work should be a burden on FTDI.
Personally, I don't care whether they committed a crime or not, that doesn't factor into my judgment of whether someone is a dickhead at all. I never imagined they had done something criminal. They're just dicks.
No that is not it at all. Your completely missing the point - and since it has been presented in numerous ways repeatedly - I'm at a loss as to why...
Given the choice I would happily pay a bit more for devices with a known authentic chip as I'm sure most would.But I don't have that option so my choice is to no longer buy any devices that have "FTDI" chips. It's easy since there are several other good choices.
This kind of discussion always gets so emotional. Nobody would have complained if FTDI would implement their drivers and tools in a way that they only work with their own products. That's their right and if they did so from the very beginning, this whole problem would have never existed.
On the other hand bricking ICs (and thus devices) or potentially damaging devices by sending out garbage is a no-go. Even though admittedly the chances that an identified fake chip doesn't have an FTDI logo is about as unlikely as people being killed or injured by the "non genuine" string, the mere fact that both is not 100% impossible should be more than enough reason never to do such a thing. Obviously nobody of us has the juridical knowledge to judge the legal implications exactly, but it must be clear that even potentially damaging other people's property is nothing you can do without at least expecting to get legal trouble.
To talk in pictures as this was done so many times before in this thread: if someone stole your car, you should call the police, but setting his house on fire would be considered a crime in most civilized countries. Now to make the picture even more accurate, this is like setting the house of someone on fire who bought your stolen car unknowingly. Who could claim this was just or reasonable?
No that is not it at all. Your completely missing the point - and since it has been presented in numerous ways repeatedly - I'm at a loss as to why...
No need to be rude.
I could say the same to you, as you seem to be missing my point even though it's been repeated.
Don't have that option? You don't have an option to buy from trusted dealers? Why? Yes you do. Buy from trusted dealers and if you can test incoming stock, do that too. (which we now can!)
No that is not it at all. Your completely missing the point - and since it has been presented in numerous ways repeatedly - I'm at a loss as to why...No need to be rude. I could say the same to you, as you seem to be missing my point even though it's been repeated.QuoteGiven the choice I would happily pay a bit more for devices with a known authentic chip as I'm sure most would.But I don't have that option so my choice is to no longer buy any devices that have "FTDI" chips. It's easy since there are several other good choices.Don't have that option? You don't have an option to buy from trusted dealers? Why? Yes you do. Buy from trusted dealers and if you can test incoming stock, do that too. (which we now can!)
No that is not it at all. Your completely missing the point - and since it has been presented in numerous ways repeatedly - I'm at a loss as to why...
No need to be rude.I was not being rudeQuoteI could say the same to you, as you seem to be missing my point even though it's been repeated.I have not misrepresented your position as you have done of others.Quote
Don't have that option? You don't have an option to buy from trusted dealers? Why? Yes you do. Buy from trusted dealers and if you can test incoming stock, do that too. (which we now can!)
Once again you're ignoring the issue. I am not manufacturing boards - I am an end user. Please tell me which of these products contain fake chips and which do not. How about these?
As for buying chips. For my projects I usually buy from Digikey - but not always. Some people don't have that option. But more importantly - someone who uses a contract manufacturer may have no control of where the chips in their product comes from. And it's already has been shown that fake chips have infiltrated usually reliable supply chains.
Dont use a suspect channel, its not hard. Digikey and Mouser will happily sell you USB-uart modules and cables.
Please tell me which of these products contain fake chips and which do not. How about these?
If you buy from eBay plug it into your computer and get garbage data, it's because you are using a product with the wrong driver. Complain to your seller, as it's their fault. They don't respond? Then it's your fault from buying from a seller without good support channels.
Dont use a suspect channel, its not hard. Digikey and Mouser will happily sell you USB-uart modules and cables.
So your answer is to buy from the most expensive place possible?
If that is FTDIs answer then once again - it would demonstrate their incompetence and complete disregard for their customers since very few would do that. Why would anyone do that when there are numerous - perfectly functional alternatives available that use other manufacturers chips for much lower prices?
If you think that is the answer, you clearly don't understand the world of the electronics hobbyist. In the real world the answer is to avoid FTDI products as I and many others are doing. How's that gonna work for FTDI?
What's your answer to the designer using a contract manufacturer for their product? Once their large order has been made with a chip that later no longer works - how are they supposed to address that without a large loss to their business? Again - the answer - don't risk it - design with one of the alternatives. How's that good for FTDI?
Free market, so if you like the alternatives so much buy them instead and stop complaining, if you want authentic FTDI parts you need to buy through their channels not your arbitrary choice of lowest cost supplier.
Dont use a suspect channel, its not hard. Digikey and Mouser will happily sell you USB-uart modules and cables.
So your answer is to buy from the most expensive place possible?
If that is FTDIs answer then once again - it would demonstrate their incompetence and complete disregard for their customers since very few would do that. Why would anyone do that when there are numerous - perfectly functional alternatives available that use other manufacturers chips for much lower prices?Free market, so if you like the alternatives so much buy them instead and stop complaining, if you want authentic FTDI parts you need to buy through their channels not your arbitrary choice of lowest cost supplier.