A 1KW PA with 1KW reflected power?
Why should the reflected power be half? I'm confused, RF PA design is one of my areas of expertise and I have no idea what you are on about.
They are also very very difficult things to design well. Has this recently developed a fault or has it always had this issue?
Why should the reflected power be half? I'm confused, RF PA design is one of my areas of expertise and I have no idea what you are on about.
They are also very very difficult things to design well. Has this recently developed a fault or has it always had this issue?
Sorry for any incorrect information. I am not the tech who is working/usually works on this gear so I am only going by what I have been told (by a recently finished trainee)
If at full power, the reflected power is 1kW, then at half power the reflected would be 500W?
I believe it was returned from service to be surveyed, which is when the fault was discovered. Beforehand I can't say how it performed sorry.
The amp is running into a dummy load, the return loss at the aforementioned frequency range is around 20dB, typical for this unit is 40dB.
Would a bad load only effect certain frequencies though?
I'm pretty sure that the dummy load is the same one that is always used for this gear, i.e., it's rigged up in the test rack setup.
the reflected power should obviously be half of a 1kW; 500W.
A RF PA is causing some grief at work. All frequencies from low range (can't recall of the top of my head sorry) up until ~27MHz give a reflected power reading of 1kW, which meets the specs (tolerance of 50W).
Once you go above this frequency the power starts to drop by a few 100W.
A RF PA is causing some grief at work. All frequencies from low range (can't recall of the top of my head sorry) up until ~27MHz give a reflected power reading of 1kW, which meets the specs (tolerance of 50W).
Are you using a Bird model 43 wattmeter to make these measurements? If so, are you using the correct plug-in for the frequency/power range? Are you sure the dummy load is flat across the frequency range of interest (verify by measuring forward and reflected power with the Bird). If you aren't using a Bird and a good dummy load then you can't really trust any of your measurements.
Also, as evidenced by the confusion in the other replies, you are using the wrong terminology here: reflected power is the power that is not absorbed by the load and which reflects (ahem!) back to the source. When operating an RF amp into a dummy load with the correct impedance value (usually 50 or 75 ohms) the reflected power should be close to 0W (ie - VSWR close to 1.0)Once you go above this frequency the power starts to drop by a few 100W.
Given the other (sparse!) details provided it sounds like this is a push-pull MOSFET based final amplifier with broadband transmission line transformers for impedance matching. If so, a decline in power with frequency points to a problem either with the gate biasing network or the drain supply; there is precious little else to go wrong here.
....I've just looked up the specs, and a Bird 43 has an accuracy of +/- 5% full scale and a directivity of 25dB. Compare that with a decent power meter which is +/-3% of reading and 40dB for a measurement grade coupler then I know which option I'd choose. I agree about the dummy load.
....I've just looked up the specs, and a Bird 43 has an accuracy of +/- 5% full scale and a directivity of 25dB. Compare that with a decent power meter which is +/-3% of reading and 40dB for a measurement grade coupler then I know which option I'd choose. I agree about the dummy load.
I don't doubt there are power meters with better specs (on paper, anyway), but the Bird 43 is pretty much the industry standard. Having trust in your measurement (ie - good relative accuracy/consistency) is oftentimes more valuable than absolute/initial accuracy.
...I have spent many of the last twenty years designing state of the art high power amplifiers for a variety of uses and state of the art real time antenna measurement systems. I've never seen a Bird in a design lab....
Are you using a Bird model 43 wattmeter to make these measurements? If so, are you using the correct plug-in for the frequency/power range? Are you sure the dummy load is flat across the frequency range of interest (verify by measuring forward and reflected power with the Bird). If you aren't using a Bird and a good dummy load then you can't really trust any of your measurements.
I have spent many of the last twenty years designing state of the art high power amplifiers for a variety of uses and state of the art real time antenna measurement systems. I've never seen a Bird in a design lab.
...
Basically, don't trust any RF 'professional' who claims/argues that the Bird 43 is some kind of industry standard benchmark for RF power measurement. It most certainly isn't! However, the myths about this meter will go on and on because there is no shortage of gullible hams/owners/techs who 'believe' the folklore/hype about the capabilities of this crude and awful device.
...
Basically, don't trust any RF 'professional' who claims/argues that the Bird 43 is some kind of industry standard benchmark for RF power measurement. It most certainly isn't! However, the myths about this meter will go on and on because there is no shortage of gullible hams/owners/techs who 'believe' the folklore/hype about the capabilities of this crude and awful device.
LOL... fine, the Bird 43 sucks. I last designed an RF power amplifier c. 1997 so probably shouldn't have contributed to this thread. That said, most of you all have wasted your time either dithering over the OP's incorrect use of "reflected power" or my suggestion to use a Bird 43 to make the power measurements. Not helpful at all, in other words. You have a *specific* wattmeter recommendation for the OP to use or are you just here to make ad hominem attacks against me?
...
Basically, don't trust any RF 'professional' who claims/argues that the Bird 43 is some kind of industry standard benchmark for RF power measurement. It most certainly isn't! However, the myths about this meter will go on and on because there is no shortage of gullible hams/owners/techs who 'believe' the folklore/hype about the capabilities of this crude and awful device.
LOL... fine, the Bird 43 sucks. I last designed an RF power amplifier c. 1997 so probably shouldn't have contributed to this thread. That said, most of you all have wasted your time either dithering over the OP's incorrect use of "reflected power" or my suggestion to use a Bird 43 to make the power measurements. Not helpful at all, in other words. You have a *specific* wattmeter recommendation for the OP to use or are you just here to make ad hominem attacks against me?