-
xeltek says they use 144 pins in their controller and ELNEC 48
does it matter? what is the best option for general electronic repair? -
I have had nothing but bad experiences with xeltek.
Many of their programming algorithms have long term bugs in them and they keep dropping support for older programmers so you are forced to buy the new programmer if you want support for a new chip.
Elenec are very good with longevity.
Maybe think about the device support you need and see if the programmers mentioned support it. -
thank you for your reply.
I ll go with ELNEC then.
any recommendation?
can I use any adapters? so are they something proprietary?
-
GALEP5
Expensive but will still be worth something when you come to sell it.
-
I ll go with ELNEC then.
any recommendation?
can I use any adapters? so are they something proprietary?
As voltsandjolts just mentioned Galep5, this is good value for money but don't believe the open source BS as you can not add your own devices.
Another good manuf is eeTools, they make the Topmax 2, very long support (I have the Topmax 1, and they only ended support recently after maybe 18 years) but they don't support any where near as many devices as Elnec and xeltek.
Also look at http://www.dataman.com/, these are made by Elnec and are sometimes cheaper if on sale somewhere.
It depends on your budget, but when you say general electronics repair? I think you will struggle to use the benefits of any of the programmers mentioned as they are more development/production type programmers.
Can you elaborate more on what you will be repairing and what parts you expect to encounter?
Re adapters, xeltek is a lot easier/cheaper to buy on ebay, ali, amazon etc, probably all clones.
The Xeltek are easy to make as most are mapped 1:1 whereas the Elnec adapters vary.
I don't know about Galep5 adapters as I don't have one.
Whatever you buy, the most used adapters for arcade video game repairs and general hacking/design and repair for me are SOIC 8 to DIP and TSOP48 to DIP, I have used these many hundreds of times whereas all other adapters were probably only used once or twice. -
thank you for your reply.
And by that you'll guarantee yourself pain in the ass for the time being, if going to program more than one type of IC. Elnec has hundreds of proprietary very expensive adapters. Hell, you even need separate adapters for Atmel atmega and atxmega in the same package. When you will need to program some different IC, almost every time will find that you cannot do it unless shovel 100+ bucks for adapter and wait until it is delivered.
I ll go with ELNEC then. -
thank you for your reply.
And by that you'll guarantee yourself pain in the ass for the time being, if going to program more than one type of IC. Elnec has hundreds of proprietary very expensive adapters. Hell, you even need separate adapters for Atmel atmega and atxmega in the same package. When you will need to program some different IC, almost every time will find that you cannot do it unless shovel a ~hundred bucks for adapter and wait until it is delivered.
I ll go with ELNEC then.
And pretty much the same story for many of these production type do all programmers.
For modern micros, I wouldn't go to the expense of any of these.
Most modern stuff these days is ICSP, Jtag or a variant and not the parallel programming method that these programmers excel at. -
And pretty much the same story for many of these production type do all programmers.
Nope, it's pretty much elnec specific (also sold as Dataman and some other brands) to make tons of different adapters for same IC package. Most of the other stuff use universal adapters in most cases.
EDIT: BTW old elnec programmers could use universal adapters, but newer ones need many proprietary adapters to program the very same ICs -
Hello,
Half of year passed since I made an upgrade on the ELNEC program. I have renounced at the old LabProg 48LV (firstly bought) and I bought the Beeprog 2C from the same producer. I was very disappointed by the acquisition. I expected that the new product will continue the job done by the old one without new charges. I was surpised to find out that in order to access a memory type whcic has 10-15 years i have to buy an specialized adaptor which cost about 10-20% of the program. Moreover, for a lot of integrated circuits you have to buy 2 adaptors. Also, for some serial flash with 8 pins you have to buy adaptors- it works witout on Seeprog but you have to buy one with Beeprog 2C.
I belive that the new market policy of ELNEC is not correct towards the clients:
1. when you buy the program you are not aware of the new business strategy;
2. The cost on the new adaptor is very high compared with the program (between 10-30% of the program value).
3. The trend is that for every memory you need to buy special adapter for any software uprgrade; you are surprised to read you can not access the same memory acessed one month before with the same programmer unless you buy a special adapter;
4. acquisition time is very high. for the last adapter i waited 8 weeks . Using the option "Quick!" 2-5 days (real 7-10 days) has much higher costs!
5. lack of a minmum package of specialized adaptors that the programmer can use a "low cost" $ 100;
6. I didn’t find on the ELNEC site a list to present assigned to each adapter the specialized kind of memory that can be accessed, in order to buy the most common adapters instead of the more specialized ones.
Honestly now I'm going to buy me another programmer Although I considered myself a original ELNEC fan for almost 20 years...
The fact is that currently can not use Beeprog 2C than at the level of "ponyprog" without making an investment of a few hundred euros ... (I never allowed him to compare with Hobbist site for the Willem Willem I managed to read some of the memories attached list).
Short list :
M25P10V [SOIC8-150]
AT25DF041A [SOIC8-150]
SST39VF3201 [TSOP48]
AT49LV320 [TSOP48]
AT49LH00B4 [PLCC32]
M50FLW080A [PLCC32]
AM 28/29F200-800 [PSOP44]
I put down a brief list of some circuit that I have not actually been able to access due to lack of adapters, memory that you have read successfully with old Lab Prog using a universal adapter ( the complete list is very long though).
Believe me that was I placed in embarrassing situations with the client for which I had to deny or postpone his service on the same equipment that i serviced one year ago! the client does not understand what kind of upgrade I made so that now i can’t serve him!!!. .. (Admit I made the mistake of quickly selling old Lab Prog).
In the short list you will see that it in not about antique memories (i.e. 2716) or memories for extreme tensions. There are actual memories that are used on the market today but were probably produced avout 10 years ago.
As a personal oppinion, to buy an original ELNEC Beeprog is more of a scam than buying a Chinese clone of the product! If you want to buy the program honestly and correctly you are taken as a fool!
In these conditions if i am asked I can make only negative advertise for ELNEC policy and products.
Costas -
Example:
With original Beeprog programmer you could use universal TSOP48 adapter (DIL48/TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-0065)) for almost all devices in TSOP48 package.
With Beeprog 2 series they started to divide support for different chips in TSOP48 package to different adapters:
1. DIL48/TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm NAND (ord.no. 70-1105)
2. DIL48/TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm NAND-ONFI (ord.no. 70-1106)
3. DIL48/TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm NAND-2 (ord.no. 70-1453)
4. DIL48/TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm NAND-3 (ord.no. 70-3081)
5. Bottom TSOP48 NOR-1 (ord.no. 70-1227) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
6. Bottom TSOP48 NOR-2 (ord.no. 70-1226) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
7. Bottom TSOP48 NOR-3 (ord.no. 70-1225) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
8. Bottom TSOP48 NOR-4 (ord.no. 70-1224) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
9. Bottom TSOP48 NOR-5 (ord.no. 70-1223) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
10. Bottom TSOP48 NOR-6 (ord.no. 70-1222) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
11. Bottom R-TSOP48 NOR-1 (ord.no. 70-1221) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
12. Bottom R-TSOP48 NOR-2 (ord.no. 70-1220) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
13. Bottom R-TSOP48 NOR-3 (ord.no. 70-1219) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
14. Bottom R-TSOP48 NOR-4 (ord.no. 70-1218) + Top TSOP48 ZIF 18.4mm (ord.no. 70-1228)
With Beeprog you had to buy ONE universal adapter and you were able to support all chips in TSOP 48 package, while you need FOURTEEN adapters for the same task with Beeprog 2 !!!! -
so how low does your device voltage need to go?
and how many pins do you need?
-
So if this is the state of play with the new Beeprog 2 then I can NOT recommend it, I personally would not buy 14 adapters for the same package.With Beeprog you had to buy ONE universal adapter and you were able to support all chips in TSOP 48 package, while you need FOURTEEN adapters for the same task with Beeprog 2 !!!!
My good word of mouth came from using the Beeprog, not the Beeprog 2.
It looks like this universal programmer space has turned to crap out of sheer greed.
I understand it takes enormous time (therefore money) to develop and test the algorithms for all the ICs but they are now using the disposable printer model where the consumables end up costing more than the printer itself.
Maybe it's time for an open source universal device programmer project on the scale of the Xeltek, Elnec etc where hundreds of people are developing and testing algorithms so that the cost is not bundled with the hardware.
The actual hardware is only worth a couple of hundred dollars and it's the software, algorithms and support that inflate the cost to $2k in some cases. -
What do people think of the Batronix BX48 Batego II? Spec-wise it looks at least as good, if not better, as the Elnec BeeProg2 but it's considerably cheaper and uses generic adapters (see comparison although this may be biased).
-
What do people think of the Batronix BX48 Batego II? Spec-wise it looks at least as good, if not better, as the Elnec BeeProg2 but it's considerably cheaper and uses generic adapters (see comparison although this may be biased).
I would not advise it. Count of supported ICs is their amazing invention. They inflate it by 5+ times by listing every single IC temperature grade and similar suffixes
. If comparing real IC support list, it's pretty poor compared with others.
-
I have had nothing but bad experiences with xeltek.
Many of their programming algorithms have long term bugs in them and they keep dropping support for older programmers so you are forced to buy the new programmer if you want support for a new chip.
Elenec are very good with longevity.
Maybe think about the device support you need and see if the programmers mentioned support it.
I feel the same about xeltek. We used a stand alone production programmer for atmel chips. You have to go through hoops to make it work and it did not even work out of the box. It needed custom software to make it work and even then it does not work. -
Usava um TL866cs e um smartprog2(Elnec) como nenhum dos dois programava as SPI 1.8 decidi então comprar Beeprog2, é um excelente equipamento, mas infelizmente adaptadores universais não funciona nele, ou seja tem que comprar os adaptadores do próprio fabricante e não são baratos.
I used a TL866cs and a smartprog2 (Elnec) as neither of them was programming the SPI 1.8 I decided to buy Beeprog2, it's an excellent device, but unfortunately universal adapters do not work on it, that is, you have to buy the adapters from the manufacturer itself and they are not cheap. -
you can buy a cheap 1.8v SPI adapter on ebay and use a 3.3v programmer.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191899183629
-
you can buy a cheap 1.8v SPI adapter on ebay and use a 3.3v programmer.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191899183629
I bought this adapter, but the SPI's are great they demand great speeds of recording and I started to have errors in the recording, -
slow your programmer down then.
-
I use an older Xeltek Superpro 3000U.
USB but requires windows XP (maybe win7 32bits). Works in a vmware VM.
I use it only with older chips, but I have successfully programmed GALs, PALCE, MACH211, ALTERA 7000 and 3000A CPLDs and SST 39SF0x0 Flash chips. Last software revision is from 2011.
Software works well and the programmer is speedy and responsive.
I have also used a very cheap Genius G540 from eBay for GALs and 39SF0x0 flashes and it worked. Slower than the Xeltek, very poor software, few devices supported, but it did the job for the supported chips I had. -
"I use an older Xeltek Superpro 3000U."
still one of the best programmers -
“ Xeltek has too many models and device updates are not consistent on older models.”
There are 300+ IC Manufacturers producing new programmable chips every year. Speed, voltage/current, and programming characteristics change often. In order to be able to accommodate the new chips, it is necessary to update the programmer hardware also. Superpro3000U was a very popular model and loved by many. But, it could no longer support new chips, thus had to pass the baton to Superpro6100 and Superpro7500 plus a number of In-System Programmers. Supporting old programmers have time limit just like any other product. You couldn’t ask Iphone5 to be updated to operate like Iphone8.
“Chinese clone”: Xeltek Superpro model programmers are popular worldwide, and there are Chinese clones spreading around. Don’t buy them because you are buying an unknow quality and with no support possibility when you need it the most.
-
Funny, I inherited an old Xeltek programmer, the whole box, the programmer attachment, the proprietary parallel port ISA card, driver diskette (5-1/4"), manual and original sales slip ($800 in the early 90s, I think it was?). Don't have a working drive for that, but they have old software on their website, which dropped in just fine and works. I did an EPROM read and copy just for S&Gs, seems to work.
This has essentially no relevance to modern products, I just wanted to brag(?) about my vintage computing hardware...
We now resume your ordinary thread...
Tim -
Well, Xeltek used to make/brand a bunch of stuff. I had a parallel port Rom Master II in the early 90s, and have a vague recollection of it being a rebrand of something else. Very basic, horrible software (required DOS (!!!) if memory serves), but it did what I needed: windowed EPROMs and some very basic CPLDs (in PLCC packages no less!). I don't think it did anything the TL866 doesn't do, or that I can't whip up a simple adapter board for in half an hour (and have from OSHPark in a week, for what $20 for three, rush job). Not to mention dumb SMD pin adapters that can be had on eBay for a pittance. I don't even have a UV eraser anymore as the first thing I'd do would be to replace the windowed EPROM with an equivalent EEPROM (or NOR flash, or FRAM) anyway. Basic needs. Like blue mentioned if it's modern and doesn't support ICSP, F it.
-
What do people think of the Batronix BX48 Batego II? Spec-wise it looks at least as good, if not better, as the Elnec BeeProg2 but it's considerably cheaper and uses generic adapters (see comparison although this may be biased).
I got that one because of the price, the features and the linux support. Can't complain, works fine. I use it mostly for old EPROMs, EEPROMs and some MCUs.