Author Topic: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026  (Read 76110 times)

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Online Randy222

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #275 on: February 27, 2026, 10:45:18 pm »
The ct-coating website, has been stale from at least 2021 !
It's built using the free site builder Mobirise v5.2.0, which is many version old now.

In year 2026, it does seem too strange for a company doing ground-breaking r&d in innovative lithium tech to not have a well groomed webpage describing what they do, along with achievements, and some fwd looking statements.

It would perhaps be better if ctc-ag.com just went offline, vs keeping an old messy website up.

If something smells fishy, it probably is.  :-DD

I not even sure why ct-coating was mentioned, I do not find any info that ct-coating in germany is doing any tech related to lithium.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2026, 10:50:02 pm by Randy222 »
 

Online Randy222

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #276 on: February 27, 2026, 10:59:13 pm »
check out this NUTlab post
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F50hfbu8y21mg1.jpeg

Click the View Post button

Reference: https://old.reddit.com/user/DonutLab-ModTeam

Noted: not sure who user "DonutLab-ModTeam" really is.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2026, 11:06:16 pm by Randy222 »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #277 on: February 27, 2026, 11:04:40 pm »
Is this what we are supposed to see?
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Online Randy222

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #278 on: February 27, 2026, 11:09:05 pm »
Is this what we are supposed to see?
The 1st post was removed, but read the replies. That link come from the Reference I listed. In the Reference you can see what the post was.

Quote
"I'm thrilled by the whole system, its structure and above all the innovative nanoparticle paste,"


There's also chatter that some AI is involved with all the posting of what seems like BS. Maybe Moltbook escaped?

https://old.reddit.com/r/DonutLab/comments/1rfew4u/why_donut_labs_cost_claim_is_the_most_important/
« Last Edit: February 27, 2026, 11:11:15 pm by Randy222 »
 

Online Randy222

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #279 on: February 27, 2026, 11:13:48 pm »
r/DonutLab 1day ago


Quote
Go to DonutLab
r/DonutLab
•
1d ago
sparx_fast

What are the core Donut Labs claims?
Trying to collect all the different claims in a simple list. Please reply with any additions or corrections and I will edit. Add citations as necessary.

Donut Lab Battery Claims:

Solid State, No liquid electrolyte. Not a supercapacitor.

No lithium, cobalt, or rare-earth materials

400 Wh/kg energy density

Fast charge in as little as 5 minutes

Can safely charge to 100% and discharge to 0% without damage.

100,000 cycle lifespan

Operates −30°C to 100°C with 99%+ capacity retention, passive cooling only

Lower cost than lithium-ion

Designed to remain safe (no ignition/thermal runaway) when punctured or damaged.

Clay-like design that allows custom sizes, voltages, and geometries. Could be made into a snowflake.

Current ~1 GWh/year production capacity with a Near-term target of 10 GWh/year

Already shipping in Verge Motorcycles TS Pro — first deliveries April 2026

Large OEM interest & multi-billion dollar order pipeline
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #280 on: February 28, 2026, 08:50:55 am »
Here is the some kind of current "final conclusion" based solely on the VTT report curves and numerical behavior (without relying on any Donut’s marketing claims):
[...]

Isn't this just Grok slop? Why is everyone applauding? Everyone already knows Donut hasn't released real cycle life data or any details on the chemistry or supplier.

Slop implies incorrect or misleading or low quality info, its not slop as far as I know (feel free to point anything incorrect out) but it would be nice if rf-loop had stated that it was AI generated instead of posting it as their own words. @rf-loop was this the case or not?

@booscrawl, I have always refused and will continue to refuse to use Elon Musk's feces. Period.



In general and untargeted:

Of course, I use artificial intelligence as an assistant to plan and analyze many things with different tools, one of which is artificial intelligence. It is a tool in the same way as a hammer or oscilloscope or a drill. However, when using artificial intelligence, you have to understand the matter yourself and control the artificial intelligence so that you don't let it produce just any nonsense. It is a good and hard-working assistant and secretary. It is not a good, wise boss. You have to know how to define a task for it and you have to know how to guide it in that task, just like you have to know how to use any tool correctly.

Yes, you can do damage and mistakes with a drill and you can see fairy tales with an oscilloscope if you don't know how to use it. The same applies to some very advanced artificial intelligence as a tool.

We analyzed all those curves quite carefully with the resolution that was available from the pdf document (i.e. we converted them back to a data set, which of course has an embarrassingly poor resolution and accuracy) and the numerical values ​​published in it.

The purpose was to try to rule out different options that the battery structure and chemistry apparently does not have and what different possibilities there are in terms of its chemistry and structure that would fit the "model" that can be deduced from the data and images, and because the one published tiny bit of test data (so far) is the only thing that is really known about it, before more is made public.

Of course, things will change when more real data comes out. So far, almost everything has been just marketing hype with no knowledge of the reality. I'm not at all surprised that so far it has seemed like some kind of fundraising scam. It's a bit like try collect as much money as possible and exit. Let's hope that's not the case.

Much more real data is needed to confirm the claims before the doubts are dispelled. It's hard to understand why they are so keen to create doubts.

As stated earlier, the only thing that is certain is that one cell has delivered the published data in a very limited small download speed test. Nothing else is really known.

There are some conclusions that can be drawn from this, and they are all quite uncertain due to the lack of enough data.

The mere fact that the battery cell charging speed test was ordered to be so extremely limited and simple seems quite worrying. Is the VVT ​​name being used here to create an image of something more significant than reality? That remains to be seen. The prediction is not the best possible when comparing the real, fairly certain data given so far and the marketing hype.
EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum.
Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 
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Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #281 on: February 28, 2026, 12:36:32 pm »
I wonder if all this farting about with a countdown and shit is a way of buying time. I wonder if the CEO has decided to announce something that doesn't exist yet - for the glory of it - expecting that if he puts his dev guys under enough pressure they'll eventually come up with the goods.

I've come across bosses like that: bosses who think anything is possible - it's just about applying enough pressure to their workers. These bosses see themselves as visionary leaders; they think any talk about whether something is actually possible is a sign of weakness and lack of commitment.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2026, 12:41:27 pm by SteveThackery »
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #282 on: February 28, 2026, 04:55:55 pm »
I wonder if all this farting about with a countdown and shit is a way of buying time.

No shit Sherlock  ;D

That's how all these scams work. Milk the cow as long as possible. And they are playing this very well. 99.9% of battery scams have failed to get any money at all.

Now it's interesting to see how it plays out from now on. Their first report have exactly the effect they planned it to have: for non-experts it seems to surficially verify some of the key claims, and it has this "tested by VTT" effect in itself, and that works to some extent regardless of what the report says.

Then again, even mainstream media is already full of actual experts saying that this report does not look very good for them: mainly the suspicion this is just regular li-ion cell, fully opposite to their central claims, underwhelming internal resistance, and the overheating issue.

And investors also read what others have said about that report.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2026, 04:59:13 pm by Siwastaja »
 

Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #283 on: February 28, 2026, 05:58:05 pm »
I wonder if all this farting about with a countdown and shit is a way of buying time.

No shit Sherlock  ;D

That's how all these scams work. Milk the cow as long as possible. And they are playing this very well. 99.9% of battery scams have failed to get any money at all.

No, I don't mean buy time to milk money from investors. I mean buying time to develop the product.
 

Offline kiko_kikkou

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #284 on: March 02, 2026, 12:57:43 pm »
Next reveal in few minutes, I didn't bother buying popcorn, but this should still be interesting.

https://idonutbelieve.com/
 

Offline 5U4GB

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #285 on: March 02, 2026, 01:03:10 pm »
Next reveal in few minutes, I didn't bother buying popcorn, but this should still be interesting.

https://idonutbelieve.com/

Well this VTT report, linked from there, says it's a 94Wh battery, just under the 100Wh you can take on aircraft.  So, a standard power bank.
 

Offline kiko_kikkou

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #286 on: March 02, 2026, 02:04:24 pm »
For anyone who still wants to believe, here's the part two video. I don't know how to embed anything because I'm just a lurker, but here's the link. Also not an electric engineer, so I'm not reading the study, I'll read the aftermath once this part 2 starts taking traction.

 

Offline Kean

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #287 on: March 02, 2026, 02:06:13 pm »
Apparently the pouch ruptured (lost its vacuum) during the high temperature test.

So much for them implying it will not swell during use as claimed between 2:15 and 3:30 in the previous fast charge test video.
 

Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #288 on: March 02, 2026, 05:03:44 pm »
So, folks, it's looking quite impressive thus far?
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #289 on: March 02, 2026, 05:23:39 pm »
So, folks, it's looking quite impressive thus far?

Wut? Looks the most unimpressive thing. Any li-ion cell discharges at 0.5C at 100degC. The second report is even more underwhelming than the first one - especially since the cell failed during the test.

Still no weight. My guess is that it's only downhill from here, those few who are still believing stop believing one by one.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2026, 05:25:23 pm by Siwastaja »
 
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Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #290 on: March 03, 2026, 12:03:41 am »
.... those few who are still believing stop believing one by one.

Are there any believers? Everything I've read - every comment - has been disbelief. It seems the CEO is the only person who believes (and maybe not even him).
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #291 on: March 03, 2026, 12:15:18 am »
Cell is most damaged during charge cycle at high temperature, so only testing discharging was clearly deliberate, and only doing one cycle. From what I can see a normal li-ion cell would lose ~40% capacity in two full cycles at 100C.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9753165/
https://blog.epectec.com/battery-charging-and-discharging-at-high-and-low-temperatures

In general and untargeted:

Of course, I use artificial intelligence as an assistant to plan and analyze many things with different tools, one of which is artificial intelligence. It is a tool in the same way as a hammer or oscilloscope or a drill. However, when using artificial intelligence, you have to understand the matter yourself and control the artificial intelligence so that you don't let it produce just any nonsense. It is a good and hard-working assistant and secretary. It is not a good, wise boss. You have to know how to define a task for it and you have to know how to guide it in that task, just like you have to know how to use any tool correctly.

But the top half of your post was *written* by AI, as far as I can tell. Your other posts seem to be your own writing.
If you are going to copy paste AI output please quote it or differentiate in some way it from the rest of your post. If you did write it, not sure whats up with all the line breaks and formatting.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 

Online Randy222

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #292 on: March 03, 2026, 01:40:20 am »
Maybe nutLAB is deep in loan repay promises, and to stay afloat they are hyping what they think they can in have with just a little more time, with a little cash flow?

The videos are something, but perhaps not what we are expecting.

I do also suspect, if some breakthrough batt tech based on some new nano paste was to come to light, the labNUTs probably not the ones to bring it to market.
Prove me wrong.
 

Offline bwiseso1

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #293 on: March 03, 2026, 03:04:58 pm »
The skepticism in thread is totally justified, especially when those "miracle" specs seem to bend the laws of physics. It’s hard not to get "Theranos vibes" when a company claims to have perfected solid-state tech overnight while the rest of the industry is still struggling to get out of the lab.
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #294 on: March 03, 2026, 05:43:42 pm »
"miracle" specs seem to bend the laws of physics

Oh, not by any means. There is absolutely no any fundamental physical law being bent. Batteries with similar specifications will likely be available at some point - it is all about finding the right materials, construction techniques, and all the difficult manufacturing details. They have actually carefully chosen their specifications so that none of them is that outrageous in isolation - but all put together, is something that does not currently exist.

With some claims, they went overboard just for giggles - like, instead of 100 000 cycles, "just" 10 000 cycles would be equally good in practice. If cheap and lightweight battery is available, that would mean large capacity. And that capacity alone would mean it not being cycled that much, so maybe 1 cycle / day would be extreme top end. So ~30 years with 10 000 cycles, if calendar life is there.

And to be clear, my personal guess is they don't have any prototype of any type of battery really, and no plans of any kind to design one. Just samples of regular off-the-shelf li-ion, from any manufacturer, that they are abusing in tests.

Some seem to still believe they are a company with some sort of plan to actually develop new battery technology and just buying time in "fake it until you make it" fashion. Maybe that's a remote possibility, but I don't believe that. Their "manufacturing" site is empty. No one in the industry knows any battery chemist that works for them. And so on.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2026, 05:45:52 pm by Siwastaja »
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #295 on: March 04, 2026, 09:16:48 am »
With some claims, they went overboard just for giggles - like, instead of 100 000 cycles, "just" 10 000 cycles would be equally good in practice. If cheap and lightweight battery is available, that would mean large capacity. And that capacity alone would mean it not being cycled that much, so maybe 1 cycle / day would be extreme top end. So ~30 years with 10 000 cycles, if calendar life is there.

If we think about vehicle batteries, that is true.

However, we must also remember how the cycle life behaves.

It is a completely different thing if we are talking about one real SoC 0-100% cycle than a hundred SoC 50-51% charge, which would correspond to one cycle (which in reality is much different), also taking into account other variables that affect the cycle life.

Batteries are or would be needed for other applications as well, and at high currents a huge number of cycles would be potentially downright revolutionary. For example, distributed regulation of the electricity grid, where large batteries would be a significant part of the regulation, spread over a wide area of ​​the grid. If something like this were implemented on a huge scale, it could be truly revolutionary in large electricity grids, where there are increasingly fast, high-power production and consumption fluctuations. Today, there is already a latent shortage of regulation capacity in many places, and this applies to the traditional consumption structure of the electricity grid.

Electric vehicles bring something new to this too. Especially as they are constantly developing and increasing. Likewise, other than the so-called traditional classical (water, fossil fuel combustion and combined power) electricity production methods. Wind and solar power basically require regulation power for their entire power, part of which problem is now visible in the electricity exchanges.

There will be more electric cars, and their charging powers will increase, battery systems will increase (and unfortunately also consumption per driving distance), there will still be more wind and solar power, traditional hydropower and nuclear power will still exist... then there is also the export and import of electricity. Regulating the balance of the electricity grid is a huge issue. If there were a large number of large batteries distributed there that could be continuously charged and discharged very quickly, it would change the whole game to a completely new level. The durability of the cycles, the discharge and the charging speed are quite significant in this application. We could be talking about things of completely different magnitudes than in the case of a single electric vehicle.

That 100,000 would already be pretty good in this regard. It's not even a big dream. Especially when we take practical cycles and not just cycles under ideal laboratory conditions.

It should also be noted that both discharge and charge must be possible with a high C-value. Now we are only talking about relatively high C-values ​​for charging alone. In addition, the batteries should also be very safe when used for fast grid balancing.

It was also a little confusing that the cell used in the first and second tests was not the same. Why? Did the cell marked DL3 break or get damaged in the first test, or was the person who commissioned the test afraid that it would happen. That is not a good sign either. Now the cell DL2 used in the second test broke. (The bag of the bag cell broke, meaning the cell is damaged, although it still somehow worked afterwards.)

So far, no evidence has been presented of any world-changing battery invention. In fact, it has even been refuted to some extent when looking at the very limited and, in other words, very incomplete data that has been obtained so far. This does not look good now. And if the tests continue to be so extremely limited, downright minimalist, skepticism will only grow.
Do they believe that some investors would not understand anything other than "the product has been tested by VTT"? Of course, everyone knows that a certain amount of money is also in the so-called weak hands.
EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum.
Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 

Online Randy222

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #296 on: March 04, 2026, 07:09:34 pm »
If there's no claim of 1mil cycles, then it's not a supercap of any kind.
If the LABnuts mentioned 5,000 or 10,000 or even wild 100,000 cycles, then it's almost definitely a wet lithium battery.
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #297 on: March 05, 2026, 07:46:17 am »
Batteries are or would be needed for other applications as well, and at high currents a huge number of cycles would be potentially downright revolutionary. For example, distributed regulation of the electricity grid, where large batteries would be a significant part of the regulation, spread over a wide area of ​​the grid.

Nah, we do exactly that, and the trend is the opposite to what you think it is - towards larger capacity, more energy, not so much power in comparison. While there is some need for high speed regulation (currently provided by STATCOMs, inertia and yes, to some extent, by batteries), the power and especially energy involved in the fast regulation loop is rather small. This is because in a grid, short-term effects average out. What happens at minute scale is just noise. But what happens at 15-minute, 1-hour, 1-day scale is far from noise, it shows large trends as function of prediction errors, maintenance, weather, behavioral patterns.

Like, for example, for PV production, a cloud can suddenly cease the production, but it does not happen everywhere at the same second. But during an hour, it can happen over a large area. That's the interesting timescale.

It is true that need for grid-scale energy storage is increasing (see e.g. Fingrid https://www.fingridlehti.fi/reservien-tarve-kasvaa-kohisten/ , the image every salesman is showing to their residential to-be-customers to sell them our, or our competitor's box; ours is the best of course  :D), but that increase is almost solely in mFRR (which none of the home battery reserve providers do, we neither), spot energy trading and intraday energy trading. All of which are high-energy, slow assets with large capacity requirement and not that much C-rate involved.

The large need for aFRR, mFRR, intraday energy arises from prediction errors especially in wind forecasts which are done day before for spot markets. Say, e.g. in such small country as Finland, you predicted 4GW of wind and you got 3GW or 5GW. Or, you predicted that the wind ramps down at 7:00AM but it does so already at 6:30AM. So now you would be discharging 1GW for 30 minutes, then afterwards slowly recharging.

While I mention Finland, the same physical reality, and same or similar markets are of course in larger grids, e.g. the Continental Europe Synchronous Area which is a huge grid.

These hour-scale effects are large and energy-heavy. So any large battery asset would be multimarket-optimized, combining whatever balancing periods are most profitable (i.e., most needed). And the typical battery of today is rated to 0.5C or at max 1C, and battery design is not the limiting factor at all, we could well have 2C capable grid batteries already with LFP or Na-ion but we don't usually need that rating.

And as such a battery traded optimally to all these markets could maybe see 10-20 "cycles" during a day, but those cycles would be with small DOD% so the wear would not be equivalent even of 1 full cycle. Or, in a different market situation even more energy would be needed (e.g., trading energy between night and day), so the cycle would be larger, but then it's also fewer cycles.

So a typical use case for a grid battery could be 1 nearly full cycle for a day plus a dozen of microcycles during the day.

For this we currently use LFP mostly and it already does great job, and financials seem to work out. Only small % is in the cost of the cells, and that is, we are taking the whole lifetime into account.

So, maybe, if we could increase the nominal full-cycle life rating of a typical LFP cell, say, from 3000-5000 cycles to 10000 cycles, it would be nice I guess, but I have hard time imagining other than niche needs for a 10C, 100000-cycle battery, including grid and behind-the-meter balancing/optimization, because a 2C battery 5 times larger, or 1C battery 10 times larger does the same power, and much more.

This is basically the same discussion as in 2010 when many experts were certain that all we need are 15-20kWh EV batteries that charge at 10-20C, and it was actually quite innovative from early Tesla to show a proof-of-concept that what we actually need is more capacity, and high charge power then comes as an extra, even with lower C rate.

The same is true in power system / grid balancing, we need more and more capacity, and once we have that, the short-term power just comes for free, and does not wear out the battery, because the depth-of-cycle for those short peaks is so tiny.

Conclusion: for mobility, energy density AND price / kWh over the lifetime are still the most relevant. For stationary, price / kWh over the lifetime, not so much energy density.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2026, 07:53:00 am by Siwastaja »
 

Offline kiko_kikkou

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #298 on: March 06, 2026, 05:19:17 pm »
I have read like 7 donut news in Finnish language since part 2, and leaked investor-only emails, using my rss feed. Just been too lazy to save them I might have to go to my history and try to find something.
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: Donut Lab alleged Solid State Battery launched at CES 2026
« Reply #299 on: March 06, 2026, 05:43:29 pm »
This is basically the same discussion as in 2010 when many experts were certain that all we need are 15-20kWh EV batteries that charge at 10-20C, and it was actually quite innovative from early Tesla to show a proof-of-concept that what we actually need is more capacity, and high charge power then comes as an extra, even with lower C rate.

The same is true in power system / grid balancing, we need more and more capacity, and once we have that, the short-term power just comes for free, and does not wear out the battery, because the depth-of-cycle for those short peaks is so tiny.

Conclusion: for mobility, energy density AND price / kWh over the lifetime are still the most relevant. For stationary, price / kWh over the lifetime, not so much energy density.

To be fair to the "experts" -- the earlier generations of EVs and PHEVs used NiMH or even lead acid batteries (the original EV1 for instance).   The assumption wasn't that larger capacity wasn't desirable, it was that fast charging would be cheaper than high capacity because there is a very direct relation between capacity, weight, and cost.  Lead is very heavy and nickel is somewhat heavy and very expensive.  At that time lithium ion batteries were still new, expensive, and small.  But ultimately their raw materials were cheaper and lighter than the other batteries which is what enabled the dramatic cost reduction over the last 15 years and made it practical to make a choice between capacity and charge rate.

So it was an understandable mistake (or maybe misprediction?) in 2010.  What's annoying is that people keep making that mistake in 2026, like the last 2 decades of battery advancements never happened.
 


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