Just to update you on my progress...
Keithley released another interim FW version1.6.3c
Last week I installed it on my three Keithley instruments 2450, 2460 and 7510
It seems this has fixed the hanging web interface problem as well now.
An official new FW update should come soon.
Keithley released another interim FW version1.6.3c
It also fixed (I've not tested the web interface yet) the triggering issue reported by
maxwell3e10
It seems this has fixed the hanging web interface problem as well now.
Tested the web interface today, locked it up twice within 3 min each time.
I played a bit with the new FW. The trigger hang-up problem does seem to be solved. Now there is a new problem, some menu items become grayed out. In particular, when Save to USB is grayed out, one cannot save the data and the only way I found to fix it is to restart the instrument, thereby loosing data in the buffer.
Regarding noise, the behavior is the same. I tested another method using a .tsp script:
repeat
dmm.measure.autozero.once()
dmm.measure.read()
until false
This forces the autozero and eliminates the bump in the Allan variance. The only problem is that it is slow, the cycle time is about 20 times PCL setting. But it is still better than normal operation, which again points to the fact that the AZ algorithm is too smart for its own good.
I played more with a .tsp script to force autozero between measurements. Here are the results of an optimized script (attached) that uses four 1 PLC measurements between each forced autozero. This works much better than continuous 10 PLC readings. Still not as good as Keysight 34465A.
Keithley has release a new official FW for the DMM7510 on April 20th 2017
FW v 1.6.3.d.So far it looks good.
Release notes PDF is enclosed
The file is dated Feb 17, 2017, so its probably similar to the interim version c.
I have my new BMM7510 now for 4 hours and it had several blue screens with Frmw 1.6.3d. Also after network connect I lost my touch screen and only could control the unit with the rotary switch. To be honest, for a device >3K euro's and already for 2 years on the market, I think this sucks.
I will ask Farnell tomorrow if I can send it back, this is not workable.
How are those PSU from Keithley? Are the software problems only in the SMU and DMM's?
I have my new BMM7510 now for 4 hours and it had several blue screens with Frmw 1.6.3d.
Could you please post screenshots of the bluescreen text/error message?
I already put it back in the box in order to send it back.
I'm a bit frustrated so I don't have the energy right now to give it another try.
BTW
I think that problem with network connection and that touch screen is easy to reproduce.
I also didn't succeed showing front panel screenshots with that web server, it is always just busy.
I have played with the instrument and new FW installed and found no issues at all so far. No more blue screen for me or freezing situations. For me it works perfectly right now.
But lets wait a few days for the final verdict.
Here is an interesting plot of Dr.diesel's data measuring 731B 10V voltage reference using a custom AZ script that I wrote (lownoise.txt). I compare it to the data that I took earlier using a standard 10PLC measurement of a 10V battery.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/dmm-adc-noise-comparison-testing-project/msg1094322/#msg1094322
One can see that in the time range of 10 to 100 sec the custom AZ script removes the noise bump in the Allan variance. At longer times both measurements are affected by the drift of the voltage references in the meters or by the voltages sources themselves.
This confirms that when measuring a finite voltage the autozero problem of DMM7510 is significant and limits the performance on a time scale of 10 to 100 sec.
They have not attempted to fix this problem with the newest firmware release. To me this problem was obvious within 5 minutes of getting the meter (at first I thought it was defective until I found data from others posted by TiN). Even though the meter meets the specs since there are no specs for longer than 5 PLC, the time domain data look crappy. I have already spent a lot of time on corroborating and diagnosing this problem, but at this point it's probably better to just stick to Keysight meters.
... but at this point it's probably better to just stick to Keysight meters.
This is great info again in your post, thanks.
How does a comparable chart look like from a Keysight meter?
How does a comparable chart look like from a Keysight meter?
I posted earlier a comparison for Keysight 34465A. For finite voltages it does not look great, but I think its because of the voltage reference. I need to get a 34470A for a fair comparison. Or perhaps someone else here has a 34470A and a decent voltage reference.
@HighVoltage
E.g. Are you also using the LAN network connection and Kickstart software?
It freeze my touch screen and causes blue screens if I start using the rotary knob.
Couple quick notes on the latest 1.6.3d FW.
- I'm still regularly locking up the web interface
- This morning when I came in the unit it'self was locked up. Screen was dimmed, it brightened up when I touched it, but no other functions/buttons responded.
Both of the above required an instrument reboot.
Brian from Tek suggested switching from DHCP to Static, which I did prior to the above, so no improvement. So far no comments from them regarding the AZ issue.
If anyone else is seeing issues, including already mentioned ones, please share them here and on the Tek site:
https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=139083
Turns out during all the FW updating my 7510 somehow defaulted to one less digit of precision, but only in SCPI mode, TSP and the display were fine.
Well the good folks at Keithley were kind enough to relay a command (I don't recall this in the manual, but did not verify) that defines the output precision:
:FORMat:ASCii:PRECision 1616 is the max value, which will return 1.000006082692534E+01.
A big thank you to Keithley Tech support.
Nice to know about that command, thanks
Since the last FW update, I had no more issues with my 7510 and I am really happy with it.
The firmware version
v1.6.4c has been released for the 2450, 2460, 2461 SMU and DMM7510
Release Date: Wed, 09/06/2017 - 12:00
I have just updated the FW on both my SMU and they seem to run stable.
https://www.tek.com/source-measure-units/2450-software/2450-firmware-revision-164c-release-notesCritical Fixes DMM7510
Blue Screen Crash when using the navigation knob.
Models affected:
All 7510 models
Symptom:
Steps to reproduce:
1. Power cycle the unit.
2. Press the QUICKSET button.
3. Change the function to Temperature
4. Press the MENU key and navigate to the measure settings screen
5. Change the tranducer to 4-wire RTD
6. Press the HOME key and go back to the home screen
7. Press the navigation knob once and the blue screen occurs.
Resolution: This issue has been corrected.
Any updates to report since v1.6.4c Firmware? Where the BSD crashes addressed? Any improvement to the A/Z noise?
I have been eyeing the DMM7510 for a Christmas gift (to myself). Doing my due diligence and trying to read up on all of the reported experiences.
Last question, how has the display been holding up for those who leave the instrument powered on continuously? Any burn-in, fade, delamination or other issues?
I've not seen a BSD since the last update, however using the web interface will still cause lockups, no AZ improvements.
No screen issues and mine is powered 24-7.
The AZ issue has been clearly documented and reproduced on several units, however Keithley refuses to comment on it, I suspect it will never be addressed. I would encourage you to ask the same questions over at their forum:
https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=139083&sid=1ca6a4715bcd253c04e7750bd83fdf6aAs Keithley does not appear to read here, posting above might help the cause some.
Since I have installed v1.6.4c Firmware, I had no more BSD crashes.
The A/Z noise has not been addressed by Keithley, not even a word of explanation, as far as I know.
The display works perfectly from a viewing and touch perspective, no issues at all.
The DMM7510 is a really nice instrument and besides the A/Z noise, it can be highly recommended.
The ACAL works more stable, compared to the Keysight 34470A
And the instrument reads stable after only 3 min after the cold start.
Nice Christmas present!
I haven't seen a literal BSD, but it still hangs up sometimes with a certain sequence of touchscreen commands requiring a restart.
The DMM7510 is a really nice instrument and besides the A/Z noise, it can be highly recommended.
For one lab-grade DMM , low noise should be one of the key factors, otherwise is than huge shortcoming for 7510.
I'm going for it. It was either a new DMM7510 or a used and questionable 3458a, since I don't "need" the 3458a's 8.5 dig but could use many of the other features the 7510 has, it won. Should be here next Tuesday. Early Christmas gift.