First boards from ALLPCB.COM - Postive expereince.

[pulsar123]

I'm having a little trouble telling the distance, maybe not enough clearance for the solder mask?

Wouldn't DRC catch this?

There is one more detail about my project (perhaps it explains the issue?):  Originally it was designed as a purely single-layer design (I thought I would use a local on-campus milling machine where single layer milling is quite a bit cheaper, but later changed my mind). Accordingly, in the footprints I used or created, I deleted the front layer pads, and only left the bottom layer parts. Perhaps it was a wrong thing to do?

[imidis]

Yeah, it should be fine I think. The image that they sent to you points out more than just the D16 pads, so I'm just trying to figure out what it might be.  Which may be what they meane because it looks like you still have vias but pads on the one side? But what the other arrows are pointing out I just can't figure out.

[pulsar123]

Indeed, I only have pads on one side, but then I added a few vias and front side tracks (when I realized I will be using a proper PCB manufacturing service). I actually prefer pads to only be on the bottom side as it is much easier to solder and de-solder the parts.

[pulsar123]

Well, I am impressed so far: for 5.50$ total (with free shipping), my five 10x10cm 2-layer PCBs were ordered on allpcb.com site on November 17, and were just delivered to my house (I am at work at the moment). Only 7 days in total, despite 2-3 days lost due to the 12 hour time difference and going back and fourth 3 times due to some issues with my files. The shipping itself (to Canada, by DHL) only took 35 hours. So far so good! I'll post an update later, regarding the quality of the PCBs.

[AndyC_772]

I've just had a slightly odd experience with AllPCB.

I ordered some boards from them a few weeks ago as a test, and they came back spot on.

Then, a couple of days ago, I put in an order for another design, and it got queried. No NC drill layer, apparently.

So, I checked the ZIP file I'd uploaded, and it's definitely there, so I emailed back to point this out.

AllPCB came back with another request for the NC drill layer, so I re-generated the file exactly as before but with "ncdrill" in the file name, replacing the original file in the ZIP.

I sent the new ZIP and my board is now, apparently, being fabricated. Hurrah!

I wonder if there's a language barrier problem? Maybe their front end software looks for files with "nc" or "drill" in the filename, and can't find the drill file otherwise?

[asmi]

AllPCB came back with another request for the NC drill layer, so I re-generated the file exactly as before but with "ncdrill" in the file name, replacing the original file in the ZIP.

I sent the new ZIP and my board is now, apparently, being fabricated. Hurrah!

I wonder if there's a language barrier problem? Maybe their front end software looks for files with "nc" or "drill" in the filename, and can't find the drill file otherwise?

What was the drills' file name first time around? I used three different CAD suites over time (DipTrace, KiCAD and now Orcad), and all of them had drill files with .drl extension. Never had such problem.

[mrpackethead]

That is a new one
My files are all named   projectname.ext   ( ext being    GTO, GBO etc etc )..   My Drill files are always just a .TXT    so projectname.txt

I alwyas include the EXTREP file in my gerbrers,

[AndyC_772]

What was the drills' file name first time around?

The file was named along the lines of ABC01_A-1-4.drl.

The 'ABC01_A' portion indicates the project name and revision. '1-4' indicates that the holes should be drilled through layers 1-4, and .drl clearly isn't as meaningful as I thought it was!

Seriously... if you think you need a file, and there's exactly one file in the ZIP archive that hasn't been used yet, what would you do?

a) ask the customer to send the 'missing' file, or
b) check and see what the extra file you already have actually is?

[pulsar123]

Here are the scans of the first allpcb's boards I received (scanned at a ridiculous resolution of 1600 dpi). Beautiful. I can't believe they are making a profit with these - I got 7 of 10x10cm boards with free DHL shipping (35 hours to ship to Canada), for 5.50$ total. Just shipping is probably more than that. I suspect the free shipping part is a limited time thing, while they are trying to expand their market share.

This is my first digitally designed PCB, and first professionally manufactured one. I spent my teen years many years ago designing PCBs on a piece of millimeter paper, drawing tracks by hand with a pen, and etching them. It worked, but the quality was nothing compared to these. And it's so affordable. From now on creativity will be the only limitation for my projects .

BTW I don't see any issues with my pads, despite the allpcb's concerns (I lost 2 days because of that). I think the company was overzealous.

allpcb.com PCB, back by First Last, on Flickr

allpcb.com PCB, front by First Last, on Flickr

[imidis]

Glad you got it straight! Since you are in Canada did DHL charge any brokerage fees?

[pulsar123]

No extra charge from DHL. 5.50$ US was my total expenses.

[mrpackethead]

a .drl extention is very commonly used as a drill rack file.. To put your drill file data in that is unusal.    While the file names are only 'suggestive' rather than absolutely requried, i'd suggest to you that your Drill files should be named with something other than .drl,  Mine typuicallyk are called      filename-plated.txt   and filename-nonplated.txt  ( default naming out of altium )

[mrpackethead]

BTW I don't see any issues with my pads, despite the allpcb's concerns (I lost 2 days because of that). I think the company was overzealous.

What where their concerns?

[asmi]

a .drl extention is very commonly used as a drill rack file.. To put your drill file data in that is unusal.    While the file names are only 'suggestive' rather than absolutely requried, i'd suggest to you that your Drill files should be named with something other than .drl,  Mine typuicallyk are called      filename-plated.txt   and filename-nonplated.txt  ( default naming out of altium )

It doesn't matter what extensions are as long as fab's CAM engineer can figure out what file is what. I usually include "!Info.txt" file along with Gerbers where I explain what file is what, as well as type all other requirements I have for manufacturing (like process, or required stackup, controlled impedance specifications, etc.). Never had any issues or questions since I started doing that.

[asmi]

No extra charge from DHL. 5.50$ US was my total expenses.

DHL will charge HST+brokerage fee if customs value of shipment is above $100 CAD (AFAIK). Now, you can always ask your shipper to specify lower customs value in commercial invoice, but I would not advise doing that if you're buying boards for business. You can get HST back via ITC anyway, but CRA might ask some unpleasant questions if audit will show up and discover that amount actually paid does not match customs value.

[mrpackethead]

a .drl extention is very commonly used as a drill rack file.. To put your drill file data in that is unusal.    While the file names are only 'suggestive' rather than absolutely requried, i'd suggest to you that your Drill files should be named with something other than .drl,  Mine typuicallyk are called      filename-plated.txt   and filename-nonplated.txt  ( default naming out of altium )

It doesn't matter what extensions are as long as fab's CAM engineer can figure out what file is what. I usually include "!Info.txt" file along with Gerbers where I explain what file is what, as well as type all other requirements I have for manufacturing (like process, or required stackup, controlled impedance specifications, etc.). Never had any issues or questions since I started doing that.

No it doesnt, however its good to make it simple.    Also allpcb has an 'extra' information box in your order. thats a really good place to put the info.

[pulsar123]

BTW I don't see any issues with my pads, despite the allpcb's concerns (I lost 2 days because of that). I think the company was overzealous.

What where their concerns?

See my post #49 here.

[phil from seattle]

Generally, each PCB house has their own preferred naming schemes.  PCBWay points people to the sparkfun CAM file for Eagle. That uses .TXT as the drill extension. I think Seeed and ALLPCB borrowed it from PCBWay.

I've got my 7th job going at ALLPCB, number 6 shows up on Tuesday, put in on Thursday. That's calendar 5 days delivered.  It still blows my mind - $5.49 for 10 boards in less than a week. Faster than ordering something from Amazon. I'm really working down my "wish I had a PCB for that" list. #7 is an AtmelICE adapter board. I'll have nine copies to give to friends.

[mrpackethead]

Generally, each PCB house has their own preferred naming schemes.  PCBWay points people to the sparkfun CAM file for Eagle. That uses .TXT as the drill extension. I think Seeed and ALLPCB borrowed it from PCBWay.

I've got my 7th job going at ALLPCB, number 6 shows up on Tuesday, put in on Thursday. That's calendar 5 days delivered.  It still blows my mind - $5.49 for 10 boards in less than a week. Faster than ordering something from Amazon. I'm really working down my "wish I had a PCB for that" list. #7 is an AtmelICE adapter board. I'll have nine copies to give to friends.

Altium using .TXT by default for NC files as well.

[pulsar123]

I used the KiCAD's default naming for drilling files (project.drl and project-NPTH.drl) and allpcb had no issues with them. Perhaps it depends on a particular person handling your case?

On a separate note - does anyone know what is the minimal number of identical boards the allpcb's facility can produce without a waste? Their minimal order is 5; I think they always add extra 2 boards, so I received 7. The problem is that I only need one, maximum three (just in case), the rest is a waste. If I knew that they can manufacture two without a waste, I'd ask them to do that (even if it's the same price) - this waste is really not good for the environment.

[AndyC_772]

a .drl extention is very commonly used as a drill rack file.. To put your drill file data in that is unusal.

.drl is the default extension used by Cadence, which should make it as close to an industry standard as there is. It certainly shouldn't be so unusual as to cause confusion.

Funnily enough I had exactly the same problem with another job I sent them on Friday. I even put 'ncdrill' in the file name this time, but they still queried it. I re-sent the exact same file, and now my job is being fabricated.

At the end of the day it's just a minor inconvenience, and it's cost me a day or two in delays. Not a big deal on this occasion, but it's still deeply strange. I may have to revise my previously held mantra, that there's no such thing as a stupid question.

[imidis]

On a separate note - does anyone know what is the minimal number of identical boards the allpcb's facility can produce without a waste? Their minimal order is 5; I think they always add extra 2 boards, so I received 7. The problem is that I only need one, maximum three (just in case), the rest is a waste. If I knew that they can manufacture two without a waste, I'd ask them to do that (even if it's the same price) - this waste is really not good for the environment.

The sad part I think if you requested that they would probably just make the same amount and toss the extras. Thanks for letting me know about DHL, I won't be afraid to use it on small orders.

The amount of general waste in the world is a shame. I think the most appealing thing about learning repairs (electrical or otherwise) and even re-purpose.

Depending on the project, if possible I think the best we can do getting them made is make it as repurposable as possible.

I'm just getting into this, but one order of mine only suites 2 purposes, but they can be used to make new or repair (solar lights)

The other is pretty simple but I did put an ICSP header and made sure all the pins are able to be hooked up to it, so at minimum I have a development board but I could within the limitations of the chip repurpose it from something else. (LED lighting via PWM outputs is the intended purpose) The next version I'm adding in a boost chip so rechargable batteries can be used. But on the plus side I will still be able to use these boards

I'm a big fan of not throwing things away if they can be repaired or repurposed.

[phil from seattle]

Yeah, the waste thing is an issue. I general try to design my boards so they can be used for several purposes. I have a focus rail controller board that can be used for a number of camera related projects, for example.

On an earlier point, I have done a number of boards through ALLPCB and have never gotten extras. 

[Monkeh]

Just had my first AllPCB run through - pretty good.

Silk's clear (much, much better than JLCPCB), although they tweaked sizes a bit which has caused some issues - I'd rather they have left that alone or asked first.. or at least noticed the overlaps.

One board has a blob stuck in the mask, which is weird. And a majority have an.. odd pattern in the copper under the mask. It's hard to see, but it's the same pattern across all of them.

HASL's not great - had much flatter.

No real complaints for $5.49 for these simple boards.

[wraper]

lthough they tweaked sizes a bit which has caused some issues - I'd rather they have left that alone or asked first.. or at least noticed the overlaps.

Did you check the gerber files? I don't know what program you are using, but I've stumbled in Proteus that silkscreen that you see while creating layout and what's in the gerber has slightly different size / position.