Allpcb - global free shipping!

[8bitgasm]

$5 Board deals were sure nice while they lasted.  Definitely not a sustainable business at that price however.

[soubitos]

Seems they changed pricing days after i placed my order... which i havent received yet as it was shipped via HK post (per my request of course).... they might arrive together with my other order from jlcpcb which has the same board too so i can compare the two ... although i incline to order from jlcpcb i must admit mostly because so far they exceed my expectations in customer support and as long as they do their best, i would like to stick with them

[tszaboo]

OK, a quick review. Qthe quality of the PCBs are just bad. I mean, they work. But silkscreen resolution is bad. Several orientation marker dots got deleted in my design, with .2mm diamter dots. I had text on it, a 0.25mm Stroke string, and they deleted the dot from the i. Unacceptable, if you ask me.
 
And then I had to rework some SOT23 devices, because they were in reverse. When placing them back, the pads were already lifting from the PCB.
I guess I got what I payed for.

[Yansi]

"Pic or didn't happen" 

Small silkscreen resolution is inherent to ALL chinese fabs as far as I know. Is it even worse than that?

I have experience with Itead Studio, Dirty PCBs / Dangerous Prototypes 2.0, never had problems with the copper peeling off after some rework done. Is the AllPCB that worse?

My PCBs from AllPCB will likely arrive on Monday...

[jeremy]

Small silkscreen resolution is inherent to ALL chinese fabs as far as I know. Is it even worse than that?

In my experience it is the same as all of the other low cost Chinese fabs; marginal at best.

Fwiw, the best silkscreen I ever got came from circuitlabs in nz. I suspect they use a lithographic process for the silkscreen.

[soubitos]

These are from the new TP4056FLEXADV-V2.20F module i am about to start selling...
Made by JLCPCB ... the photos are from my phone, dont really know how well they show.
I couldn't tell how they print the silkscreen really but, the top layer seems like tiny diagonal lines, not dots per se.. the bottom though is almost straight lines, despite the fact it is 0.7mm font size! they really look like they are very high quality... as for the durability... well... i really abused some of their boards, soldering and desoldering parts, brushed it with medium toothbrush and alcohol to clean it then again and again.... not even a scratch.... of course if i go with the tip of my tweezers the pcb has no chance but it will not flake away from "normal" use and some abuse as well... i honestly dont see the point for extra high resolution when it comes to silkscreen, i would give more points to durability and i wouldnt like it too "dotty" either ... i hope my poor english translates well !!!

[tszaboo]

There you go. D1 amost lost 2 pads, they are crooked and held in place by the lead. D2 lost a pad. All orientation marker is gone from D1-D2, and all the i-s. Sure, I heated the board when soldering IC1, and desoldering D1-D2, but it should have survived this.

[HwAoRrDk]

The overall quality of the silkscreen there looks pretty good - it just looks like the dots were never even part of the data to be printed in the first place. Their process is perfectly capable of producing such dots - I got some boards from them myself just a little while ago with such fine silkscreen dots.

Are you sure it wasn't a problem with your gerbers?

Other than that, the only way I can imagine that happening is if perhaps someone at AllPCB mis-applied some pre-printing processing to the silkscreen gerber data that said something like "eliminate all shapes that have total area less than X".

[Yansi]

NANDBlog: I doubt that is the fab's mistake. I'd double check the gerbers are valid and not somehow obscurely damaged. The text is very large and should be of no problem to manufacture. I use much lower font sizes with Chinese prototyping houses, like 0.8mm height, while still fully readable and no dots missing.

PS: Why blackening the TUSB213 chip? 

[tszaboo]

NANDBlog: I doubt that is the fab's mistake. I'd double check the gerbers are valid and not somehow obscurely damaged. The text is very large and should be of no problem to manufacture. I use much lower font sizes with Chinese prototyping houses, like 0.8mm height, while still fully readable and no dots missing.

PS: Why blackening the TUSB213 chip? 

Did TI already release the datasheet for it? I guess then I dont need to hide that anymore.

Actually I double checked the Gerber, and the i-s had the dots removed. Re-generated the gerbers, and the dots are there. Bloody Altium making mistakes on gerber generation again...
I cannot believe this. I had a board, where some of the bottom silkscreen got copied to the top soldermask.

The orientation marker was 0.2mm  ant it got deleted though. I guess it was too close to the pad, they cropped it (which is fine, no silkscreen over pads) and then it became smaller than wat they can print. And lifting pads on rework is still a big no-no.

[Yansi]

Altium strikes again! 

Well, the datasheet is readily available and to find what the chip you're hiding was like a 30 seconds search. First a TUSB211 came up - but wrong package, so the second link was TUSB213, with a correct package and also the pinout fits. 

I don't know about the peel strength of the boards from ALLPCB, but never had any problems with it using different manufacturers (mentioned above: mainly Itead Studio). And I did abuse some quite a lot reworking parts multiple times, but I always use hot air. Prying the components out using just the soldering iron might definitely damage even more quality boards, when not done carefully.

[Metsuko]

Hello, I know it does not belong here but I would like to ask what is ''Coupon balance'' on Allpcb.com? How to use it? I have there 120$ and I don't know how spend it.

Thanks Martin

[8bitgasm]

@nandblog, any reason you don't tent your vias?  I believe allpcb charges more $ leaving them untented like that...

[AndyC_772]

I've had some mixed experiences from AllPCB lately.

I've spent the whole of the last couple of working days soldering surface mount boards; various techniques including a regular soldering iron, and a hot air station both with and without a pre-heater.

No lifted pads at all to report. The only PCB damage has been a couple of tiny nicks in the solder mask, which is quite thin, but that's by no means unique to AllPCB.

Silk screen is fine too. Not perfect, but certainly readable, and no identifying marks have been lost. I've seen much worse on boards that cost a whole lot more.

On the other hand...

I'm still getting CAD data rejected because "no NC drill file", even when it's right there in the .ZIP, and called "ABC01 NC DRILL 1-6.drl". 

Seriously, if there's anyone from AllPCB reading this: you really need to sort this out, it's embarrassing. There are files in my .ZIP for every layer of the board, plus the drill drawing and solder paste masks, and ONE more file with "NC DRILL" in the name. What do you think that file might be?! 

I normally copy my board outline onto the solder mask layers with 0.5mm width, so I get a nominal 0.25mm clearance between the edge of the solder mask and the routed edge. This helps ensure that the edge of the solder mask remains smooth even if the routing bit is blunt.

Normally it's accepted without question by PCB fabs, but today it was queried. I don't mind the query, but it would be nice to see some consistency (ie. always query it or never do), rather than have a job delayed unexpectedly as a result of something I've done many times before. It's no effort for me to put "yes, the solder mask layers really are correct" in a note, provided I know in advance that I need to.

My first controlled impedance board is going through production right now. Wish me luck!

[girts]

I'm still getting CAD data rejected because "no NC drill file", even when it's right there in the .ZIP, and called "ABC01 NC DRILL 1-6.drl".

Usually it's a good practice to name files according to DOS requirements, up to 8 chars file name, 3 chars - extension.
 

[AndyC_772]

Why? It's not 1991, either here or in China.

[girts]

Why? It's not 1991, either here or in China.

Compatibility issues.
WEB server which accepts your orders most likely runs some kind of UNIX. A lot of production machines are already running under DOS. 
Did you ever tried to make directory named "prn" or "con" under Windows? Try now, in case of success please let us know immediately!

[Yansi]

So finally my PCBs arrived today!

I have ordered 10pcs 0.8mm 2layer ones.  Order sent on tuesday, came on monday. Just 4 working days. Very impressive. The manufacturing itself took 25 hours according to the AllPCB website flow log.
The package contained 11pcs, with one having a slight defect in the solder mask - guessing a reject  from an optical inspection (?), that passed electrical test (?) though. I have no problem with this, the defect would not be an issue of any sort for manual PCB soldering, is almost invisible.
Regarding the silkscreen: Used a font of 30mil/0.76mm height with a 4.5mil stroke - yes, I like pushing limits when it comes to silkscreen. It is absolutely readable, no problems or misprinted characters. (Some of them are not readable, but I have place those nameholders in places I shouldn't have).
Solder mask and drilling positioning is very precise.
I would like to also note, that the pcb outline seems not to be fully routed and the dimension precision is not the best, but still within sensible tolerance.  Some sides are a bit rough and wiggly - guessing they use a panel with mouse bites on the edges, that are hand ground afterwards.
I am overly very satisfied, and because my friend is a stupid moron, I am placing a second order right away, as he forgot to send my DDS PCB to the local manufacturer. Doh!

Note: This review is not sponsored, neither have I begged for the dollar for placing a good review here. This is just a honest review as I see it based on a single order.

[Monkeh]

WEB server which accepts your orders most likely runs some kind of UNIX.

Not a problem. We're a little more advanced than you give us credit for.

A lot of production machines are already running under DOS.

They can deal with the limitations of their own outdated equipment for themselves.

Did you ever tried to make directory named "prn" or "con" under Windows? Try now, in case of success please let us know immediately!

Yes, Windows is broken by design - I don't see how that makes 8.3 relevant in 2018.

[HwAoRrDk]

The only issue I've had with long filenames is that some PCB manufacturers take the zip file name as a kind of customer job identifier and print it on paperwork, labels, etc. where inevitably there isn't enough space and the text gets cut off or overprints other information.

[tszaboo]

@nandblog, any reason you don't tent your vias?  I believe allpcb charges more $ leaving them untented like that...

Nobody charges for not tented vias. In fact, that is the default for any via, just like the TH components.
I started using not-tented vias for prototypes, because it is easier to modify it.

[Yansi]

The "tented or not tented vias thing" is retarded from the head to toe.  Some of the local manufacturers where I live do even require you to NOT tent any vias on the board, due to "reliability issues, because of trapped chemical from the manufacturing processes". Or some bullshit like this.

They would even charge you for tenting the vias. 

[soubitos]

I received my AllPCB order today... it is the same PCB i got about a month ago from easyeda so i can compare them.
The first noticable thing is, i got 13pcs instead of 10!
Packing was ok, i ordered with registered airmail so it took some extra time so i cannot speak about their fast delivery etc.
I cannot take good close ups of the pcb but i feel sticking with easyeda/jlcpcb ...
The overall feeling of the pcbs is good BUT... HASL surfaces look flatter and "better" on jlcpcb although allpcb seems shiny-er, not to mention silkscreen which is not good on allpcb. 6 of 13 pcbs delivered had almost missing silkscreen on a few components, the outline of screw terminals where interrupted (as if an inkject printer leaves a "line" and the same in several other parts of the pcb..

1st pic is the box (12x12x5cm)
2nd pic side of the box with customs clearance label (green means you dont pay anything but it was passed through customs - stated value on the box was actual amount paid -5.49$-)
3rd all 13 boards
4th one of the 6 boards with the silkscreen issues
5th another of the 6
6th closeup of the allpcb board to the left and jlcpcb to the right, the silkscreen difference is obvious i think and HASL surfaces too, might not show on camera but they really differ.
7th closeup of a good and a not so good allpcb boards..

From all i can tell, they must "inkjet" print the silkscreen...
One last thing, the boards are ok for what i paid for, and more than ok to test a project.

[asmi]

I think you guys are expecting a bit too much from manufacturer who has to cut all corners it can in order to break even with such low prices. You get what you pay for. As long as they are functional, it should be good enough.

[8bitgasm]

@nandblog, any reason you don't tent your vias?  I believe allpcb charges more $ leaving them untented like that...

Nobody charges for not tented vias. In fact, that is the default for any via, just like the TH components.
I started using not-tented vias for prototypes, because it is easier to modify it.

You're right, I must have got confused what I was looking at before.  That's a good idea leaving them un-tented for future modification/testing. Thanks!