Windows 11 is dying....

[m k]

Last Win10 problem I remember is from last year when quick launch lost some functionality.
But that's not actually an OS thing.

Last closer to OS thing I can remember now is corrupting icon cache, it's now gone.
For that I have an explorer restarter from '22.

Crashing OS is practical history.

[asmi]

You can exit Explorer (window shell) without any third-party software. Just google "how to exit explorer in windows 11", and you will get an answer - it's basically a combination of magic keypresses. This is sometimes useful - for example to avoid a restart when you update some shell extension (like Tortoise Git for example) - you can just exit and restart explorer.

[SteveThackery]

You can exit Explorer (window shell) without any third-party software. Just google "how to exit explorer in windows 11", and you will get an answer - it's basically a combination of magic keypresses. This is sometimes useful - for example to avoid a restart when you update some shell extension (like Tortoise Git for example) - you can just exit and restart explorer.

You can kill the explorer.exe process in Task Manager. It will restart automatically.

[soldar]

I don't use Windows but I think the complaint here is that it is MS who keeps changing things, pushing "updates" which break things which no longer work. And users wish MS would leave well enough alone. 

I've seen these videos, but I never actually experienced any of it on any of win machines in my family. I'm not saying it does not happen, I know that with the user base as large as diverse as that of Windows, just about any change will have a pretty good chance to break something for somebody somewhere no matter how much effort you put into QA. What I'm saying it does not seem to affect my systems. Maybe because I usually don't install update immediately as they become available, but wait a bit - kinda like what most companies do

So putting these clickbait videos aside, when was last time a Windows update actually broke something for you on your machine? Not "I heard about it/seen a video/read on a forum", but in your own personal experience? I can't be the only lucky one for whom everything just works for years without any problems whatsoever?

I have not had any problems with Windows in the last decade. Mainly because I have not used Windows in the last decade.

The "it doesn't happen to me so it is not important and could even be non existent" attitude irks me.

I do not have cancer, I have not suffered any terrorist attacks, I have not been shot in Minneapolis. I do not know anybody who has been affected by those things. I guess I must be one of the lucky ones. I guess there is something wrong with people who suffer those things. They probably deserve them.

[SteveThackery]

I have not had any problems with Windows in the last decade. Mainly because I have not used Windows in the last decade.

The "it doesn't happen to me so it is not important and could even be non existent" attitude irks me.

I do not have cancer, I have not suffered any terrorist attacks, I have not been shot in Minneapolis. I do not know anybody who has been affected by those things. I guess I must be one of the lucky ones. I guess there is something wrong with people who suffer those things. They probably deserve them.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Everybody with a working brain cell knows that they are but one data point, which cannot represent the general population. But that does not disqualify them from describing their experience, because sweeping generalisations are EXACTLY what Linux fan boys do all the fucking time: they bang on about security, stability, reliability, blah blah, as if these are widespread problems for Windows users.  And what is so ironic is that most of them haven't a fucking clue what they are talking about because they haven't used Windows in ten or twenty years!

So if you want to make sweeping statements, then it is reasonable for someone swept up to point out that it doesn't include them.

[madires]

So putting these clickbait videos aside, when was last time a Windows update actually broke something for you on your machine?

Remember the WinRE partition size issue (triggered by an update and causing its installation to fail)? I had to manually repartition the disk (Microsoft's published solution) of a Win10 VM. The WinRE partition was originally created by the Win10 setup automatically.

If you're looking for more substantial feedback about update issues please ask people working in corporate IT. They will happily share their experience.

[Cyclotron]

I have not had any problems with Windows in the last decade. Mainly because I have not used Windows in the last decade.

The "it doesn't happen to me so it is not important and could even be non existent" attitude irks me.

I do not have cancer, I have not suffered any terrorist attacks, I have not been shot in Minneapolis. I do not know anybody who has been affected by those things. I guess I must be one of the lucky ones. I guess there is something wrong with people who suffer those things. They probably deserve them.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Everybody with a working brain cell knows that they are but one data point, which cannot represent the general population. But that does not disqualify them from describing their experience, because sweeping generalisations are EXACTLY what Linux fan boys do all the fucking time: they bang on about security, stability, reliability, blah blah, as if these are widespread problems for Windows users.  And what is so ironic is that most of them haven't a fucking clue what they are talking about because they haven't used Windows in ten or twenty years!

So if you want to make sweeping statements, then it is reasonable for someone swept up to point out that it doesn't include them.

I love Linux, use it all the time; a lot of people do. But the fanboy is very different as you describe.

Linux, by CVE count, is the most vulnerable platform on the planet, yet fanboys insist it's more secure. When confronted with that fact, they will say it's because open source allows more CVEs, but then provide no evidence.

It also, in my experience, has regular breaking updates. Every time I turn around lately, I have to recompile the NVIDIA CUDA drivers, for instance. And no Windows user ever heard of "dependency hell."

On the other hand, all of my friends outside of work run Windows, and none of them are "nerds".  Hell, two still run AOL until recently.
I'm their tech support (SIGH), but it is rare that they have any issues.

The last big issue that caused the Windows platform pain was the virus/malware crap, maybe 10 years ago, which MS solved by purchasing and running an AV in the platform because users couldn't be bothered. Apple did the same thing with macOS, though they have regularly claimed macOS doesn't get viruses/malware.

I'm guessing no Linux user needs Anti-Virus or security software because they believe the myths. But Linux is the number one platform for malware, botnets, crypto-jacking, and ransomware. Just type any of these queries into google for instance:
"What is the most compromised OS?"
"what OS suffers the most botnets?"
"what OS suffers the most cryptojacking"

[MrMobodies]

Last Win10 problem I remember is from last year when quick launch lost some functionality.

Big bloated, spaced further apart taskbar with way to add no compact sub menu's (quicklaunch).
Nothing in my favour and all works against me.

When I saw the animated skeleton placeholders in LTSC 2021 plastered over the menu's testing it in 2022 where they'd spike a CPU core as they appear, flash then disappear and that stupid app store I considered it lost it's useful functionality to me.

Now I think it's all about them on what promotional advertising crap they can link to and dump on that taskbar to make shoving it in my face easier from that stupid appstore nevermind the things I want on there that I could put there before.

I might have a browser profile shortcut so I wonder what's that going to do?
Not copy shortcut or paste shortcut to the program with no parameters which would just load up the default browser profile if it go on there.

It's as good as dead to me.
Crappy Chrome copied interface where when I see a dialogue somewhere, it dims and cuts me off from the background which hurts my eyes due to the sudden and excessive change. Like the operation was so complicated I need to be cut off from the surroundings and background.

Sarcasm: Advanced thinkers for the mass majority! Mass majority = stupid and confused, don't know what they're doing and naturally born with a very low IQ level that they need to be protected with these decorating things to make them feel more secure. The mass majority don't use quicklaunch, they use "APPS on your PC" like a North London parent down talking in a low condescending tone to their child.

[Cyclotron]

So putting these clickbait videos aside, when was last time a Windows update actually broke something for you on your machine?

Remember the WinRE partition size issue (triggered by an update and causing its installation to fail)? I had to manually repartition the disk (Microsoft's published solution) of a Win10 VM. The WinRE partition was originally created by the Win10 setup automatically.

If you're looking for more substantial feedback about update issues please ask people working in corporate IT. They will happily share their experience.

I've spent the last 30+ years in corporate IT. Linux desktops are not a thing, so asking me to provide experience based on a comparison of managing fleets of Android, iOS, macOS, Windows, and Linux would be problematic, since Linux isn't used in any significant corporate IT shop that I know of. All of the others are. Any guesses as to why that's the case?

As for partition table sizing, to my memory, OEMs avoided Microsoft's Windows 10 sizing recommendations (450-500 when released) because they felt users would complain about the "wasted" space. So, there's a problem with the update, but who owns the failure is at best nebulous. I don't mind blaming MS for some of that, as they could, and we all can, do a better job. But the OEMs seemed to get out of that without many folks complaining. I do know a couple of shops that took Dell out back the woodshed over that.

[SteveThackery]

Big bloated, spaced further apart taskbar with way to add no compact sub menu's (quicklaunch).
Nothing in my favour and all works against me.

When I saw the animated skeleton placeholders in LTSC 2021 plastered over the menu's testing it in 2022 where they'd spike a CPU core as they appear, flash then disappear and that stupid app store I considered it lost it's useful functionality to me.

Now I think it's all about them on what promotional advertising crap they can link to and dump on that taskbar to make shoving it in my face easier from that stupid appstore nevermind the things I want on there that I could put there before.

I might have a browser profile shortcut so I wonder what's that going to do?
Not copy shortcut or paste shortcut to the program with no parameters which would just load up the default browser profile if it go on there.

It's as good as dead to me.

I'll tell you what this is: it's a person who has decided in advance that he hates Windows, vomiting a stream of furious, incoherent invective as some kind of justification. I can feel the raw anger in every word!!

@MrMobodies: just calm down, take a breath, and open up your mind to the possibility that you might need to spend 20 seconds familiarising yourself with the new arrangement (whatever it is, I can't tell).

And think about this: there are 700 million people using Windows 11. Seven. Hundred. Million. Surely they can't all be smarter than you, can they? Of course not! So where is all this anger really coming from? It is massively out of proportion to the issues you are reporting.

Honestly, I thought educated, qualified (often) engineers and scientists - the members of this forum - were supposed to be reasonable, logical, and above all rational people. And yet I've seen more raw emotion, more prejudice, more sheer dogmatism, more contrived rationalisation in this thread than a typical day on 'X'.

What the FUCK?

(PS: I made up the bit about 'X' - I've never used it. But I'm sure you get my gist.)

[Zero999]

Most people don't use Windows through choice. I wonder how many Windows 11 users like it, or have even considered there might be an alternative?

Microsoft simply don't care about Windows any more. It's only around 10% of their revenue and will shrink in the future, as they invest more in data centres and AI. They don't have the same reward for investing in it as they used to. Windows has a monopoly over the desktop platform, so people aren't going to switch anytime soon. Microsoft are just going to keep running Windows into the ground by pumping it full of adware, data collection and AI in a bid to boost profits from their other sectors.

[Zucca]

700 million people using Windows 11. Seven. Hundred. Million.

I have learned to type on a Dvorak keyboard. It was hell to rewire the brain with a new keyboard layout.
Now, I love it and my hands are more relaxed after a lot of typing.

Dvorak is much better than QWERTY, and we all know why the Dvorak layout is not as popular as it should.

More people using A instead of B does not imply A is better than B.

[Zucca]

Most people don't use Windows through choice. I wonder how many Windows 11 users like it, or have even considered there might be an alternative?

Microsoft simply don't care about Windows any more. It's only around 10% of their revenue and will shrink in the future, as they invest more in data centres and AI. They don't have the same reward for investing in it as they used to. Windows has a monopoly over the desktop platform, so people aren't going to switch anytime soon. Microsoft are just going to keep running Windows into the ground by pumping it full of adware, data collection and AI in a bid to boost profits from their other sectors.

110% this.

[nctnico]

700 million people using Windows 11. Seven. Hundred. Million.

I have learned to type on a Dvorak keyboard. It was hell to rewire the brain with a new keyboard layout.
Now, I love it and my hands are more relaxed after a lot of typing.

Dvorak is much better than QWERTY, and we all know why the Dvorak layout is not as popular as it should.

More people using A instead of B does not imply A is better than B.

VHS anyone? 

[SteveThackery]

More people using A instead of B does not imply A is better than B.

Indeed. It implies A is perfectly tolerable.

If every user of A was as incandescent with rage as @MrMobodies, then I'm pretty sure the situation would be different and B would rise to the top.

[ebastler]

Honestly, I thought educated, qualified (often) engineers and scientists - the members of this forum - were supposed to be reasonable, logical, and above all rational people.

This is the "General Chat" section after all, where we let it all hang out. 

[Monkeh]

If every user of A was as incandescent with rage as @MrMobodies, then I'm pretty sure the situation would be different and B would rise to the top.

As usual, you seem to be having a significant emotional reaction to others differing opinions, and are projecting an extreme emotional response onto them.

I'm not sure you quite know what being incandescent with rage means..

[SteveThackery]

Most people don't use Windows through choice. I wonder how many Windows 11 users like it, or have even considered there might be an alternative?

Funnily enough, I agree with you. You have managed to make your argument without the slightest bit of rage or invective, which is all an operating system warrants.

I would think most workplace users of Windows 11 PCs are pretty indifferent to the OS. That's because they have more interesting things to think about. I am confident that if it were a serious impediment to their productivity, the shareholders would have something to say about it and changes would be afoot.

I think that is probably true of most home users, too. I think they will find the adverts and other crud mildly-to-fairly annoying. Some of them might find out how to reduce them. But most of the time they are thinking about the application they are using, because that is where their work gets done.

We would do well to remember that for the great majority of users, Windows is just an app launcher. Oh, and some of them are interested in managing their files, too. But in general, the OS is just not that important.

[SteveThackery]

If every user of A was as incandescent with rage as @MrMobodies, then I'm pretty sure the situation would be different and B would rise to the top.

As usual, you seem to be having a significant emotional reaction to others differing opinions, and are projecting an extreme emotional response onto them.

Actually, it depends on what you mean by "emotional". If you read my posts you will find they are generally mild-mannered, mostly polite, and you will never, ever, find anything resembling the incoherent rant @MrMobodies presented us with.

However - I do admit to this (and I'm not sure if these are emotions) : astonishment and disappointment. Astonishment at the strength of feelings expressed in this thread, and disappointment at the level of prejudice and dogmatism. Discussions around Windows vs Linux take on a religious fervour - which I say is totally ridiculous.

Now go back through my posts and see if you can find any emotions other than astonishment and puzzlement.

[SteveThackery]

I'm not sure you quite know what being incandescent with rage means..

It's what we call a metaphor. Look it up.

[Cyclotron]

Most people don't use Windows through choice. I wonder how many Windows 11 users like it, or have even considered there might be an alternative?

Microsoft simply don't care about Windows any more. It's only around 10% of their revenue and will shrink in the future, as they invest more in data centres and AI. They don't have the same reward for investing in it as they used to. Windows has a monopoly over the desktop platform, so people aren't going to switch anytime soon. Microsoft are just going to keep running Windows into the ground by pumping it full of adware, data collection and AI in a bid to boost profits from their other sectors.

At first glance, this seems easy to agree with. I believe that this generalization was once absolutely true. But, I don't think it survives today as it may have in in the past.

At the companies I have worked for over the past 15 years, since macOS became an option, people have had a choice at work. That choice lands with Windows about the same amount of time as you see it depicted in the consumer market. Some even have chosen not to use Windows or macOS and instead use their phones or tablets. Those options and more are available. Over the last 6 years, I've seen virtual desktops as an option, so you can run whatever you like and use the corporate computer as a remote VM. In the past 10 years, I've worked at companies that have 10k users, 30 users, and now 5k users.  I also visit and talk to companies across the size spectrum.

Linux isn't an option because it isn't fleet manageable. Companies spend a lot of money trying to secure it as a server, and they are not going to try to do it on a desktop because it's not manageable. Most of the secure environments that I know of and have worked in wouldn't even let you use a Linux system on their network. Linux does survive in one fashion on enterprise networks. It's through the WLS (Windows Linux Subsystem) that I've used the crap out of it.  I have also grown used to PowerShell.

Similarly, many at home have chosen to move from a computer to a tablet/phone, and options for macOS or Windows are widely available. Linux, too, in that environment.

How many people run their Linux desktop with secure boot and security software running? Most people immediately disable secure boot, disable the default firewall, and often run everything as root or a user with direct access via sudo with no password.

[Monkeh]

I'm not sure you quite know what being incandescent with rage means..

It's what we call a metaphor. Look it up.

You read extreme emotions into every word - this is called projection. Look it up.

[SteveThackery]

Microsoft simply don't care about Windows any more. It's only around 10% of their revenue and will shrink in the future, as they invest more in data centres and AI. They don't have the same reward for investing in it as they used to. Windows has a monopoly over the desktop platform, so people aren't going to switch anytime soon. Microsoft are just going to keep running Windows into the ground by pumping it full of adware, data collection and AI in a bid to boost profits from their other sectors.

Once again I completely agree! But as an aside, let me just clarify this:

For me the biggest annoyance in W11 is the Start menu. Not only its structure and the way it works, but because of the "adverts" and other crud in it.

Did I go online and rant about how UTTERLY AWFUL it was? No!    That would be ridiculous and pointless. I gave five bucks to Stardock and installed Start11. And it transformed my experience of using Windows 11. Best five bucks I've spent. So now, unlike several people on this thread, I am relaxed and cheerful while using my Windows PC; my blood pressure remains steady, and I reserve my emotional energy for things that actually matter.

But to your main point, @Zero999: I agree that Windows as an operating system is less and less valuable to Microsoft, and more and more a platform for generating alternate revenue streams. My cunning avoidance of its worst aspects by installing Start11 won't last, I'm sure. I can see me moving to Mint before too long, despite my dislike of most Linux apps.

What puzzles me is why Microsoft hasn't given up already and re-engineered Windows as a compatibility layer running on top of Linux. Yes, I do appreciate that such a thing would be a BIG job. But look at it like this: the people who develop WINE have got, what, maybe half way there? And that's without any assistance from Microsoft and observing the "clean room" constraints imposed by the licensing rules.

Think what Microsoft could do if they took over WINE and finished it off so it worked for the other half. Nobody knows the inner workings of Windows better, and frankly Microsoft knows the inner workings of Linux pretty well, too.

Once they'd got "super-WINE" working, they could pretty much walk away. Freeze the Windows API - every Windows app developed from then on would be bound to work forever. No need to keep messing with the Start menu or File Explorer: that's all done by Linux.

[SteveThackery]

You read extreme emotions into every word - this is called projection. Look it up.

Do me a favour: go back and read reply #332. Really, please do.

If you are honest with yourself you will have to agree that it expresses a level of incoherent rage that I have never even got close to in my posts. You are welcome to check.

[Monkeh]

You read extreme emotions into every word - this is called projection. Look it up.

Do me a favour: go back and read reply #332. Really, please do.

If you are honest with yourself you will have to agree that it expresses a level of incoherent rage that I have never even got close to in my posts. You are welcome to check.

No, I'm afraid I don't have to submit to your opinion and interpretation.

Incoherent? Somewhat. Incoherent rage? No. Again, you're seeing extremes which aren't there. You've done it to me, too. What amounts to mild annoyance you perceive as apoplexy.

Do me a favour and don't tell me what I have to think, say, or feel. That does tend to cause a more emotional response, why, in person you might even receive a one finger salute. I'm sure you'd need to report that as a death threat.