-
Diverse reasons, the main one being that maturity isn't achieved "overnight". With Siglent scopes, I'm talking about the up to 3000 and 5000 series, maturing could be observed and maturity has been reached. That also means and includes practical experience and many details e.g. in, but not limited to production and firmware. But reaching maturity needs time and the experience coming with it.1
Are you under the impression that the 6000 and 7000 series are using a different platform? -
... With scopes up to 3000/5000 series Siglent IMO has had the time, has gained the experience, and has demonstrated the will to go "the extra mile", in short, became a mature player.
.....
Hello,
do I understand correctly that you consider the SDS3000X HD to be fully developed?
Best regards
egonotto
Pretty much yes, although obviously with some reservation because pretty much nobody has properly tested the 3000 HD yet. But looking at what Siglent has shown so far in experience and workmanship with up to 500 or so MHz scopes I see no reason to doubt that that scope will turn out to be a fine and mature scope (modulo some initial firmware issues which however seem to be normal nowadays). So I'd know that an early on bought 3000 is highly likely to not be fully mature, but also that Siglent would iron out any kinks pretty soon (Disclosure: it wouldn't be my main everyday scope, so I could afford to allow for a few months to finally reach full maturity. If that were not the case I'd prefer to wait a bit with the purchase).
Also, but that is not an objective fact but only my opinion, Siglent doesn't seem to follow the "just somehow generate revenue" route, but rather seems to aim for being seen as an 'A' brand, based on what I've seen so far. Also (sorry to Rigol fans) unlike Rigol who seems to bet on (supposedly) fancy ASICs, Siglent seems to focus more on actual quality and reliability (plus, of course, features and gadgets like lots of memory, Bode plots, large-ish screens, etc, but hey, to close up to the recognized big players they must offer some attractive differences).
Friendly regardsDiverse reasons, the main one being that maturity isn't achieved "overnight". With Siglent scopes, I'm talking about the up to 3000 and 5000 series, maturing could be observed and maturity has been reached. That also means and includes practical experience and many details e.g. in, but not limited to production and firmware. But reaching maturity needs time and the experience coming with it.1
Are you under the impression that the 6000 and 7000 series are using a different platform?
There are two major factors wrt the answer to your question, a) what exactly do you mean by "platform"? and b) having some halfway concrete knowledge about those series - so I'll pass for the moment.
But generally speaking I'd be somewhat surprised if those scopes were "just" say a 5000 but with way higher bandwidth (faster frontends, ADCs etc.). AFAIC I also see the rather significant price difference as a clear hint. With a 5Gs/s 500 MHz scope you can get away with a significantly cheaper core (FPGA, processors, memory) than when you design a say 15, 20 or even higher Gs/s 2+ GHz scope.
In fact, but warning, this clearly is speculation territory, I'm wondering why Siglent, who has gained a lot of experience in bringing out new scope series, suddenly seems to have quite some problems with the new HD series. My suspicion, and again is speculation territory, is that something that's considered of major, if not vital importance, unexpectedly "came in between" and disturbed the otherwise well oiled cogs of Siglent's machinery. An ASIC could be such a thing (or some problem with it).
I may be utterly wrong but the way I see it, Siglent has - wrt scopes - decided to serve mainly two market segments, namely quality scopes, roughly speaking to the typical < 1 GHz market, and quality scopes at and in particular above 1 GHz, aiming for industry, research etc that is, a quite different clientele. But it's hard to build say 3 (or even higher) GHz scopes with basically the architecture of say, the 2000 series. For that they highly likely want to have their own ASIC, which to target and design smartly isn't exactly easy. My speculation is that they want a "workhorse" that can handle both "families", the up to 500 or 700 or 800 MHz 12-bit scopes as well as the 8-bit high bandwidth scopes. And to put yourself next to Agilent/[whatever current name], LeCroy brands you need a bloody good and fast core.
Finally one should also not forget that "the west" has terrorized (e.g. all sorts of sanctions) China for a long time. If China wants to not only survive but reach and keep an 'A' class place, basically against all odds, they need roughly equivalent TME. I'll put it this way: they increasingly say "thanks no" to western computers and prefer to build and use their own and I guess that the day they say "thanks no" to western TME brands will come too.
Whatever, I trust that Siglent will stay and actually become even more successful and that the 3000 HD, after a relatively short phase of ironing out initial kinks will be a fine scope.
And yes, there's lots of speculation in what I just wrote and I may be utterly wrong and have to eat my hat.
Friendly regards -
I'm wondering why Siglent, who has gained a lot of experience in bringing out new scope series, suddenly seems to have quite some problems with the new HD series. My suspicion, and again is speculation territory, is that something that's considered of major, if not vital importance, unexpectedly "came in between" and disturbed the otherwise well oiled cogs of Siglent's machinery. An ASIC could be such a thing (or some problem with it).
Finally one should also not forget that "the west" has terrorized (e.g. all sorts of sanctions) China for a long time. If China wants to not only survive but reach and keep an 'A' class place, basically against all odds, they need roughly equivalent TME. I'll put it this way: they increasingly say "thanks no" to western computers and prefer to build and use their own and I guess that the day they say "thanks no" to western TME brands will come too.
Whatever, I trust that Siglent will stay and actually become even more successful and that the 3000 HD, after a relatively short phase of ironing out initial kinks will be a fine scope.
And yes, there's lots of speculation in what I just wrote and I may be utterly wrong and have to eat my hat.
Friendly regards
There are no major bugs in the HD series, only some minor bugs, and already most were fixed. Newer bugs were reported and will be fixed in the next firmware update. This isn't special WRT to Siglent or the HD series; it's simply the way it is when new scopes are released from ANY brand. There is no 80/20 release nonsense. It's more like 98/2, but only because the 2 is generally unknowns.
China has also allegedly made plans to remove western tech brands from government use. This is not particularly relevant, as Siglent is not China; they're a company IN China. Keysight and Tektronix are brands in the USA, not actually the USA. This type of speculation is not relevant, and speculation in general serves little use since facts and data over time exist.
Siglent is already an "A brand" and has proven such with both their release of high quality products, and superior support WRT firmware updates and customer service.
All of their modern scopes are essentially using the same platform (soft/firmware). Obviously there is specific things used for each series to support the hardware differences.
Getting back to the point, you think the 3000 series is well matured, beyond the 7000 series. Well, guess what? The 6000 and 7000 series have been out longer and already received updates and support, and will continue to do so as needed. They're simply more mature. The difference is the price point, and that's why you don't see a lot of demo videos or teardowns. Unless I won the lottery and didn't care, I would not be quick to take apart a $20k scope and void the 3-year warranty. -
KungFuJosh
Or, in other words, I'm clueless and stupid.
Well you have every right to your own view and I respect that. Time will tell if and if so, how wrong I am.
Friendly regards nevertheless -
KungFuJosh
Or, in other words, I'm clueless and stupid.
Well you have every right to your own view and I respect that. Time will tell if and if so, how wrong I am.
Friendly regards nevertheless
I never said anything like that. Nothing that I said was directed at you, or with ill intent. Don't take it personally if somebody doesn't agree with you. You speculated about something, and I disagreed with your speculation and presented information. It's as simple as that. -
I don't get it, why not just keep the scope you seem to be happy with (minus some issues) and instead of shelling out 15k to 20k for another not-perfect scope (aka compromise) rather spend another 3K or so to get a fully working known to be good (no bent boards and/or chassis, etc.) of the model you have? Yes, I know, slow connectivity and storage, etc. but then, is it really worth north of 10k to you to not have those issues anymore? Plus, going the way I'd choose you'd get to keep your current scope as a well known parts box.
That is now plan A. I had recently posted in the LeCroy user group asking about the SN to get a heads up on swapping parts. There was a post recently of a much newer WaveBlunder for well under 2, bare bones. "Working" That would have been ideal. It is very possible that new firmware would improve their stupid calibration algorithm. I have not upgraded mine since acquired. It's been mentioned a few times about upgrading the CPU. I had ditched the old hard drive and increased the memory when it first arrived. CPU according to a past member offers a significant boost. May be an option but that is going to be old used parts.
In general I normally purchase things that are worth it to me and only if I can afford them. This particular scope sees a lot of use and any problems it has eat away at the fun factor.
Assuming I get another reliable WaveBlunder, I still plan to procure a brand new scope. It's a hobby, so not that I have a need for any of it, but I would personally like to see how some of these modern scopes perform. -
I doubt you'll get rid of the calibration. It is something Lecroys do. I'm on the most recent version for my Wavepro 7k series and it auto-calibrates whenever it wants. It seems to be temperature dependant though. So after a while the calibrations are less frequent. Annoying but I don't use the Wavepro as my daily driver scope so I can live with it.
-
I'm fine with running autocal to meet performance. That's no problem. What I have a problem with is it will not autocal without a trigger. I couldn't tell you how many times I have setup to trigger on an infrequent condition and when the event finally happens, rather than showing me some possibly uncal'ed data because it drifted a few degrees, it runs it's calibration. If I am trying to use the scope like this from a cold start, good luck. For my use where I am only typically needing ballparkish numbers, loosing data even if it does not meet the manufactures stated error is never acceptable. They provide me with the option to disable the autocal but it doesn't really turn it off. I am running 7.x.x firmware. Looks like they are up to 8.x.
-
If you need a specific Firmware let me know. Got quite a collection from 6.5 to 8.6 all 32bits.
Sadly, most of them were removed from LeCroy website
I'm looking for 64bits firmware at the moment. If anyone has any I would be interested. -
I doubt you'll get rid of the calibration. It is something Lecroys do. I'm on the most recent version for my Wavepro 7k series and it auto-calibrates whenever it wants. It seems to be temperature dependant though. So after a while the calibrations are less frequent. Annoying but I don't use the Wavepro as my daily driver scope so I can live with it.
On the 7300a you can slow down calibration and disable temperature related calibration. I guess this is not available on all models.
-
If you need a specific Firmware let me know. Got quite a collection from 6.5 to 8.6 all 32bits.
Sadly, most of them were removed from LeCroy website
I'm looking for 64bits firmware at the moment. If anyone has any I would be interested.
Interesting. I had tried to download the latest from LeCroy/Teledyne and of course, they want me to create an account. No big deal, so I follow along. Then it says I need to wait 2-3 days while they figure out if I am worthy of admittance. So I wait and wait and wait.....
I'm fine with the firmware I am running and the only reason I would upgrade is the off chance they improved the autocal. If you have a change log for the WaveBlunder's firmware and they make mention of it, could you please post that here. Not the firmware but the change log.
I'm guessing there could be some sort of legal problem with you distributing their firmware so if I don't have any luck with the proper channels, I'll hit you up with a PM. Big thanks for the offer!
-
On the 7300a you can slow down calibration and disable temperature related calibration. I guess this is not available on all models.
Similar to the WaveBlunder. I leave it on as it does me no good. Autocal on this scope takes maybe 1 - 3 seconds. Basically a life time.
I have been using firmware 7.6.1.1. Guessing this was from 2014, as it appears I archived it. So if you decide to check the change log, it at least gives you a starting point.
-
I unfortunately don't have the change log.
-
No problem. Thanks for checking.
I first posted about this scope in 2015. There was some conversation about the SSD. The Transend has been in there 9 years and counting without a single problem. That's with a fair amount of use.
I thought this is where they had recommended the CPU upgrade.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teledyne-lecroy-waverunner-64xi/
Found it.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-oscilloscope-buy/msg765218/#msg765218 -
I unfortunately don't have the change log.
I found all the release notes on LeCroy website: https://www.teledynelecroy.com/support/techlib/releasenotes.aspx?type=4&cat=1&capid=106&mid=528&smid=659 -
I unfortunately don't have the change log.
I found all the release notes on LeCroy website: https://www.teledynelecroy.com/support/techlib/releasenotes.aspx?type=4&cat=1&capid=106&mid=528&smid=659
ROFLMAO!! I need an account to view the change logs. The Teledyne/LeCroy gods have not deemed me worthy of such privilege. -
AFAIK a 1 GHz and a 2.5 GHz active probe is all they offer so far (and with very little info/details).
You overlooked Siglent's recent inhouse design of 5 GHz differential probes.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/
They are not listed as accessories for any of the lower BW models other than for the current 3&4 GHz SDS7000A range.....later this year to be expanded to include 6&8 GHz models. -
New firmware installed. Appears to run fine. I'll let the scope cool overnight and try it with the autocal disabled.
-
AFAIK a 1 GHz and a 2.5 GHz active probe is all they offer so far (and with very little info/details).
You overlooked Siglent's recent inhouse design of 5 GHz differential probes.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/
They are not listed as accessories for any of the lower BW models other than for the current 3&4 GHz SDS7000A range.....later this year to be expanded to include 6&8 GHz models.
Well, I related to what I could find on Siglent's website. But anyway, good news! Thanks.
ROFLMAO!! I need an account to view the change logs. The Teledyne/LeCroy gods have not deemed me worthy of such privilege.
What's to complain about, you low-life who dared to (AFAIK) never buy TME worth millions of $ from them, and who, to make things worse, dared to "infest" many with a "I like LeCroy" virus?!
I'm an example of your "victims". I always took you to be someone who again and again, intentionally or not, showed a LeCroy scope to be something nice and desirable.
On a more serious note: situations like this one are appalling to me. How a largish corporation dares to clearly not give a flying f_ck about a grown up man/customer, no matter whether direct or indirect, who (AFAIK) never uttered anything in any way unfair about them.
One more reason for us to hope and wait for somewhat equivalent alternatives from Siglent and possibly others. And @Siglent, pay attention! There's an important lesson to learn here. Stay the way you are, continue to listen to customers and to treat them well and fair!
-
AFAIK a 1 GHz and a 2.5 GHz active probe is all they offer so far (and with very little info/details).
You overlooked Siglent's recent inhouse design of 5 GHz differential probes.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/
They are not listed as accessories for any of the lower BW models other than for the current 3&4 GHz SDS7000A range.....later this year to be expanded to include 6&8 GHz models.
Well, I related to what I could find on Siglent's website. But anyway, good news! Thanks.
Dunno which you looked at but just checked the US, EU, HQ and even the Japanese websites and SAP5000D is listed on all of them as an option for SDS7000A models.
Maybe that Antarctic website you're using is a little outdated ? -
AFAIK a 1 GHz and a 2.5 GHz active probe is all they offer so far (and with very little info/details).
You overlooked Siglent's recent inhouse design of 5 GHz differential probes.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/
They are not listed as accessories for any of the lower BW models other than for the current 3&4 GHz SDS7000A range.....later this year to be expanded to include 6&8 GHz models.
Well, I related to what I could find on Siglent's website. But anyway, good news! Thanks.
Dunno which you looked at but just checked the US, EU, HQ and even the Japanese websites and SAP5000D is listed on all of them as an option for SDS7000A models.
Maybe that Antarctic website you're using is a little outdated ?
Nuh, probably the 6000 series site. I was bothered enough by the fact that I couldn't find "probes" in the "products" selection.
Whatever, I'm pleased that I was wrong on that one and that Siglent has more and faster active probes than I thought. -
What's to complain about, you low-life who dared to (AFAIK) never buy TME worth millions of $ from them, and who, to make things worse, dared to "infest" many with a "I like LeCroy" virus?!
I'm an example of your "victims". I always took you to be someone who again and again, intentionally or not, showed a LeCroy scope to be something nice and desirable.
When I bought the first one, there really was nothing brand new with a decent BW and in my price range. I was familiar with the brand and bought a used one. That scope is has many features that you would only find in a high end scope still today. Then again, there are things a cheap modern scope can do that this scope can't. Consider math functions were important for physics. Modern scopes have a lot of digital decoding for example.
We don't appear to do much in the states and guessing the high end market dried up. Companies needed to find some way to be profitable. As they shift their focus to higher volume, lower end test equipment and rebranding, hard to say how it will work out.On a more serious note: situations like this one are appalling to me. How a largish corporation dares to clearly not give a flying f_ck about a grown up man/customer, no matter whether direct or indirect, who (AFAIK) never uttered anything in any way unfair about them.
One more reason for us to hope and wait for somewhat equivalent alternatives from Siglent and possibly others. And @Siglent, pay attention! There's an important lesson to learn here. Stay the way you are, continue to listen to customers and to treat them well and fair!
A few years ago, a member here had provided details on how to defeat the licensing with their older X-Stream software. There were some comments about LeCroy not letting that slide as they still used that software with some of their current products. And they make money on those licenses. I suspect at least some of their reluctance to remain more open was due to this little episode. -
Teledyne is also probably responsable for their current stance. I tried buying a scope from an Official Teledyne/LeCroy store on ebay and they had me fill a form and wanted company number and everything. They ended up cancelling the sale since my application was refused even though I provided everything they asked. Probably easier to buy from them if you are base in the US.
Anyway, I still like their products
-
With the new firmware installed, the autocal behaves the same.
You can turn off the autocal but it is not sticky. Once the scope has been power cycled, it will be enabled. They will store all of the settings as defaults on power down but this function is not included. My guess is customers would bitch about the inaccuracy. They may be some INI or registry setting that would overwrite how the autocal works but I have never seen anything published for it. -
Not unexpected the 5 GHz probes are not listed as an accessory for 2 GHz scopes as the 2.5 GHz active probes cover this range.AFAIK a 1 GHz and a 2.5 GHz active probe is all they offer so far (and with very little info/details).
You overlooked Siglent's recent inhouse design of 5 GHz differential probes.
https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/
They are not listed as accessories for any of the lower BW models other than for the current 3&4 GHz SDS7000A range.....later this year to be expanded to include 6&8 GHz models.
Well, I related to what I could find on Siglent's website. But anyway, good news! Thanks.
Dunno which you looked at but just checked the US, EU, HQ and even the Japanese websites and SAP5000D is listed on all of them as an option for SDS7000A models.
Maybe that Antarctic website you're using is a little outdated ?
Nuh, probably the 6000 series site.With the new firmware installed, the autocal behaves the same.
I'm torn on this one.
You can turn off the autocal but it is not sticky. Once the scope has been power cycled, it will be enabled. They will store all of the settings as defaults on power down but this function is not included. My guess is customers would bitch about the inaccuracy. They may be some INI or registry setting that would overwrite how the autocal works but I have never seen anything published for it.
Like you I wish for total control and anything not required for a quick measurement need have the functionality to be set to OFF and remain this way after reboot.
The more serious user of course knows an instrument needs to get to temp equilibrium before taking precise measurements but to have LeCroy holding their hand seems a little OTT just so they won't get complaints of system performance when the scope is still cold.
Do you have a User definable Default to change this behaviour with a single button press immediately after boot ?