I've seen a surprising number of people not being able to do.
if you like to improve the GUI now is the time for it. The current 5.1.0 development is mainly about improving the overall user experience including finding and fixing inconsistencies. You will notice quite a bit of GUI changes compared to KiCad 5.0.0.
I do not share your feeling how KiCad prioritizes work. Working on the GUI is only one of many things, and there are many things to do.
Are you talking in general or about kicad? If kicad I can imagine why. But I don't want to put it in dirt, at the end, this is the only opensource tool that is not totally useless.
if you like to improve the GUI now is the time for it. The current 5.1.0 development is mainly about improving the overall user experience including finding and fixing inconsistencies. You will notice quite a bit of GUI changes compared to KiCad 5.0.0.
I do not share your feeling how KiCad prioritizes work. Working on the GUI is only one of many things, and there are many things to do.I could live with the GUI if I could just get better automated handoff of the netlist and live updating of the netlist (with an option to disable or perhaps undo the last import) among the various tools.
The GUI is a collection of related apps that feels unpolished, but I have to admit that it's functional. (As is the netlist handling to be honest, so I'm even contradicting myself a bit there perhaps...)
It's definitely functional and I can quite reliably get boards out of it. Any limitations with the tool are my own.
It's not about the quirks.
It's about the inconsistencies and KiCad is full of them.
Getting a good consistent GUI for multiple platforms isn't difficult, there are plenty of (free) examples out there that prove it.
Many people have said it before and I repeat it again; it's all about priorities.
Personally I would like to add that it's also about attitude.
With that I mean really listen to the community, people who have been working as a PCB designer for many years.
The developers of KiCad don't really seem to care about it.
In fact, I am almost willing to fork the entire project and find a couple of motivated people to work just on the GUI until even my mom can work with it.
I recommend doing that. Then you will either a) create a much better tool or b) find out writing a much better tool is actually not that easy.
There are projects with similar goals you might want to help out, Horizon LibrePCB. There have been several other people promising to make a "better KiCad" but I don't think they got anywhere.
It's not about the quirks.
It's about the inconsistencies and KiCad is full of them.
Getting a good consistent GUI for multiple platforms isn't difficult, there are plenty of (free) examples out there that prove it.
Many people have said it before and I repeat it again; it's all about priorities.
Personally I would like to add that it's also about attitude.
With that I mean really listen to the community, people who have been working as a PCB designer for many years.
The developers of KiCad don't really seem to care about it.
Have you filed bug reports and wish list items at the Kicad Launchpad? Do you follow the developers' email listserv so you can see clearly what they are working on and why they've prioritized things the way they do?
The assertion that they don't care is not true.
It's not about the quirks.
It's about the inconsistencies and KiCad is full of them.
Getting a good consistent GUI for multiple platforms isn't difficult, there are plenty of (free) examples out there that prove it.
Many people have said it before and I repeat it again; it's all about priorities.
Personally I would like to add that it's also about attitude.
With that I mean really listen to the community, people who have been working as a PCB designer for many years.
The developers of KiCad don't really seem to care about it.
Have you filed bug reports and wish list items at the Kicad Launchpad? Do you follow the developers' email listserv so you can see clearly what they are working on and why they've prioritized things the way they do?
The assertion that they don't care is not true.The biggest flaw in the head of a developer/software programmer.
This is not a bug, this is just fundamental understanding how to build up an intuitive piece of software.
Bit off topic, but I am completely convinced why most open source (not all!) totally fail in the long run because of this flaw.
Don't get me wrong, KiCad has a lot of potential, you can't deny that.
But the interface is made by and for programming geeks, NOT your every day, professional, I need a smooth interface that I can trust PCB user.
Most very good and professional PCB designers don't even know anything about programming or just the basics.
This kind of interface was an excuse 10 years ago maybe, but not anno 2018 anymore.
Yes I (and with me many others) have tried to talk to the developers and get involved.
But with an attitude that "we know it better, and we are not gonna do what all the big companies are doing, meh" you're not gonna make it.
Not to mention the overly sensitivity with every teeny bit of critique that is being given.
Everybody who feels the same and knows how to program, please contact me and I will have a look what we can do.
It's not about the quirks.
It's about the inconsistencies and KiCad is full of them.
Getting a good consistent GUI for multiple platforms isn't difficult, there are plenty of (free) examples out there that prove it.
Many people have said it before and I repeat it again; it's all about priorities.
Personally I would like to add that it's also about attitude.
With that I mean really listen to the community, people who have been working as a PCB designer for many years.
The developers of KiCad don't really seem to care about it.
Have you filed bug reports and wish list items at the Kicad Launchpad? Do you follow the developers' email listserv so you can see clearly what they are working on and why they've prioritized things the way they do?
The assertion that they don't care is not true.The biggest flaw in the head of a developer/software programmer.
This is not a bug, this is just fundamental understanding how to build up an intuitive piece of software.
Bit off topic, but I am completely convinced why most open source (not all!) totally fail in the long run because of this flaw.
Don't get me wrong, KiCad has a lot of potential, you can't deny that.
But the interface is made by and for programming geeks, NOT your every day, professional, I need a smooth interface that I can trust PCB user.
Most very good and professional PCB designers don't even know anything about programming or just the basics.
This kind of interface was an excuse 10 years ago maybe, but not anno 2018 anymore.
Yes I (and with me many others) have tried to talk to the developers and get involved.
But with an attitude that "we know it better, and we are not gonna do what all the big companies are doing, meh" you're not gonna make it.
Not to mention the overly sensitivity with every teeny bit of critique that is being given.
Everybody who feels the same and knows how to program, please contact me and I will have a look what we can do.
Do you really think that the Kicad developers aren't also PCB designers? See, that's why I said you should actually join the developers' listserv to see what is actually going on and see who is actually doing the development. Because you don't know what you're talking about.
You say you've "tried to talk to the developers." Where?
Basically their answer is; wait until version 6 and we will see it from there.
Basically their answer is; wait until version 6 and we will see it from there.
So basically you're complaining they're not going to throw out their existing development plan and progress to do things your way immediately?
Frankly I'd be annoyed if the UI changed significantly at this point because I'd have to spend time re-learning how to do things, time that I could instead spend making more boards.
And if they focused on the UI at the expense of everything else, they'd throw out a different section of the market. There are other tools out there with nicer UIs but they are not as flexible or powerful as KiCad. If the UI is that important to you then I suggest using one of the tools that has a more polished UI. The rest of us have managed to work around the UI issues in KiCad, it's just not a big deal.
I've used at least 5 or 6 different EDAs and they all had lousy interfaces, even one that cost thousands of dollars. KiCad is free and it does the job. Frankly I'd be annoyed if the UI changed significantly at this point because I'd have to spend time re-learning how to do things, time that I could instead spend making more boards.
In fact, I am almost willing to fork the entire project and find a couple of motivated people to work just on the GUI until even my mom can work with it.
I recommend doing that. Then you will either a) create a much better tool or b) find out writing a much better tool is actually not that easy.
There are projects with similar goals you might want to help out, Horizon LibrePCB. There have been several other people promising to make a "better KiCad" but I don't think they got anywhere.
As the main developer of horizon EDA, I obviously beg to differ. I recently completed the PCB for my master thesis using horizon EDA: https://github.com/carrotIndustries/x-band-tx
Even though some features are still missing, it's perfectly usable for small to medium-sized projects.
Frankly I'd be annoyed if the UI changed significantly at this point because I'd have to spend time re-learning how to do things, time that I could instead spend making more boards.Would it be so bad to fix the fact that you hit "c" to duplicate something in the schematic editor, but Command-D to duplicate something in the PCB layout tool or footprint editor, but it's drag to select and then right mouse to duplicate to duplicate something in the parts library editor (or that you can drag to select and then copy block and when you immediately go to paste the block, you get an error message "Warning: No block to paste")?
If cleaning that up would hurt the usability of the tool for you, then KiCAD project really is stuck between a rock and hard place...
I've tried to be patient with it, but its unusable. The user interface is just terrible (and I'm a professional software engineer). I finally lost it and uninstalled when I dropped a transistor om a schematic, tried to move it and had it leave part of the symbol behind (this is the latest 'stable' version as of the time of this post).
I've tried to be patient with it, but its unusable. The user interface is just terrible (and I'm a professional software engineer). I finally lost it and uninstalled when I dropped a transistor om a schematic, tried to move it and had it leave part of the symbol behind (this is the latest 'stable' version as of the time of this post).
I've tried to be patient with it, but its unusable. The user interface is just terrible (and I'm a professional software engineer). I finally lost it and uninstalled when I dropped a transistor om a schematic, tried to move it and had it leave part of the symbol behind (this is the latest 'stable' version as of the time of this post).
I've tried to be patient with it, but its unusable. The user interface is just terrible (and I'm a professional software engineer). I finally lost it and uninstalled when I dropped a transistor om a schematic, tried to move it and had it leave part of the symbol behind (this is the latest 'stable' version as of the time of this post).