Yes, but if I go to checkout it calculates about €60 in shipping and handling fees and the ToS say I am responsible for paying the VAT (21%) myself :-/ . You don't think the €480 offer for the Instek in Germany is acceptable?
As RedFantom is unfamiliar with this forum it's probably good to note that member nctnico is a bit of a GW-Instek fan.
...
I own many oscilloscopes including the Rigol DS1054Z which is full upgraded. For $330, it is VERY difficult to beat that kind of functionality. It's probably capable of doing 99% of whatever you need right now, it's 4 channels, and it works. If you're really struggling to afford a fancy scope, save your money and deal with the shortcomings of the DS1054Z.
...
I was very surprised to see 60dB dynamic range on the Keysight at uni because that one also has just an 8-bit ADC. I wonder what trick they pulled there.There is no trick, just very common misunderstandings of what Fourier transforms do to the signal:
https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-001.pdf
I just remember them being a lot cheaper a few months ago. Now they're hard to find and it looks like the price went up. :-/
As RedFantom is unfamiliar with this forum it's probably good to note that member nctnico is a bit of a GW-Instek fan.That is incorrect. GW Instek is a manufacturer which is often overlooked but they have some very decent gear and especially their low end oscilloscopes have several unique features you won't find in that price range. I'm just the voice of the underdog here.
If it comes down to a choice between that and the Siglent for the same money? Most specs are about the same......
If it comes down to a choice between that and the Siglent for the same money? Most specs are about the same......have you been drinking !
50 MHz BW = 100 MHz BW ?
All cheap Chinese/Taiwanese 100MHz/1Gsps scopes are based on HMCAD1511 ADC, which has an ideal SNR rating of 49.8dB. In a real circuit (especially with cost-saving AFE and PLL), you get ~40dB of that.
FFS, that ADC is DESIGNED for cheap scopes.
So getting 35dB spur on FFT actually makes perfect sense.
About the FFT: I was very surprised to see 60dB dynamic range on the Keysight at uni because that one also has just an 8-bit ADC. I wonder what trick they pulled there.
You rejected the Rigol DS1054Z because of its user interface so what's your true priority?
Even if you regret buying it, since you can buy it at academic price, you can easily recover at least 100% your cost by selling it here.
...
There are also Micsig tablet scopes. Portable, decent performance.
The Keysights also don't have the buttons on the right of the screen, so I'm already used to not having those .
I've never seen the AD2 second-hand on the local market
You rejected the Rigol DS1054Z because of its user interface so what's your true priority?If I pay extra for a user interface that I actually enjoy using and responsiveness, that's worth it to me. I understand that the budget scopes are not as capable as the expensive ones, but not separating your UI updating from your data fetching in the software like the Rigol seems to have? No, that's a deal-breaker.
The joined channel controls are not something I think will bother me. The Keysights also don't have the buttons on the right of the screen, so I'm already used to not having those . It feels like choosing the GW Instek and the Siglent will involve some arbitrary factors. I like the look of the Siglent better...
You rejected the Rigol DS1054Z because of its user interface so what's your true priority?If I pay extra for a user interface that I actually enjoy using and responsiveness, that's worth it to me. I understand that the budget scopes are not as capable as the expensive ones, but not separating your UI updating from your data fetching in the software like the Rigol seems to have? No, that's a deal-breaker.
The real question here is: Will the AD2 be able to crunch the projects I have in mind right now and the ideas that I have for future ones? The ones that I currently want to do are definitely possible with the AD2. Some of the ideas I have, though, maybe not... I'll think on it.
I suspect you may be disappointed by any budget offer. Despite the more modern variants are more responsive than the previous Rigol generations, they are not comparable with the Keysight DSOX3k, especially if your screen is busy with measurements, multiple channels, decoding, etc.
In this case, I would perhaps try to find a local rep or a demo unit to play before you buy. I suspect this will be hard to do, but at least you may get a feel before investing money on the product. If you can't do that, carefully watch the many reviews on the web and try to make a judgment call.
Mr. Scram - I did read the whole thread (at the time is was < 1 page). I know RedFantom had a DS1054Z and rejected it but then a lot of the discussion addressed his feeling that the FFT was poor.
2N3055 - I'm with you, buying gear that has some feature you think you may need in the future is usually a waste of money.
RedFantom - I paid $285 US for my DS1054Z from Tequipment.net (after eevblog discount) with free shipping - it was an open-box item that they have from time to time, they said it was a "DS1054Z-B"
Just buy the cheapest scope you can get. Anything will show you a waveform and open your world into electronics.
Spend the rest on other stuff you need.
The AD2 is basically an educational tool, it has some nice DSA features no scope can match, and it's 14 bit converter can be very useful. But apart from that it makes a horrible everyday use scope.
If you are annoyed by the 1054Z and various UI quirks, then the limitations of the AD2 will annoy you more.
Thus an entry level scope with 1M point FFT can have better than 100dB dynamic range in the FFT output (naturally time domain is restricted by ADC, so this is true only for the FFT output). Roughly 60dB comes from the use of FFT.
If averaging is possible this can be even further improved.
Which scope are you looking at that has 1M point FFT? I did some searching around and even the keysight DSOX3000T series only has up to 64k points...
Just buy the cheapest scope you can get. Anything will show you a waveform and open your world into electronics.
Spend the rest on other stuff you need.Mr. EEVblog, thank you for replying. I had not expected that. Consider me humbled.
There are no real proper videos of the Rigol 2000 series, so I have no idea how responsive it is. From your comment, I am deducing that I should avoid it like the plague. I will.
When I got the DS1054Z, I considered whether I could get used to its slowness (not so much its quirks, those I could live with), but I don't think I can. If it cost €250, then maybe. But a device costing €379 should at least not annoy me, no matter how cheap it is when compared to more expensive oscilloscopes. It's too much money for that, at least to me. If it is just fast enough not to be annoying, that is enough.
The AD2 is basically an educational tool, it has some nice DSA features no scope can match, and it's 14 bit converter can be very useful. But apart from that it makes a horrible everyday use scope.
If you are annoyed by the 1054Z and various UI quirks, then the limitations of the AD2 will annoy you more.
I very much disagree with Dave here. It is better to buy the best tool you can afford because it will offer a much better experience and ease of use. Sure you can 'make do' with lesser tools too but at some point that just holds you back from getting actual work done. In the end you want to complete a project and enjoy the path to completion.
I very much disagree with Dave here. It is better to buy the best tool you can afford because it will offer a much better experience and ease of use. Sure you can 'make do' with lesser tools too but at some point that just holds you back from getting actual work done. In the end you want to complete a project and enjoy the path to completion.
That may be true in a workplace but not necessarily correct when your objective is learning.
I develop test equipment for a living but have no test equipment in my lab other than a multimeter and some SDR receivers. I have no problems troubleshooting any boards, even very complex designs with FPGAs. I still see people with $10k worth of equipment that fail to do anything better. Troubleshooting is an art,