The Microsoft Store team has started quietly wrapping apps, like EarTrumpet, with some malware-looking .NET executable wrapper (with my app's name of course) chock full of telemetry and other code. They also target netfx 4.7.2 when my app targets netfx 4.6.2, wtf?
When we [Microsoft] build Visual Studio Code, we do exactly this. We clone the vscode repository, we lay down a customized product.json that has Microsoft specific functionality (telemetry, gallery, logo, etc.), and then produce a build that we release under our license.
When you clone and build from the vscode repo, none of these endpoints are configured in the default product.json. Therefore, you generate a “clean” build, without the Microsoft customizations, which is by default licensed under the MIT license
Similar they do with the VScode, the rumor is. They only add the telemetry in the binaries.QuoteWhen we [Microsoft] build Visual Studio Code, we do exactly this. We clone the vscode repository, we lay down a customized product.json that has Microsoft specific functionality (telemetry, gallery, logo, etc.), and then produce a build that we release under our license.
When you clone and build from the vscode repo, none of these endpoints are configured in the default product.json. Therefore, you generate a “clean” build, without the Microsoft customizations, which is by default licensed under the MIT licenseSource: https://vscodium.com/#why-does-this-exist
getting panties in a twist over nothing…
Quotegetting panties in a twist over nothing…
Microsoft forcing telemetry on you is 'getting your panties in a twist'? That only seems innocuous compared to them not limiting it to the Store.
It's interesting to watch how, despite all the complains, people are still addicted to windows.
Reminds me to the apalog of the boiling frog...
Telemetry is fine but Microsoft's approach to telemetry is akin to punching someone in the face and saying afterwards that there's instructions on how to say no in a filing cabinet in the basement of the local library while telling you to accept your face punching, shut up and calling you a peon.
Telemetry is fine
There is no good purpose for telemetry, it is needed only for malicious purposes
Of course corporations want to make believe that their spyware (ahem, "telemetry") is the equivalent of a usability study, but it plainly is nothing of the kind. Collecting statistics—on which buttons are clicked most often—doesn't yield any useful information if there is no experimental control. Data without a control is just worthless junk (see most papers in econ and nutrition for examples).
The UI changes that they justify on the basis of this worthless junk are also, you guessed it, worthless. But everybody already knew that if they are remotely familiar with user interfaces in the pre-2005, and compare to what dreck is pushed out these days. There are other reasons for the widespread UI failure ("responsiveness" and touchscreens are a large component) but reliance on uncontrolled UX data collection is surely a major factor.
There is no good purpose for telemetry, it is needed only for malicious purposesWhat a myopic, hysterical, uninformed, and untrue claim.
There are definitely some uses for telemetry that are absolutely beneficial to the user: crash reports and usability research. Developers use crash reports to figure out what the most common application crashes are, so they can fix them.
Stable software benefits the user.
Some developers use telemetry to figure out how people use their software: which features actually get used the most? How do people access them (toolbars? Menus? Keyboard shortcuts? Right-click menus?) Which commands get used in what combinations? For example, knowing which commands are often followed by “undo” tells you it’s an error-prone feature. Microsoft’s use of usability telemetry has directly resulted in lots of usability improvements, for example the handy little menu that appears after pasting to let you format the pasted data. Knowing which features are used and how can help guide what features get prioritized for development.
Usability benefits the user.
Some developers use telemetry to figure out how people use their software
QuoteSome developers use telemetry to figure out how people use their software
Shouldn't that be done in-house, or at minimum with users that agree to be monitored? Are you happy with your car telling the manufacturer where you went, what speeds you did where, how you used the brakes, your acceleration, where you were looking, how you flash the lights, etc? What time you go to work, the shops, hey - is that the place where Ms Periwinkle's car is parked and it's always 8pm to 10pm?
Of course corporations want to make believe that their spyware (ahem, "telemetry") is the equivalent of a usability study, but it plainly is nothing of the kind. Collecting statistics—on which buttons are clicked most often—doesn't yield any useful information if there is no experimental control. Data without a control is just worthless junk (see most papers in econ and nutrition for examples).
Your reasoning is detached from the outcome.
Yes crash reports and usability reports are good data sources.
Do they benefit the user? That depends on the sausage factory in the middle of the process.
I have never seen an outcome that is user beneficial from a usability study.
I posit that they are run by people who have no idea what they are doing.
As for the other point, my day job for the last couple of years has been running the reliability engineering team for a very large fintech. If you think that a crash dump results in a viable outcome for end users even 5% of the time then you are naive. Most of the time it is just noise. We get thousands of them an hour. And that is considered normal. Even if we do perform a causal analysis on a statistically common one, finding an engineer who can actually understand or solve the problem in a complex distributed system is an uphill battle as well.
The general theme in the thread above is there aren't a lot of people who know what they are doing. They are all making appropriate looking dances though and people who don't know what they are doing look at those and think they might know what they are doing. It's not turtles, but incompetence from the top to the bottom.
And that's why we shouldn't trust, not because the idea is bad, but the competence is bad.
QuoteSome developers use telemetry to figure out how people use their software
Shouldn't that be done in-house, or at minimum with users that agree to be monitored?
Are you happy with your car telling the manufacturer where you went, what speeds you did where, how you used the brakes, your acceleration, where you were looking, how you flash the lights, etc? What time you go to work, the shops, hey - is that the place where Ms Periwinkle's car is parked and it's always 8pm to 10pm?