SMT660 or KAYO1706

[48X24X48X]

Haven't read through the entire thread, pushed for time right now, but, after lots of initial problems with my SMT550 its placed around 15,000 parts now fairly trouble free. Its dropped about 200 parts and misplaced about 60. Its all in the set up and yes, the documentation is worse than terrible. It does still have issues with LQFP-176 parts that I cannot for the life of me fix but with my low volume production, it places the parts close enough that I can manually nudge them into position and reflow the board without solder bridges and cold joints. At your volume though, it would not be ideal.

My biggest issue currently is that 12mm and 16mm feeders struggle with keeping the pins on the drive wheel in the holes in the tape and it stops advancing the tape after a random number of parts. That said, if I needed a bigger machine, I would consider the SMT660 now that I am more familiar with the software and the hardware nuances.

Check your air supply. It seems to be struggling to provide enough air consistently to push the larger feeders. You can experiment this by spreading out the sequence of picking from the larger feeder for the entire process. Also how tall is the components for the 12mm/16mm? The pocket might be too tall for the feeder could also be a cause but I believe is the former. I don't face this issue though.

[JMG]

Air supply is fine at 95psi into the machine and calculated 6.9cfm available, it is definitely a mechanical issue. The tape just pushes up and the pins on the drive wheel pop out of the holes in the tape and spin without moving the tape forward. It would seem that either longer pins or some downward pressure on the tape would fix this.

[Mangozac]

Air supply is fine at 95psi into the machine and calculated 6.9cfm available, it is definitely a mechanical issue. The tape just pushes up and the pins on the drive wheel pop out of the holes in the tape and spin without moving the tape forward. It would seem that either longer pins or some downward pressure on the tape would fix this.

Are they Yamaha CL style feeders? There is an adjustment on the side to set the height that the part that covers the top of the tape sits at once locked into the machine. We found that we had to adjust this on all of our larger feeders. If you set it too tightly the tape has too much friction. Too loose and the sprocket will skip.

Edit: Sorry guys I realised that this adjustment only exists on the 24mm feeders.

[alexaraujo]

Yesterday I asked HGWC for a discount to close at USD 16,900 the feeders, PNP and reflow oven. I am waiting the answer.

In Brazil there is a 14% exemption of one of the tax rates until 12/31/2021 for PnP machines, that is, even with exemption I must pay something around 20% of taxes.

[alexaraujo]

Air supply is fine at 95psi into the machine and calculated 6.9cfm available, it is definitely a mechanical issue. The tape just pushes up and the pins on the drive wheel pop out of the holes in the tape and spin without moving the tape forward. It would seem that either longer pins or some downward pressure on the tape would fix this.

Are they Yamaha CL style feeders? There is an adjustment on the side to set the height that the part that covers the top of the tape sits at once locked into the machine. We found that we had to adjust this on all of our larger feeders. If you set it too tightly the tape has too much friction. Too loose and the sprocket will skip.

Do you have a video of this procedure? I was wondering how to adjust components high by going through a feeder.

[Mangozac]

Do you have a video of this procedure? I was wondering how to adjust components high by going through a feeder.

It doesn't set the component height. It's to account for the tape thickness.

I've attached a photo showing the adjustment screw and the spot that gets adjusted. Edit: note that this is a 24mm feeder only.

[48X24X48X]

Do you have a video of this procedure? I was wondering how to adjust components high by going through a feeder.

It doesn't set the component height. It's to account for the tape thickness.

I've attached a photo showing the adjustment screw and the spot that gets adjusted.

Thank you for sharing but I believe this part only exist on 24 mm and larger feeder. For the 12 mm and 16 mm, it is the cover I believe that is a lot harder to take out.

[Mangozac]

Thank you for sharing but I believe this part only exist on 24 mm and larger feeder. For the 12 mm and 16 mm, it is the cover I believe that is a lot harder to take out.

Yes you're right. I edited my first post to add that comment but didn't also state it in my post with the photo. I'll edit that post too.

[alexaraujo]

Do you have a video of this procedure? I was wondering how to adjust components high by going through a feeder.

It doesn't set the component height. It's to account for the tape thickness.

I've attached a photo showing the adjustment screw and the spot that gets adjusted. Edit: note that this is a 24mm feeder only.

Good night, Thanks for sharing.

Today complete trading with HWGC, we closed the total amount at USD 17,700.00 all. They will have to change the reflow oven to 220v three-phase because in my company it's all 220v

[alexaraujo]

My import agent is finalizing the documentation and if everything works out within 50 days, my Pnp will be inside my company.

Now I have to make the structure of the compressor. At the company I have a 250 liter and 175 PSI. Today it feeds two machining centers, pneumatic screwdrivers. Will it be enough?

From the comments in other threads I will have to install a filter and a dryer before the PnP input, right?

[SMTech]

Air to a pick & place should always be clean and dry. The compressors supplying the air should ideally be running at 30-50% capacity max to give them a good life and you a good supply. If you have other appliances using that same supply I would think you at least need an extra tank to buffer the air supply, once you have one of those keep an aye on the compressor, if its running non-stop you're working it too hard. I would also fit your air receiver tanks with an auto-drain if they don't have one, its so much less hassle than doing it by hand, I got a really cheap one off eBay and its been doing a very convincing job for the last 7 years.

[alexaraujo]

In mine boards I have 6mm high electrolytic capacitors, when placing the next component after the electrolytic, there is no risk of the head hitting it and removing it from its place? Is there a configuration for this?

Once all the configuration setup of the smt660 machine for a certain board is done and we produce a batch of it, in the future it will be enough to import the last production file and run the machine?

How to work with d-pak components in smt660 it has in the analysis library of this component?

Is it possible to integrate to my stock system through cvs, xml or something like that with SMT660 or Kayo?

Has anyone used label feeders on kayo or smt660?

[Mangozac]

In mine boards I have 6mm high electrolytic capacitors, when placing the next component after the electrolytic, there is no risk of the head hitting it and removing it from its place? Is there a configuration for this?
Yes, that is a risk. You will need to tweak the placement order to ensure that collisions don't happen. These software on these low-to-medium end machines is not aware of component height for working out placement order.

Once all the configuration setup of the smt660 machine for a certain board is done and we produce a batch of it, in the future it will be enough to import the last production file and run the machine?
Theoretically yes, but in practice you always end up having to tweak something. Maybe a part previously on a reel is now in a tube.

How to work with d-pak components in smt660 it has in the analysis library of this component?
Should be no problem, there will be vision settings to tweak for it but it's really no more complex than other parts.

Is it possible to integrate to my stock system through cvs, xml or something like that with SMT660 or Kayo?
Anything is possible if you want to program it but the software doesn't do it out-of-the-box. Kayo now use an accessdb structure for their library and project files.

Has anyone used label feeders on kayo or smt660?
No but so long as they don't require a special nozzle I don't see why it wouldn't work.

[alexaraujo]

In mine boards I have 6mm high electrolytic capacitors, when placing the next component after the electrolytic, there is no risk of the head hitting it and removing it from its place? Is there a configuration for this?
Yes, that is a risk. You will need to tweak the placement order to ensure that collisions don't happen. These software on these low-to-medium end machines is not aware of component height for working out placement order.

Once all the configuration setup of the smt660 machine for a certain board is done and we produce a batch of it, in the future it will be enough to import the last production file and run the machine?
Theoretically yes, but in practice you always end up having to tweak something. Maybe a part previously on a reel is now in a tube.

How to work with d-pak components in smt660 it has in the analysis library of this component?
Should be no problem, there will be vision settings to tweak for it but it's really no more complex than other parts.

Is it possible to integrate to my stock system through cvs, xml or something like that with SMT660 or Kayo?
Anything is possible if you want to program it but the software doesn't do it out-of-the-box. Kayo now use an accessdb structure for their library and project files.

Has anyone used label feeders on kayo or smt660?
No but so long as they don't require a special nozzle I don't see why it wouldn't work.

thanks very much. With your information I'm getting deeper into the world of pnp

[alexaraujo]

Can anyone tell me what the level of loss of components that fall off the board or are normally discarded in a PNP after verification by the cameras?

[alexaraujo]

A fair amount of missing components

[MR]

The picture is poor, and how many drops do you have per 100 or 1000 components?

My opinion drops in the lower/mid quality built machines are usually the result of poor software.
Of course some manufacturers will try to tell the user they should configure it a different way but that argument just covers a poor software integration.
Optical component detection is not difficult but it needs experience and if manufacturers do not have the manpower to figure it out themselves then they will need help from customers.

I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer about that issue, if they're helpful good if not put your statement into the forum so other people know where they are.

[48X24X48X]

A fair amount of missing components

Just a video that John did during his early days of owning the machine specifically on trying to understand how to use it. I don't think a generalization like that is justified. Be patient and wait, your machine will arrive, and you will know by then how it will work out.

[alexaraujo]

A fair amount of missing components

Just a video that John did during his early days of owning the machine specifically on trying to understand how to use it. I don't think a generalization like that is justified. Be patient and wait, your machine will arrive, and you will know by then how it will work out.

thanks, i'm really looking forward to it. I believe that within 45 it will be in Brazil

[alexaraujo]

Pnp is already on its way to Brazil

[alexaraujo]

Today I received an email from Kayo comprehension of HWGC's offer.

US$18200, includes

1x KAYO-1706-3DSG
25X 8MM pneumatic feeder
7x 8MM electric feeder
4x 12mm pneumatic feeder
4x 16mm pneumatic feeder
2x 24mm pneumatic feeder
1x 44mm pneumatic feeder
1x 3-tube vibration feeder
1x KAYO-RF630
1x Kit spare parts