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Not if that ground is disconnected from the rest.Nope. ESD is exactly like lightning. It is a charge which discharges through the path with least resistance.
A short to the equipment's GND is going to be hard to beat. -
Hi siglent, since you are clearly not focussing on the professional market, make your shortcomings a feature. Make buying a siglent scope a multi-stage educational experience. Supply it with a soldering iron and some unpopulated pcb's and parts.
First chapter, you solder a through hole ne555 blinking led together. Next one is to try it with smd parts. When you mastered this you can start filling in the unpopulated parts of the scope.
Now you hopefully have a properly working scope on the hardware level and it's time to move on to software. Make the software open source and give guidelines on how to find the bugs. Students can work together to find these and come up with a solution.
If a student manages to return an actually working piece of measurement equipment you hand out an eev diploma and hire him. -
The mainboard must be completely removed from the chassis for the rework therefore all ground connections are lost.Nope. ESD is exactly like lightning. It is a charge which discharges through the path with least resistance.
A short to the equipment's GND is going to be hard to beat.
ESD precautions are a must. -
Hello,
By using latex gloves one must be able to avoid the problem of electro-static discharges.
If I can get the 2 capacitors I make the modification using my soldering iron on li-ion battery.
I am not paranoid at this point, but short circuit the BNC plug will be a plus.
Diabolo -
By using latex gloves one must be able to avoid the problem of electro-static discharges.
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Hello,
We will talk about it again when I solder the 2 capacitors.
I never took special precautions and it always went well.
I will not dress like a cosmonaut to solder 2 unfortunate capacitors, it's not nitroglycerine! -
Several decades ago I sold self assembled PCs every now and then. Due to space constraints I assembled one PC in a non-ESD safe environment. Almost every part of that PC failed within the warranty period!
Did these PCs employ cheapest crap on mostly yellow-colored boards? I did same briefly and also most of them failed sooner or later. Interesting that best possible components that went to my or my friends machines never failed, despite insane overclocking
PII 300 @ 450 MHz + ATI Rage was all the rage 
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By using latex gloves one must be able to avoid the problem of electro-static discharges.
You can solder the capacitor to the PCB in a bath. Not a joke. Metal bath and water pipes are good for an ESD protection
If I can get the 2 capacitors -
No. Ofcourse not because I (still) don't want to deal with warranty issues so I only used top notch components with a proven track record.Several decades ago I sold self assembled PCs every now and then. Due to space constraints I assembled one PC in a non-ESD safe environment. Almost every part of that PC failed within the warranty period!
Did these PCs employ cheapest crap on mostly yellow-colored boards? -
Hello,
Do not create a psychosis with welding without ESD.
On a laptop, the only time a pro soldered an integrated circuit with a strap, anti-static mat etc ... the component soldered by him never worked.
I replaced i self this integrated circuit even barbaric way without any precautions, and it still works.
Regards -
No. Ofcourse not because I (still) don't want to deal with warranty issues so I only used top notch components with a proven track record.
I did not get to pick what to use
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ESD is not to be underestimated for sure. Several decades ago I sold self assembled PCs every now and then. Due to space constraints I assembled one PC in a non-ESD safe environment. Almost every part of that PC failed within the warranty period!
While I do think ESD is an underestimated problem, you need an extraordinarily static prone environment or amount of bad luck for that to happen. -
Hello,
We will talk about it again when I solder the 2 capacitors.
I never took special precautions and it always went well.
I will not dress like a cosmonaut to solder 2 unfortunate capacitors, it's not nitroglycerine!
You are working with sensitive circuit board. Not only with 2 capacitors. You need handle whole main board. You need disconnect sensitive bus cables. You handle this pcb. First you unistall all for this rework and after then you assemble all back. All time you are handling whole circuit what is ESD sensitive. If you think ESD safe work is some kind of joke this tell only that you dop not have enough experience, knowledge and education. With you words I hope you never go to any serious factory what make ESD sensitive electronics. Of course some can teach you but because of the wrong attitude it may also be useless. Many things seem simpler and more unnecessary, depending on how little you know. Knowledge increases the pain.
Of course this is not rocketr science. Just simple but right methods and follow right rules and practices and all is ok.
Btw, have you never seen ESD damaged capacitor. Or resistor. In some rare cases even PCB itself can damage in some special cases.
3kV is guite low. 50kV is nice. <10V can damage some sensitive components etc etc..
But so or so. Understanding even part of this may tell that ESD things need take seriously if is doing something seriously with electronics. Even when thing feels "simple". It is much more complex than most can imagine.
"Optimization of ESD Protection Methods in Electronics Assembly Based on Process
and Product Specific Risks"
https://tutcris.tut.fi/portal/files/8786851/tamminen_1439.pdf
CISCO ESD training
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/training-events/esd-training-program/how-much-static.html
So lets stop joking about serious things with electronics. I still believe this is not kindergarten. If do not know it can tell. Some peoples here can then kindly teach. Here is lot of also peoples who really have lot of knowledge and experience. It do not cost anything if ask instead of start joking. Difficult is if human do not know and he do not know this. This is - sad.
Damages can avoid using very simple but right things and working practices. Only need know and follow simple rules instead of thoughts and beliefs or "so what" thinking.
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When Dave unmounted 1202X-E, he was concerned about esd ?
Unless I'm mistaken, I have not seen protection of any kind.
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Rest assured, I will still be careful. -
When Dave unmounted 1202X-E, he was concerned about esd ?
Do you see that pale green mat in the background? That used to be blue, but more importantly, is a grounded ESD mat.
Unless I'm mistaken, I have not seen protection of any kind.
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Rest assured, I will still be careful. -
There is a word : "You must do what preacher say , not what him do in the real life"...
Nobody can contest the theory .For an 500uV front-end from a digital scope we must take precautions .
Now I have a question : Soldering of two capacitors is easy to do but what about the warranty seal ?
Siglent will honor the warranty on these scopes ?
rf-loop , tautech can you give us this answer ?
Thank you ! -
Now I have a question : Soldering of two capacitors is easy to do but what about the warranty seal ?
In return a question: Would you if it's not done in an authorised Siglent service centre ?
Siglent will honor the warranty on these scopes ?
Siglent have not made an official statement on this matter so if you're worried about warranty, contact your supplier or one of the Siglent branches.
We have shared the fix, it is up to the owner to choose the method that is best for them.
As mentioned the risks are ESD damage and also damage to the ribbon cables or their connectors, these parts must be worked on with care and the whole process not hurried. -
So , with RMA costs , price of this scope is not so low.
After attempts to minimize auto setup fails by doing firmware reflash followed by selfcalibration , the compensation issue is even worse ...
Keysight has right : "Scrap the Toys, Get a Real Oscilloscope".
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In return a question: Would you if it's not done in an authorised Siglent service centre ?
I was under the impression that it is a sanctioned modification. How can customers with this issue return their oscilloscope for a free repair?
Siglent have not made an official statement on this matter so if you're worried about warranty, contact your supplier or one of the Siglent branches.
We have shared the fix, it is up to the owner to choose the method that is best for them.
As mentioned the risks are ESD damage and also damage to the ribbon cables or their connectors, these parts must be worked on with care and the whole process not hurried. -
So , with RMA costs , price of this scope is not so low.
You mean the scope that comes with crappy probes, which are temparature sensitive, and need to warm up ?
After attempts to minimize auto setup fails by doing firmware reflash followed by selfcalibration , the compensation issue is even worse ...
Keysight has right : "Scrap the Toys, Get a Real Oscilloscope".
Or with the Lelong caps in the PSU
Or with Flash corruption, so you need to send the complete unit back to Keysight ?
Get real, and ignore all the marketing BS from Keysight -
I contacted my supplier, Batronix, and they told me that Siglent is releasing a new motherboard. It will take some time, so they are going to call me back when the situation is clearer.
This must be fixed by Siglent under warranty, any other suggestion would be ridiculous. It's a design/manufacturing error.
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I contacted my supplier, Batronix, and they told me that Siglent is releasing a new motherboard. It will take some time, so they are going to call me back when the situation is clearer.
Strong words.
This must be fixed by Siglent under warranty, any other suggestion would be ridiculous. It's a design/manufacturing error.
Sure it is not a good situation but I ask how does the unit not meet spec ?
It does and therefore is not a warranty issue.
If Siglent choose to rework or replace the mainboard it is in goodwill for their many existing customers. -
I contacted my supplier, Batronix, and they told me that Siglent is releasing a new motherboard. It will take some time, so they are going to call me back when the situation is clearer.
This must be fixed by Siglent under warranty, any other suggestion would be ridiculous. It's a design/manufacturing error.
Please inform us when you get the answer back from Batronix, I was just about to order the scope from them. -
Strong words.
Sure it is not a good situation but I ask how does the unit not meet spec ?
It does and therefore is not a warranty issue.
If Siglent choose to rework or replace the mainboard it is in goodwill for their many existing customers.
It's simple. User manual doesn't specify that x10 probes must be calibrated whenever one changes the vertical scale. So I think it's safe to assume that the calibration will hold. It doesn't? Well, there seems to be a problem in my book.
The question is: is it a design or manufacturing error or not?
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Strong words.
If Siglent declares this to be normal and acceptable behaviour, they won't be considered a serious player for years to come. It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it.
Sure it is not a good situation but I ask how does the unit not meet spec ?
It does and therefore is not a warranty issue.
If Siglent choose to rework or replace the mainboard it is in goodwill for their many existing customers.
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