Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[jemangedeslolos]

On higher range, Rigol use the exact same PCI-e connector as Siglent.

It would be interesting to understand what connector is being used for the MSO exactly. Regular PCIe / Micro-SAS connectors for example have a limit of 30 to 50 mating cycles. Using such a connector wouldn't be a good choice.

Hello ntnico,
I don't know what the exact reference is.
It seems to be a regular 36P PCI-E connector.

Maybe the 50 mating cycle are here to maintain integrity performance at max speed ( > 8Gbps )
You can also separate the probes from the scope without necessarily removing the plug but it's true that 50 mating cycle is not a lot !

[thinkfat]

Bode plot of the same 10MHz low-pass filter, signal input from separate SDG2042X:

[thinkfat]

And this is what proper probing gets you. Q of the filter is a bit high, it seems, there's a visible resonance, but not too bad.


And the FFT of the filter output (into 50\$\Omega\$).

[Martin72]

Hm, where does the peak come from...

[thinkfat]

Hm, where does the peak come from...

The amplitude peak? No idea where it comes from, it should not be there. Something's in resonance here. The filter is designed for 50\$\Omega\$ in and out and if I'm not mistaken, the SDG2042X matches that.

The peak (or rather, discontinuity) in the phase plot is where the phase changes slope at the resonant frequency of the filter.

[drwho9437]

This is not a complaint (given the world situation right now, otherwise it would be) but just a warning for people given the comments that Welectron shipped quickly. Clearly there are complications I ordered 10 days ago and while they charged me for the item ~5 days ago they have not shipped the scope yet. Communication takes 1-2 business days to get a reply, Saelig was faster in replies but I think their backlog of orders quite long if any others in the US are looking to get one of these.

[stafil]

This is not a complaint (given the world situation right now, otherwise it would be) but just a warning for people given the comments that Welectron shipped quickly. Clearly there are complications I ordered 10 days ago and while they charged me for the item ~5 days ago they have not shipped the scope yet. Communication takes 1-2 business days to get a reply, Saelig was faster in replies but I think their backlog of orders quite long if any others in the US are looking to get one of these.

Talk to Marco, he will either give you a good ETA. If you are not happy with it, you can always ask for a refund. I had no problem getting a refund

[Frex]

Hello thinkfat (and others),

and thank you for your Bode plots screen-shoots.
They are very interesting.

I would have few questions about it :
Does we need to use only the internal generator of the scope to use Bode plot features ?
What is the effective dynamic range of the Bode plot ?
For example, if we test low 4 order low-pass filter at 1kHz, what is the attenuation floor the plot
allow to reach far beyond cutoff frequency ? (-60dB ? -80 dB , more ?).
How many points can be used in Bode plot ? (important to see real depth level of narrow notch filter for example).

I have also another question not really related to the Bode plot, does the "blue-pills" allow to unlock
the MSO function ?
I have for now a Rigol  MSO2072A, and i start to think that the SDS2104X Plus would be a nice upgrade...

Thank you all.

Frex

[Martin72]

Hi Frex,

Does we need to use only the internal generator of the scope to use Bode plot features ?

thinkfat did it with an external awg - It must be from siglent too, then it will work.

What is the effective dynamic range of the Bode plot ?

Depends which scaling you use, max 20dB can be choosen, so plot will displaying down to -140dB

How many points can be used in Bode plot ? (important to see real depth level of narrow notch filter for example).

500 Points.

does the "blue-pills" allow to unlock
the MSO function ?

Yes...

[Frex]

OK,

Thank you very much Martin.

Frex

[Elasia]

Just ordered mine from Batronix to import, good service and a nice discount, overall comparable to saelig costs to your door with the normal discount, not as good as what welectron was doing though but they are out of stock.

Everyone else in NA was telling me end of May at the soonest and its on dhl so I'll know if i get tariff slapped right away. The CAN FD decoding sold me on upgrading from my hacked SDS1104X-E so not really concerned if i get tariffed or not as this will greatly help increase my applicable knowledge and just consider it an education cost.. i got another 2 weeks of doing nothing in May thanks to covid so might as well make the best of it.

Plan to get the logic add on but not really impressed its a pcie slot.. dubious but since this will go on my shelf and just sit there so when not in use i suppose i'll just tuck them under it

[jemangedeslolos]

Just ordered mine from Batronix to import, good service and a nice discount, overall comparable to saelig costs to your door with the normal discount, not as good as what welectron was doing though but they are out of stock.

Everyone else in NA was telling me end of May at the soonest and its on dhl so I'll know if i get tariff slapped right away. The CAN FD decoding sold me on upgrading from my hacked SDS1104X-E so not really concerned if i get tariffed or not as this will greatly help increase my applicable knowledge and just consider it an education cost.. i got another 2 weeks of doing nothing in May thanks to covid so might as well make the best of it.

Plan to get the logic add on but not really impressed its a pcie slot.. dubious but since this will go on my shelf and just sit there so when not in use i suppose i'll just tuck them under it

Don't be scared by the pci-e.
I have a good friend of mine who works for a big connector manufacturer and even if I don't know the history of the pci-e, he tells me that usually, connectors are designed for a specific application / specification.
If the specifications require 50 mating cycles, the connector will be tested for 50 mating cycle according to the required performance.
The connector will not be tested on 1000 mating cycle while it may supports them without problem.

I am not saying that this connector will withstand 1000 mating cycle but it will not fall apart after 51 cycles.
This remains a questionable choice, I think there were more suitable alternatives...

[Frex]

Hello,

I have a Rigol MSO2072A that use also PCI-E connector for the LA, and and used it very often
for 4 years now without having encounter any false contact issue.
Besides, I ask me if the Rigol probe is compatible with the Siglent one...

Frex

[tautech]

Hello,

I have a Rigol MSO2072A that use also PCI-E connector for the LA, and and used it very often
for 4 years now without having encounter any false contact issue.
Besides, I ask me if the Rigol probe is compatible with the Siglent one...

Frex

It certainly is PCI-e as this pic connected to a PCI-e socket on an old PC Mobo shows.

As the MSO lead retainer clips engage with the casing, unless Rigol use the same retaining method and surrounding aperture it might not fit. Still the active circuitry in the MSO probe assembly needs to be compatible too or there is a risk of damaging the scope or MSO lead or both ! 

[Martin72]

Agree to this, it MIGHT fit, but you can´t be really sure about and when you damaged something through the trying, your warranty will be lost.
Won´t try this out...

[nctnico]

Don't be scared by the pci-e.
I have a good friend of mine who works for a big connector manufacturer and even if I don't know the history of the pci-e, he tells me that usually, connectors are designed for a specific application / specification.
If the specifications require 50 mating cycles, the connector will be tested for 50 mating cycle according to the required performance.
The connector will not be tested on 1000 mating cycle while it may supports them without problem.

With the precission things are produced nowadays they can control durability quite accurately. For sure the connector won't fall apart after 50 mating cycles but don't expect to get 100 cycles from the connector. My advice would be to leave the MSO pod connected to the oscilloscope; certainly don't connect/disconnect it every day. The bottom line is that a PCIe connector just isn't designed/made to be plugged in regulary.

[tautech]

Agree to this, it MIGHT fit, but you can´t be really sure about and when you damaged something through the trying, your warranty will be lost.
Won´t try this out...

Unless......someone has both scopes and can buzz out the PCI-e socket voltages.

I would not be surprised if the MSO probe set is identical and just rebadged like many of the industry shared current probes are.

[Martin72]

Unless......someone has both scopes and can buzz out the PCI-e socket voltages.

That would be too perfect to come true someday.
Or too expensive.
Or Dave can do it  (BTW, where´s his video….)

[tautech]

Well looky here, 16ch MSO probes from both LeCroy and Tek appear very similar:

LeCroy  Number   T3DSO2000-LS


Tek P6616 and some similar pt#'s


RIGOL RPL2316


I wonder who makes them ?   

Find some cheap busted ones from eBay and dissect/RE them ?

[Electro Fan]

Hello,

I have a Rigol MSO2072A that use also PCI-E connector for the LA, and and used it very often
for 4 years now without having encounter any false contact issue.
Besides, I ask me if the Rigol probe is compatible with the Siglent one...

Frex

Does the Rigol MSO2072A digital channels cable and connector work on the Siglent 2000X Plus?

[Frex]

Hello,

I have ordered yesterday the SDS2104X-Plus to Batronix (not yet the LA probe), hope to have it here in few days.
So, i will have both oscilloscopes for trying. Of course, before to do anything i will check twice if this can be done without risk.
The first condition is that the pods mechanical  input are really same.

Frex

[Electro Fan]

Hello Frex,

Congratulations on the new scope!  Looking forward to learning about the digital cable compatibility and even more to your thoughts on how it compares (very favorably I’m sure) to the MSO2072A.

[Elasia]

I suspect so too after browsing around, I'd wonder if they are even active and its all pass through

You get 40 pins, 8 lines and 12 grounds per side

Should be an easy buzz out if someone wanted to post a pin out of what they have

But... If its not active and really is just a pass through cable... How do you justify hundreds of dollars and not be hosed by the aftermarket?  Only thing that comes to mind is bandwidth specs for high speed but still..

[thinkfat]

There's a project with a cheap replacement logic probe adapter pod for the Rigol MSO series. Maybe it can be retargeted to the SDS2000X+ as well.

PS: It's a replacement for the PLA2216 logic probe, but this one seems quite different to the SPL2016.

[twizla]

SPL2016 logic probes shipped with SDS2000x+ seems very similar to Lecroy posted by tautech, thank you for sharing!

The LA set includes:
1. the PCIe interface cable to 2x 20pin parallel connector (2.54mm raster). All pins on one side of the PCIe are all ground, connected to ground pins on the 20pin connectors (10pin on one side plus 1pin on each end of the other side all grounds). There is 92kOhm serial resistance to be measured between the 8 active pins and and the PCIe active pins.
2. the 20pin parallel connector to single-wire probe cables. All grounds are pass-through, all acive pins have serial resistor 91 Ohm between probe and 20pin connector.
3. a box of probe adapters, same as on tautech photo

I recall someone saying the PCIe adapter use 8x coax ribbon cables. From the PCB photos published here, scope PCB includes LA comparators with threshold voltage adjustment. So it seems, the LA probe is passive only. This was only a quick check, so no warranty. Pls see my SPL2016 photos attached.