The only liquid metal I know is mercury.
The definition of liquid metal is "mercury". The rest have a standard solid state and do not classify as liquid metals.
Did any of you watch the video? This is about batteries which could be used for renewable energy, electric vehicles, and other energy stoarage applications. The folks at MIT have been working on this for yearrs and should have something in 2020.
You folks are are all interested in renewable, aren’t you?
Grid storage systems using these kind of batteries are already available.
Who else feels like saying loudly,,
When i can go on your webstore and order 10 liquid metal batteries then we will talk, not before.
I have seen a number of his videos before, I feel that heat loss and heat induced corrosion is a big problem
I did some back of envelop calculations, to keep the molten battery active @600C. assume 8 boxes of 1m cube with 12inch glasswool equiv insulation. his molten salt battery MAY leak heat at a rate of 4kW (2 foot insulation maybe 2kW? not 100% sure, but something close I think). A lithium 1MWh size maybe with 5% leak per 30 days works out to 0.07kWh loss. If I rely on web numbers again, SLA deep cylers if assumed to have 15% self discharge, this only works out to 0.21kWh loss rate. not sure power consumption of battery management, but I do not think they are in kW rates. I have many unknowns and used many assumptions here, and one more to add is the self leakage of the molten salt at 600C operating temp, that loss adds to the heat loss.
edit : his recent video suggests a 1/3 std cargo container sized battery
edit : I wondered, is his concept of battery self discharge so high that it self heats the battery at kW heat rates? a very high current short? otherwise, how will the battery self maintain the heat?
I apologize if these numbers seem too inaccurate, but since we all know the types of insulation material are finite, and it is impossible to stem heat loss, the heat loss ballpark numbers of a few kW may not be too far fetched.
edit : after watching the recent video, it struck me that Sadoway never fails to hurl spit crap and shit at the idea of lithium batteries (and other chemistries as well, like solid polymers), he has no good words for it in nearly every lecture or presentation (except his own molten salts).
in his recent video, he want to take all the money put into gigafactory (producing lithiums) and he will make 2 huge iron foundries. I fail to understand his logic here.
I have seen a number of his videos before, I feel that heat loss and heat induced corrosion is a big problem
I did some back of envelop calculations, to keep the molten battery active @600C. assume 8 boxes of 1m cube with 12inch glasswool equiv insulation. his molten salt battery MAY leak heat at a rate of 4kW (2 foot insulation maybe 2kW? not 100% sure, but something close I think). A lithium 1MWh size maybe with 5% leak per 30 days works out to 0.07kWh loss. If I rely on web numbers again, SLA deep cylers if assumed to have 15% self discharge, this only works out to 0.21kWh loss rate. not sure power consumption of battery management, but I do not think they are in kW rates. I have many unknowns and used many assumptions here, and one more to add is the self leakage of the molten salt at 600C operating temp, that loss adds to the heat loss.
edit : his recent video suggests a 1/3 std cargo container sized battery
edit : I wondered, is his concept of battery self discharge so high that it self heats the battery at kW heat rates? a very high current short? otherwise, how will the battery self maintain the heat?
I apologize if these numbers seem too inaccurate, but since we all know the types of insulation material are finite, and it is impossible to stem heat loss, the heat loss ballpark numbers of a few kW may not be too far fetched.
edit : after watching the recent video, it struck me that Sadoway never fails to hurl spit crap and shit at the idea of lithium batteries (and other chemistries as well, like solid polymers), he has no good words for it in nearly every lecture or presentation (except his own molten salts).
in his recent video, he want to take all the money put into gigafactory (producing lithiums) and he will make 2 huge iron foundries. I fail to understand his logic here.
edit : I wondered, is his concept of battery self discharge so high that it self heats the battery at kW heat rates? a very high current short? otherwise, how will the battery self maintain the heat?
Good reply, you bring up some interesting points which is the purpose of the post. I think he mentioned they would have something in 2020 which is next year.That;s less than one year but not more than two years from now. It would be interesting to see if Gates and others will give him money if he needs it.
gates is already a backer iirc, sadoways molten salt business is called "ambri". sadoway is the key patent owner iirc, I think it is the key reason why he keep on talking bad about other batteries. but now if you are an investor and you tell them the batteries run at 410C - 800C, I think they will just turn away and not even hear the full specs. I think in desperation, sadoway develop a 410C molten salt iteration that uses lithium and lead. hmmmmm lithium? no how can it be ? lithium bad ! sodium good ! but really I dont know, I think he is desperate, cos just simply lithium titanates can do 20k to 30k cycles, trashy china lithium titanates could make his molten salt batt look bad.
Mr chu from dept of energy is very interested, because, in missile systems that sit long and dormant, molten salt when cold do not degrade (or so it seems? maybe slower corrosion?). this is also the reason why, ARPA-E granted US$7m to sadoway in 2009 for research? maybe? not sure too, but it seems to connect logically. but in order to grow in business, ah damn, elon musk power wall is in the way ! damn you power wall !At 25% round trip efficiencies you've got lots of spare heat energy, 333W per kW is a lot of heat and once it's up to the proper operating T you only need to keep it there (to compensate insulation losses). I would not be surprised if in reality at the end it needed some sort of refrigeration.
the 2018 pdf paper about the 410C lithium lead molten salt says the round trip is around 71%
At 25% round trip efficiencies you've got lots of spare heat energy, 333W per kW is a lot of heat and once it's up to the proper operating T you only need to keep it there (to compensate insulation losses). I would not be surprised if in reality at the end it needed some sort of refrigeration.
the 2018 pdf paper about the 410C lithium lead molten salt says the round trip is around 71%. but again, the entire paper did not say if the heating energy is included or was not :/. a 2015 diagram shows a representative box, insulation and external heaters. in all of the papers I have seen, none of them, said the battery will power the heater. they always say, the battery is heated in stages, then finally operated at temperature x. not a word on cooling too or as much as I could recall. what is most interesting is, there is 2 or 3, 200- 300 page pdf about the economics of operating it (and why it is cheaper than other cells)
At 25% round trip efficiencies you've got lots of spare heat energy, 333W per kW is a lot of heat and once it's up to the proper operating T you only need to keep it there (to compensate insulation losses). I would not be surprised if in reality at the end it needed some sort of refrigeration.
the 2018 pdf paper about the 410C lithium lead molten salt says the round trip is around 71%. but again, the entire paper did not say if the heating energy is included or was not :/. a 2015 diagram shows a representative box, insulation and external heaters. in all of the papers I have seen, none of them, said the battery will power the heater. they always say, the battery is heated in stages, then finally operated at temperature x. not a word on cooling too or as much as I could recall. what is most interesting is, there is 2 or 3, 200- 300 page pdf about the economics of operating it (and why it is cheaper than other cells)
He (sort of) explains it in the video IIRC, 3 kWh is a lot of heat, for every 10 kWh.