JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap

[janekm]

JLC have since last year (I think) been offering a prototype PCB assembly service. It's very interesting because they run it very differently from anyone else (that I'm aware of). So far this service is only offered within mainland China, though presumably they will offer it at some point through their International website as well. The price is starting at 50RMB for 10 boards assembled (in addition to the PCBM fee which is typically also 50RMB), or <$8.

- They can only place a limited set of components that they have defined. So far there are 6343 in their list (though perhaps 80% of those are "extended" parts which require an additional fee, presumably those are not already loaded on the P&P robots). They are doing a fairly good job of including popular parts such as CP2102 / CP2104, some basic logic chips, common LDOs, opamps, AVRs, STM32s ,STC.
- They offer their own component library for the parts they have defined (Altium, PADS are supported). Of course EasyEDA also has those components, though surprisingly so far the integration doesn't work as well as with the Altium component library.
- I get the sense that the service is highly automated. They have to have two tooling holes on each PCB (which apparently can be holes that are already in the design if they are indicated on the gerbers, I haven't worked this process out yet). I assume they are using solder paste dispensing robots rather than stencil as they don't require a stencil file and the un-mounted pads do not have solder on them.
- You can choose either 2 or 10 PCBs to be assembled.
- You have to buy all the components they place from them (makes sense), the price is not excessive (but more than the cheapest Shenzhen price). Not an issue for prototypes, of course. For reference, my all-in price for the 10 pieces I had assembled, which include two quite expensive components (MPU6050 and CP2104), was 466RMB, or $68. 300RMB out of that was those two expensive components.
- They have developed online tooling for doing the DFM check with preview pictures of placement and polarity of each component. Very nice. Their DFM check appears to be a bit overly fussy so far as it keeps complaining about pad angle from parts from their own component library (but placed no problem in the end).
- I ordered a set on the 22nd and have the boards in front of me today, the 26th. They don't offer a rush service but can't really complain about that anyway 

I have to say I'm pretty impressed... It's a pretty innovative way of running a prototype PCB assembly service.

I am planning to make a little Youtube video on how the ordering process works as it's quite interesting. Let me know any suggestions for what to include. Might take a while though as I'm not a professional youtuber 

In theory it should be possible to order this service from overseas by using a "Taobao agent", though it may be easier to just wait for JLC to offer it internationally.

[mrpackethead]

Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.

[janekm]

Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.

It's part of their portal if you make an account on their Chinese site: https://www.sz-jlc.com/

The SMT service is described further here: https://www.sz-jlc.com/portal/newV2/smt.jsp
There's pictures of rows of P&P machines, one is labeled 5-FR(35-1) suggesting there may be quite a few of them, which would be the easiest (though not cheap to set up...) way to run this kind of service. That's my working hypothesis so far... that they have enough p&p machines to handle all the basic components and a few extra to support the extended component range.

The PCBA part of the service is super-fast, my PCBs left QC in the PCBM part of the factory at 15:51 on Tuesday, were p&p at 16:56, QCd at 00:56 on Wednesday, and in my hands by 19:00 on Wednesday. Not much time for any kind of manual processing.
I've got another board going through it right now, just entered the PCBA department at 18:34 this evening so I'll be impressed if they get that shipped tonight 

And the Altium libraries are here:  http://club.szlcsc.com/article/details_963_1.html (Needs an account on gitee which is a kind of Chinese github clone).

[janekm]

Also just found a publicly accessible component list: https://www.sz-jlc.com/home/smtComponentList.html

Also does mention that they have 32 p&p machines and don't change the feeders on the basic library components.

According to their website they have 689 basic components and 4000 extended, but the database already shows more than that.

[newbie666]

Really interested in development of this thread. Having boards assembled for 8 bucks a pop sounds like a dream - even if I have to limit myself to the parts they have in stock.

Would you be able to reach out to their customer service (since you already have an account on chinese website) to ask if they will ever offer that service outside of China?

Do you have your boards shipped abroad or you're based in China as well?

[Mr. Scram]

Really interested in development of this thread. Having boards assembled for 8 bucks a pop sounds like a dream - even if I have to limit myself to the parts they have in stock.

Would you be able to reach out to their customer service (since you already have an account on chinese website) to ask if they will ever offer that service outside of China?

Do you have your boards shipped abroad or you're based in China as well?

I'd also be interested in the quality of the parts used.

[bitseeker]

Following to see how this develops for international ordering.

[janekm]

Sorry for the late response, I've been on holiday (following the local custom in China...).

Yes, the parts are the same ones as sold by LCSC who seem to have a good reputation for stocking original parts compared to other Chinese distributors. I haven't used them much myself so can't comment beyond what I heard from others.

I'll see whether I can get some information from their marketing department about International ordering. I don't imagine the regular customer support staff would know about those sorts of plans.

Yes I'm based in Shenzhen so I can just get the boards shipped to me directly with same/next day delivery 

My second set of boards arrived, seems they still managed to send them out just before heading on holiday which is nice to see. Haven't got all the other components necessary to build it up yet though.

[bd139]

I’ve just received a couple of orders from LCSC. All parts seem good. In fact I’ve been evaluating some of the smaller brand parts as well and they’re all good. No more expensive LDOs for me.

I’ve ordered a few boards from JLCPCB as well now. Genuinely I am impressed so far. Assembly is very interesting to me as I’m hand assembling prototypes at the moment so if they can put down the more difficult packages that opens a whole new world to me.

[mrpackethead]

I've bought many hundreds of reels of passives from them,  lots of connectors, and some IC's..   They are not that good ( price wise ) at Microcontrollers and special purpose Chips.. However no issues with the parts that i have had from them.   Their web site however is just insane.

[bd139]

I think the MCU and some of the special purpose parts have a pretty tight supply chain when it comes to pricing.

I'm quite impressed with one thing. I get through a lot of 3.3V and 5V LDOs. Decided to try some non mainstream brand ones from "Guangdong Hottech" which is a Holtek 7550 clone. You simply can't get anything this low in the UK from major disties and at $0.05 a go low volume it makes a big dent in a BOM. Amazingly over the spread of 10 I tested SOA, transient response, shorts, overloads, drop-out, they are absolutely spot on.

Web site takes getting used to. It's very noisy.

[mrpackethead]

Yes, really very difficult to use, when you compare to the likes of Digikey.

[janekm]

Well, at least with the PCBA service you don't need to navigate the component distribution side, since it can pick the components from your BOM (if you use their parts library it includes their stock number to match it).
The interface looks like Windows 95 generation but it's quite functional, with some good features like being able to verify parts placement and orientation before final order.

[mrpackethead]

Does their library just have the parts that are avaialble on teh PNP, or everything?

[janekm]

It's only got the parts that are available for no extra charge (presumably these are the ones that are always left on the p&p machines). The website also lists other parts that they can mount for an extra fee (if you use their part number the online tools should identify them, or you can do a search to match them).

[EngiBob]

This is pretty great.  If they can partially assemble a board with all the passives and let me finish the ICs and exotic parts it would open a world of projects I can't afford to get fab'd and am not willing to make by hand.

[mrpackethead]

This is pretty great.  If they can partially assemble a board with all the passives and let me finish the ICs and exotic parts it would open a world of projects I can't afford to get fab'd and am not willing to make by hand.

welcome to EEVBLog Bob.    There are of course tricky issues that make partial assembly a challenge.  For example If you want to use more complex parts that are SMT without a stencil it can be quite a challenge.

[OwO]

Have all the passives on the bottom side and the chips on the top side of the board. That's what I've been doing for all my projects and I can build shit with this with 100s of parts with just minutes of manual labor.

[RobBarter]

Just had a quick re-scan of the JCLPCB website and am I right that assembly is still only available in China (except via the agent route)?

[mrpackethead]

Have all the passives on the bottom side and the chips on the top side of the board. That's what I've been doing for all my projects and I can build shit with this with 100s of parts with just minutes of manual labor.

An interesting idea, but quite restrictive on what you couild build.

[EngiBob]

Thanks.  I'm only really afraid of bga/lga but I've pulled off some for prototypes reflowing with hot air.   I can do LQFP 144s .5mm pitch in about 30 seconds, just healthily tin the pads and then lots of flux, align and drag.  QFNs are a little harder but the same method works and solder paste and a heat gun work surprisingly with a little trial and error on getting the correct amount of paste down.  I mostly do IoT style stuff with MCUs and usually a handful of various ICs.
 I've designed several projects where the large pin counts drive up production costs like crazy and the large amount of passives means I'm not profitable making it by hand due to the time involved.  A single LQFP 144 adds about $1.50-$3.00 per board in China and about $10/board in the US (about $.01-$.02/pin vs $.07/pin US)

[Bauck]

This is very interesting.
I sent them an email asking if they will provide this service internationally in the future and they replied with that the will provide it in the future soon. I don't know if "soon" is a couple of month or a year, and I don't think I will get a more detailed answer, but we will get this globally eventually

It would be interesting though to see a video about the process. Is it possible for someone that dont speak a word Chinese to be able to order? (using an agent ofc).

BTW: doesn't it say 0.01 yuan per joint which is more like 0.0015USD -> 0.21usd for a LQFP144?

[janekm]

This is very interesting.
I sent them an email asking if they will provide this service internationally in the future and they replied with that the will provide it in the future soon. I don't know if "soon" is a couple of month or a year, and I don't think I will get a more detailed answer, but we will get this globally eventually

It would be interesting though to see a video about the process. Is it possible for someone that dont speak a word Chinese to be able to order? (using an agent ofc).

BTW: doesn't it say 0.01 yuan per joint which is more like 0.0015USD -> 0.21usd for a LQFP144?

Yes you're right 1 Fen (0.01RMB) per joint. Which is cheap for prototype assembly even in China.

I don't speak / read much Chinese and I managed to make it work. Takes a bit of clicking around the website to figure out the flow. Basically you order the PCBs first, ticking the box that assembly is desired. Then upload the PCBA files, go through the process of linking component names to the ones in their database (you can search for each component and pick from a pop-up window), confirm which components you want assembled, verify the rough picture of component placements, then wait for their staff to "audit" the order, then pay for PCBM & PCBA together. Finally they will produce a more detailed placement picture.
I found the flow a little easier uploading the Altium file directly rather than gerbers / P&P files as their agents filled in some of the needed info already (but I had to re-upload the BOM as they didn't match all the headers the way I intended).

It might be easier to make it work with a forwarding company rather than a regular taobao agent (as a normal agent just wouldn't know how to deal with that kind of order). You'll also need someone to top up an Alipay account so you can pay (again there's some companies offering that service from what I recall).

I tried convincing them to make a video of their facility but they were understandably keen to protect their competitive advantage (I do think they do a few clever things to assemble multiple orders together). They did say they were going to offer International orders some time this year.

[DerRiedi]

Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.

It's part of their portal if you make an account on their Chinese site: https://www.sz-jlc.com/

Can you tell me how I make an account if I have no chinese phone number? 

[eddperks]

FYI I have been asking Dillon off the Easy EDA forum (part of the JLC group) about international PCBA services for a while now, and he has said they are coming 'soon' for nearly a year now!

Lets all drop them emails requesting the international PCBA to let them know we want it.

[ev4n]

Hi,

It's about to launch (i was told end of July):
https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly

From everything i've read here and playing around there are a couple of ways of using this:
1) Browse LCSC for stock, then search Altium GIT libraries for the same part
2) Using EasyEDA browse components using the "SMT" library option and drop them on a blank schematic. You can then export the schematics and PCB footprints.

Option 2) looks like the best way to go since you can check the stock levels and maybe the symbols/footprints/part numbers etc will be more compatible with their system.

I've created a template Altium project with JLCPCB rules, stack-up for 4-layer board and placed a bunch of common parts (0402, 0603, 0805 caps/res etc) on a blank schematic. Will share once i've had a chance to submit using their SMT line.

[bd139]

Thanks for the heads up. Really interested in this. 

[mrpackethead]

pcb fab spamming ?

[bd139]

Possible but it's on topic and informative and 100% in context in this case so I'm ok with it.

[sokoloff]

Possible but it's on topic and informative and 100% in context in this case so I'm ok with it.

I'm always on guard for slippery slopes, but I have to agree 100% in this specific case.

[Simon]

Thats funny' two first time posters immediately hitting it off, hm, OK I'll pretend for now, flinch and your out!

[voltsandjolts]

Yeh, spam. But I am a little bit excited about it so its OK by me.

The 'basic' component list is useful, just getting passives fitted would be a big help.

[EEVblog]

pcb fab spamming ?

Looks that way on the surface, but not evidence behind the scenes.
Another paid PCB voucher program thing if real users promote in other forums?

[thm_w]

1) Browse LCSC for stock, then search Altium GIT libraries for the same part
2) Using EasyEDA browse components using the "SMT" library option and drop them on a blank schematic. You can then export the schematics and PCB footprints.

Option 2) looks like the best way to go since you can check the stock levels and maybe the symbols/footprints/part numbers etc will be more compatible with their system.

For 1) I assume you just mean search through online Altium libs to see if anyone has created it, and there is no official LCSC lib.
2) is cool, didn't realize they had an "Export to Altium" option, surprising.. must mean a lot about the state of the tool in China.

edit: I tried placing one part and altium wouldn't open the schematic file, didn't bother testing further.

[mrpackethead]

1) Browse LCSC for stock, then search Altium GIT libraries for the same part
2) Using EasyEDA browse components using the "SMT" library option and drop them on a blank schematic. You can then export the schematics and PCB footprints.

Option 2) looks like the best way to go since you can check the stock levels and maybe the symbols/footprints/part numbers etc will be more compatible with their system.

For 1) I assume you just mean search through online Altium libs to see if anyone has created it, and there is no official LCSC lib.
2) is cool, didn't realize they had an "Export to Altium" option, surprising.. must mean a lot about the state of the tool in China.

Its very widespread because you can "buy" a copy for 50RMB @ the Huaqiangbei Electronics Market.

[ev4n]

Details on the 'official' library are here (i had to use google translate):

http://club.szlcsc.com/article/details_963_1.html

I don't know who's maintaining it.

The EasyEDA library seems to be complete with symbols/footprints for all the stocked parts. It took me about 15min to create a library with 10 unique parts - good enough for me. I prefer to keep a separate library per project anyway. It's probably quicker than Digikey's symbol/footprint tool.

[Harvs]

Given the cost of a stencil is almost as much as their NRE (which includes the stencil, but you don't get it in the end), when this is up and running there as long as it's not a PITA to get libraries configured for them, I can't see any reason not to use the service (or a similar one from someone else).

[mskeete]

I found that link a few days ago but thought it was already mentioned here otherwise I would have posted it.

Can't wait.

[ev4n]

I pushed them for an updated date and got the following response So i guess sometime this month...

[SMTech]

Interesting, slightly limited perhaps if you want specific brands of things there's some huge gaps in that list. Green green green

[thm_w]

The EasyEDA library seems to be complete with symbols/footprints for all the stocked parts. It took me about 15min to create a library with 10 unique parts - good enough for me. I prefer to keep a separate library per project anyway. It's probably quicker than Digikey's symbol/footprint tool.

This is kind of surprising, they have symbols/footprints for these oddball parts, but then when you go to search by parameters often a lot are missing or not available to search by..
Wonder if they've automated the symbol generation to some extent, or pulled from an existing library.

[Harvs]

So is anyone else running a competing service?

In particular I'm thinking of the very fast turn time on a standard library of parts.  I haven't seen anything else like it from the other suppliers I've used.

Being able to order a prototype board with the majority of jellybean parts mounted for an extra 24hrs really would be a significant change to how I'd do prototyping.

Though I don't understand the 2/4-layer limitation.  A number of times I've used 6-layers on a low quantity design where it made the design easier and quicker to route (and hence cheaper when time is factored in.)  But it would be no different to actually assemble the PCB.

[Harvs]

So I politely asked about the 6-layer thing, the response I got was:

"Thank you for your support,but it is our of our capability now."

So effectively a non-answer.

[mrpackethead]

Was not quite entirely clear where the repo was. but anyway.


git clone https://gitee.com/JLC_SMT/JLCSMT_LIB.git

[sokoloff]

It may be that they don't make 6+ layer boards in the same factory as the PnP equipment and can't take the 6 layer boards in as full panels for downstream processing. Or, it could just be that they predict that not enough people order 6 layer boards for assembly that they'd be running full panels (of mixed boards) and placing components on 1% of the board area or having to handle the 1% of boards by hand (not as panels).

[OwO]

They are using one big stencil per panel and that only works if there are enough customer designs to combine onto a panel, all of which must be PCBA orders.

[Harvs]

That makes sense re volume of orders for 6-layer.  I guess in time that'll change.

Just looking at their website now, the price has gone down even further.  So now the setup fee is less than buying a stencil. Unbelievable...

"Prices start at $7.00 set up fee,$0.002 assembly fee per joint. No stencil charges"

[TimCambridge]

I looked at one part: XC7A75T-2FGG484I. Around $130 at Digi and Mouser, $26 at LCSC. A mistake I expect, or is this another wrinkle in the Chinese market?

[ataradov]

The prices are probably real, I also noticed a few ICs that are way too expensive on DigiKey, yet very cheap on LCSC. But I've been tracking availability over time, and it is not good. So you may get those 50 pcs, and nothing after.

[mrpackethead]

I looked at one part: XC7A75T-2FGG484I. Around $130 at Digi and Mouser, $26 at LCSC. A mistake I expect, or is this another wrinkle in the Chinese market?

Digi and Mouser are extremely easy, but extremely expensive.   

[Styno]

I looked at one part: XC7A75T-2FGG484I. Around $130 at Digi and Mouser, $26 at LCSC. A mistake I expect, or is this another wrinkle in the Chinese market?

Digi and Mouser are extremely easy, but extremely expensive.

True, but their shipment quality is way better for it.

Usually I buy full reels from LCSC which is fine, but yesterday I received a few partial reels with LED's (because they didn't have full reels at hand) and those MSL 3 (168 hours) devices came on a reel inside a plastic bubble bag. When you get such devices from Mouser, Digi or Element14 they are packaged airtight anti-static with desiccant bag, moisture indicator card and a note referring to the MSL level.

However, a reel of international brand resistors from LCSC is $2.5 while the same from e.g. Mouser costs €15, that is a big difference. Excluding shipping for LCSC which is included for Mouser so LCSC only works out cheaper when buying multiple reels.

[thm_w]

Digi and Mouser are extremely easy, but extremely expensive.

Yes but thats not telling the full story here: https://octopart.com/search?q=XC7A75T-2FGG484I
They likely ended up buying the parts cheap, maybe from production overrun or similar, so try to dump them for a relatively low price.

[mrpackethead]

SZLCSC is extremely huge.   I dont' know how much of china's electronics they supply but its massive. They have buying power that rivals everthing.,

[nigelwright7557]

I have used JLCPCB quite a few times now and had mostly good service.
A couple of times they have thrown pcb's back at me as there was a problem.
The pcb's checked out fine in my cad system so  I just resent the same files and the next time they accepted them !
Must have been a different guy on the second time.

Its a shame they dont do assembly too as the yare very cheap for pcb's.
Getting low quantity SMD pcb's made isn't cheap with PCBWAY.
So what  I have been doing is making my pcb through hole and the vital SMD have been put on a separate small SMD pcb that I could deal with myself.
Fine scale smd is a pain but the faster and more modern ic's are pretty much all smd now.
I have done a few PIC TQFP 64 pin 0.5mm pitch pcb's now and they 3 out of 4 worked fine.

[Fire Doger]

I have used JLCPCB quite a few times now and had mostly good service.
A couple of times they have thrown pcb's back at me as there was a problem.
The pcb's checked out fine in my cad system so  I just resent the same files and the next time they accepted them !
Must have been a different guy on the second time.

Its a shame they dont do assembly too as the yare very cheap for pcb's.

If they didn't accept GERBER then probably they had a fault or wrong settings during export, second time probably just corrected it by themself.

They do assembly, that's the whole point of post. They did it for China and now they will offer it worldwide.

Although to keep the cost low they accept only parts from their libraries to loading the reels on machines and setup the software which is the most time consuming part of the process.

[tszaboo]

So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?

[langwadt]

So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?

I'd expect that to be the only cost effective way to do it

[mrpackethead]

So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?

This is exactly how i run my PNP in our fab.   We now have 3 machines, end end on end with about 240 parts loaded..  THat lets me build nealry 40 differnet products without any significant changes. ( I have to load some trays of IC"s sometimes ). 

The job is split between the machines.

JLCPCB, prboably has 20 in a a line.

[Ribster]

So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?

This is exactly how i run my PNP in our fab.   We now have 3 machines, end end on end with about 240 parts loaded..  THat lets me build nealry 40 differnet products without any significant changes. ( I have to load some trays of IC"s sometimes ). 

The job is split between the machines.

JLCPCB, prboably has 20 in a a line.

Which pnp machines do you have mrpackethead ?

[mrpackethead]

Which pnp machines do you have mrpackethead ?

2 x Yamaha YV100-ii and 1 x Yamaha YV100-xg

[ev4n]

The export method using easyeda.com to Altium has some issues:
- Symbols for a component that are split up i.e. U1_A, U1_B don't get imported into Altium properly
- 3D models are not imported

But good news is LCSC.com's CAD library helper "ECAD Models" is really nice albeit a little hacky. It's a Altium "plug-in" that allows you search then directly drop parts onto the schematic page complete with footprint and 3D model. It's missing the LCSC parameters required for SMT like the LCSC part number but i these can be easily added. It's cross platform and as more people use these models they will become more reliable.

Count down the days of having to place a hundred jellybean parts.

I assume they will also apply paste to the pads of components they can't SMT. This is actually going to a huge time/$$$ saver as this will make placing QFNs a breeze with preheating plate, hotair and a lot of flux.

[ev4n]

ETA is now September 

[wilhe_jo]

Any hints about KiCad?

To me it seems they're software-agnostic as long as you use their CPL and BOM format.
This Altium-ecad-library discussion did confuse me a little bit, tough.

73

[ddavidebor]

Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.

It's part of their portal if you make an account on their Chinese site: https://www.sz-jlc.com/

The SMT service is described further here: https://www.sz-jlc.com/portal/newV2/smt.jsp
There's pictures of rows of P&P machines, one is labeled 5-FR(35-1) suggesting there may be quite a few of them, which would be the easiest (though not cheap to set up...) way to run this kind of service. That's my working hypothesis so far... that they have enough p&p machines to handle all the basic components and a few extra to support the extended component range.

The PCBA part of the service is super-fast, my PCBs left QC in the PCBM part of the factory at 15:51 on Tuesday, were p&p at 16:56, QCd at 00:56 on Wednesday, and in my hands by 19:00 on Wednesday. Not much time for any kind of manual processing.
I've got another board going through it right now, just entered the PCBA department at 18:34 this evening so I'll be impressed if they get that shipped tonight 

And the Altium libraries are here:  http://club.szlcsc.com/article/details_963_1.html (Needs an account on gitee which is a kind of Chinese github clone).

Could you upload somewhere their library? I am very curious

[TimCambridge]

ETA is now September 

Is there an update on this, it's nearly September...

[henla464]

I asked them a few days ago and got this reply:

"Actually we are trying to set about to open SMT service for the international markets gradually in early September this year.
Now it's in internal testing stage."

Yesterday I got another email with this: "This email is to notify you that the SMT Assembly service from JLCPCB will be start soon. So we want to invite you to be our first test customer." They then asked me to prepare the gerbers, pnp files etc...There wasn't any special link included or anything so I don't think I will be able to order before they open for everyone.

/Henrik

[ddavidebor]

Let's cross our fingers... I've got a 200 component board i need manufactured in just 5pcs...

[henla464]

Yes fingers crossed!

I looked at the basic component list and I noticed there are no capacitors on that list. Anyone got an idea why they haven't added some common capacitors to the basic component list? (or did I just not see them?)

[thm_w]

Yes fingers crossed!

I looked at the basic component list and I noticed there are no capacitors on that list. Anyone got an idea why they haven't added some common capacitors to the basic component list? (or did I just not see them?)

Where is the basic list? Maybe for cost reasons.
This list has tons of capacitors: https://jlcpcb.com/video/jlcsmt_parts_library.xls

[henla464]

Ah I now see that they are there but under the category "Inductors (SMD)". Thank you!

[yombo]

Hi!

Are there in the list any connectors? (Basic or extended) I can't find any. I would be interested in a micro USB connector (SMT of course)

I ask because I also didn't find the capacitors because they are mis-categorized.

[henla464]

I only had a quick look but also didn't see any. Searched for the three first micro-usb partnumbers that I found on lcsc.com in the Excel but got no match for them.

Btw, it says "Quote Now" on SMT Assembly instead of "Coming Soon" (at least I think it said that before). It seem to just go to the PCB ordering form though...

[teksturi]

There is also demo available in this site https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly
someone can test if you modify
https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=yes

to

https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=no

Maybe even order that way?

[ddavidebor]

Currently i am having errors, when pressing "next" nothing happens.

Correct link will probably be https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?orderType=4

[SteveyG]

Yes fingers crossed!

I looked at the basic component list and I noticed there are no capacitors on that list. Anyone got an idea why they haven't added some common capacitors to the basic component list? (or did I just not see them?)

Where is the basic list? Maybe for cost reasons.
This list has tons of capacitors: https://jlcpcb.com/video/jlcsmt_parts_library.xls

From what I found, the excel spreadsheet doesn't line up with the parts that are available for assembly.

There were parts that couldn't be assembled which were in the excel sheet, but there were also a lot of parts available which aren't in that spreadsheet, so things like SMD electrolytic capacitors can now be assembled.

[tglev]

There is also demo available in this site https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly
someone can test if you modify
https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=yes

to

https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=no

Maybe even order that way?

This does not work, sadly.
The next button in the demo does not work either.

It does feel like we're getting closer and closer to getting PCBA!

[juwi]

It is open for test customers.
They still have bugs to fix, but it is going on really cheap. As soon as my project is working through the little bugs I will keep you updated, as of yet I can tell you:

- Gerber Upload as you know
- then you may enable SMT below where Stencil is also
- there you can select whether top or bottom is to be placed
- then you have to upload BOM and CPL
- youll have to confirm each part, which is nicely made with direct access to the datasheets and basics via dropdown in a table
- then you get a render of your pcb with parts where you can check placement

As of now I have some probs with a bunch of resistors they are working on

Best regards
Julian

PS: As the Demo seems to be working now, there shall be no need for screenshots?

[SteveyG]

It is open for test customers.
They still have bugs to fix, but it is going on really cheap. As soon as my project is working through the little bugs I will keep you updated, as of yet I can tell you:

- Gerber Upload as you know
- then you may enable SMT below where Stencil is also
- there you can select whether top or bottom is to be placed
- then you have to upload BOM and CPL
- youll have to confirm each part, which is nicely made with direct access to the datasheets and basics via dropdown in a table
- then you get a render of your pcb with parts where you can check placement

As of now I have some probs with a bunch of resistors they are working on

Best regards
Julian

PS: As the Demo seems to be working now, there shall be no need for screenshots?

I'm uploading a video this weekend to show the order process

[juwi]

they fixed it, my resistors work now

ah yes, no more then 10 so called extended parts are allowed per order.

yours julian

[ddavidebor]

ah yes, no more then 10 so called extended parts are allowed per order.

F**k

[juwi]

na na...

Well, my order is out. I paid less than 10 Dollars for 5 placed boards with some 70 parts each (excluding part/PCB cost of course)

Yes, it is limiting but if you see it as a helping hand preventing you from having to place hundreds of biird feedings like resistors and caps - I like it.
The costly parts I can solder myself after checking the rest. But I dont have to solder some 60 caps and chip resistors. Winner

yours julian

[juwi]

I'm uploading a video this weekend to show the order process

The placement preview stopped working after I added all parts - how many parts has your board?

yours julian

[mskeete]

The placement preview is slow. A few times I thought it had stopped working. On my first attempt I saw nothing as I forgot to convert the placement data to mm

[ddavidebor]

Ok so a suggestion: add a parameter JCLSMT-rotation in your libraries, add it to the pick and place csv file, then use excel to rotate the chips automatically

[SteveyG]

I'm uploading a video this weekend to show the order process

The placement preview stopped working after I added all parts - how many parts has your board?

yours julian

Preview didn't work on mine when I had an error with the file. It got sorted in the audit though

[SteveyG]

na na...

Well, my order is out. I paid less than 10 Dollars for 5 placed boards with some 70 parts each (excluding part/PCB cost of course)

Yes, it is limiting but if you see it as a helping hand preventing you from having to place hundreds of biird feedings like resistors and caps - I like it.
The costly parts I can solder myself after checking the rest. But I dont have to solder some 60 caps and chip resistors. Winner

yours julian

Exactly my thought. Any helping hand to solder all the passives is a winner in my book. Shame its green PCBs only, but that's only due to the early stage. Hopefully if it proves popular more options will exist.

[bitseeker]

Agreed. That's a great time saver for $2/board. Looking forward to seeing the physical results.

[ddavidebor]

Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
 

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.

[mrpackethead]

Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
  (Attachment Link)

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.

Something odd ball going on with your 5 Pin SOT-23's     They all seem 180degrees out.

[ddavidebor]

Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
  (Attachment Link)

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.

Something odd ball going on with your 5 Pin SOT-23's     They all seem 180degrees out.

Yep the only thing straight are resistors and capacitors

[pmnxis]

Hello I am beta user too.

There's some issue, some of rotation value ( Pick and place ) is mismatch.

I fixed it manually open the csv file myself.

About this rotation issue, Mainland china sz-jlc explained it very well. but i think they didn't on international port.

BTW there's some issue price is strange.



price is different between lcsc and jlc-smt.

and even that's correct there's no price MOQ 100 or 1000.

hmm I hope they fix this issue.

[SteveyG]

Hello I am beta user too.

There's some issue, some of rotation value ( Pick and place ) is mismatch.

I fixed it manually open the csv file myself.

About this rotation issue, Mainland china sz-jlc explained it very well. but i think they didn't on international port.

BTW there's some issue price is strange.

price is different between lcsc and jlc-smt.

and even that's correct there's no price MOQ 100 or 1000.

hmm I hope they fix this issue.

On my order, I notice some are cheaper than LCSC and a few more expensive. Nothing dramatic like that opto-isolator though.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

 

[AClockworkOran]

Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.

[Ribster]

Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.

Get a simple toaster oven with a triac. Monitor the temperature and feast on succes!

[AClockworkOran]

Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.

Get a simple toaster oven with a triac. Monitor the temperature and feast on succes!

If I was the one paying i'd have done that a long time ago 

[ddavidebor]

Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.

It's open only to a limited number of existing customers now
If you send an email to the customer service maybe they can enable it for you

[ddavidebor]

(Attachment Link)

For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

Well I am sticking with PCBWAY for now, i got this board manufactured in 3pcs, spent 307 USD, of which:
* 160 of components (i've got 4$ PGAs and 2.5$ rotary switches there...)
* 100 for the 4-layer pcb. This would have been cheaper on JLCPCB, although I do not trust the quality or competence of the technical staff yet
* 30 USD for assembly and purchasing of all components from a variety of suppliers (including LCSC, the same as JLCPCB)
* shipping

So yeah JLCPCB prices are crazy low but hard to compare with the more rounded assembly services and may not end up being the cheapest solution after all

[bitseeker]

Thanks for the comparison, Davide.

[pmnxis]

placed order and paid finally.
There's chinese thanks giving day soon and some legit vacation day. So I guess my order will be delay.
I hope they accept professional business production too even there's higher engineering fee.

I will review my thing is come to me.

[SteveyG]

Assuming there's no problems, you'll probably get it shipped out before the holiday.

Mine has just finished ENIG process, so shouldn't be long now... 

[langwadt]

Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
  (Attachment Link)

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.

Something odd ball going on with your 5 Pin SOT-23's     They all seem 180degrees out.

a good reason to use asymmetrical packages, then it is at least obvious when the rotation is wrong

[mrpackethead]

The biggest problem for me in this, is that unless they can supplky all the components, then a partial assmembly is just not going to be useful.   

[bd139]

It’s fine for first phase production. Most designs can be optimised into their BOM availability. Then you can ship your crap off to another factory for final hand placement or do it yourself. I think I can get my in dev product down to three hand placed parts if I rework some stuff. That’s pretty good and saves me time and money.

Optimisation is key. Compromises need to be made to favour automation and reduced cost.

[spongle]

but at that point is it really cheaper than elecrow, pcbway or some other full service PCBA?

[tom66]

Depends on whether it is a hobby project or not.
A lot of hobby projects I'm much more willing to put time in versus money, even if my "time" is worth more.
Commercial projects where engineers cost £30+ an hour then it's harder to argue when you are saving only £100 or so...

[Mr. Scram]

Depends on whether it is a hobby project or not.
A lot of hobby projects I'm much more willing to put time in versus money, even if my "time" is worth more.
Commercial projects where engineers cost £30+ an hour then it's harder to argue when you are saving only £100 or so...

Engineers for 30 quid an hour?

[mrpackethead]

44-47k Stiring..  is about 22.5 / hour.

[yombo]

It is here, I can place assembly orders already!   

Edit: Where is supposed to be the origin of component coordinates? I can't see my components in the preview.

[ddavidebor]

but at that point is it really cheaper than elecrow, pcbway or some other full service PCBA?

I've posted one example a few post back where it wasn't worth it. It's going to depend primarily on these factors:
* how many of your components they can assemble
    * how many are SMT?
    * how many are in their list?
    * how many are of type "basic" in their list?
* How many they can't?
    * can you get them easily and cheaply? Many suppliers, time spent ordering, shipping cost, duties...
    * are they easy to solder?
* What degree of trustworthiness, experience and reliability do you need?
    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?
* How much is your time worth and what purchasing power does your national currency have against the dollar?

a good reason to use asymmetrical packages, then it is at least obvious when the rotation is wrong

Yep. Love my sot-23-5

[SteveyG]

    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?

The process is better controlled than you're suggesting. They're basically able to offer these boards for this price because your PCBs are being pooled onto the commercial PCB production line otherwise it wouldn't be commercially viable. The manufacture files are reviewed and fixed by their technicians, rotation fixed, placement fixed etc (up to a point...)

[ddavidebor]

    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?

The process is better controlled than you're suggesting. They're basically able to offer these boards for this price because your PCBs are being pooled onto the commercial PCB production line otherwise it wouldn't be commercially viable. The manufacture files are reviewed and fixed by their technicians, rotation fixed, placement fixed etc (up to a point...)

I was referring to the assembly not the PCBs

[Mr. Scram]

44-47k Stiring..  is about 22.5 / hour.

I assume that's what they get paid and not what they cost?

[SteveyG]

    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?

The process is better controlled than you're suggesting. They're basically able to offer these boards for this price because your PCBs are being pooled onto the commercial PCB production line otherwise it wouldn't be commercially viable. The manufacture files are reviewed and fixed by their technicians, rotation fixed, placement fixed etc (up to a point...)

I was referring to the assembly not the PCBs

So was I

[SMTech]

Given JLC et al run  your PCB designs though an engineer & approval process, I see no reason why they wouldn't also be doing some basic checks on your pick and place data , made somewhat easier by the fact they are heavily encouraging you to use standard set of parts they already know. I wouldn't necessarily expect such a process to spot the more annoying centroid file quirks however, the main one being if you have incorrectly defined your component centers so they instead show Pin1 or some other arbitrary co-ordinate. (although even that isn't out of the question if they can overlay placement data onto gerber)

In a previous posting someone suggested the rotation data was based on its rotation in the tape. This might be true in some cases for certain machines (e.g a Versatronics RV) but in actual fact what you should normally be doing is basing your rotation number on established IPC standards which exist for a reason. An example of why that is can be fairly simply demonstrated with the example of an SO8 device in either tape or a tube - potentially exactly the same part packaged two different ways with different rotations as presented to the pick head. If the rotation definition for the part in the tape and the device in the board all refer back to the same standard you can switch between either packing format with ease. Also good luck finding that data in the datasheet, more likely to either not be there at all or in a separate datasheet detailing the specific package in question.

[SteveyG]

I wouldn't necessarily expect such a process to spot the more annoying centroid file quirks however, the main one being if you have incorrectly defined your component centers so they instead show Pin1 or some other arbitrary co-ordinate. (although even that isn't out of the question if they can overlay placement data onto gerber)

They definitely go through and check manually. I had to re-issue my board to include polarity markings on the silkscreen for the LEDs. They also fixed a rotated IC.

[SMTech]

Well rotation is an easy issue to fix & indeed spot. Regardless of who you use, it is very important to mark up LEDs, LED manufacturers are super inconsistent with how they mark up their devices and the technician shouldn't need to wade back though the traces on your circuit to make an educated guess, but IME always put them in the tape the same way round as a standard diode, makes inspection afterwards a real pain however as you can't do it without a datasheet for each LED, even sticking with one manufacturer doesn't help.

Much like the Screaming circuits blogger I typically see default IC rotation out by 270 degrees, data from two clients also rotates 2pin passives which is very odd.

[pmnxis]

mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

[48X24X48X]

mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Is that a short on the RS232 converter IC?

[thm_w]

mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

thanks, looks very good, whats with the optos though? Are you using them for low voltage isolation and not high voltage?

[pmnxis]

I didnt checked yet. I will do this weekend

[pmnxis]

mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

thanks, looks very good, whats with the optos though? Are you using them for low voltage isolation and not high voltage?

I am using for take a 5 or 12volt singnal or even high
I wanna uses 12v input with esp32. So I used Optocoupler.
I tried to use mosftet and tvs diode for this. But my application’s input voltage can be change somtimes (this mean cannot use resistor voltage dividing, maybe).
Well if there’s better solution i want to adapt it. But for now this is my best

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Esp32!   

[avion23]

Has anyone found connectors?

I'm searching for full assembly. The only parts I'm missing are connectors. SMT is fine.

[mskeete]

Nope. Emailed support about that. No response regarding that

[cyberfish]

I also asked them, specifically about USB connectors.

They replied asking me for LCSC part numbers. I gave them a few for USB micro-B. They said they will ask the assembly people to add them, but no guarantees.

That was about a week ago. Doesn't look like they have been added.

I'm holding off my trial run because of that - I can't use a stencil to reflow the missing connectors myself if there are already components on the PCB.

[ebclr]

Do they have a list of those  689 Basic components

Where can I find that fist?

[yombo]

Here is the component database search page link:

https://jlcpcb.com/client/index.html#/parts

[pmnxis]

Wrote some python script for rotate parts in your Pick and Place csv file.

https://github.com/pmnxis/RotatorPnP

It will be useful if you use own footprint library.

I rotated my new revision of PCB with this script.

And checked it's working well in my case.

and you need to check and modify rulebook csv file for your footprint library and components

[stefanh]

I am curious to get the complete list of Basic parts. 

is there a way to display more than 10 items per page?

A spreadsheet with a list of all the Basic parts would be ideal, to assist with making a specific LSCS basic parts library.

[teksturi]

A spreadsheet with a list of all the Basic parts would be ideal, to assist with making a specific LSCS basic parts library.

Here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/jlcpcb-smt-assembly-service-208764/msg2728288/#msg2728288

You cannot trust this list blindly. Always check with tools that JLC gives and updates.

[rrinker]

 I guess I really need to start checking in sections I otherwise wouldn't have much interest in - I don't do SMD at home, but I could make my boards a lot smaller using at least SMD passives and using their assembly service to load them. I use EasyEDA and have my boards made by JLC anyway, the last one I also used the BOM and transferred it to an LCSC order and ordered the parts I needed as well, since I didn't have enough on hand to build them all anyway. Might as well integrate one more step. I've used commercial boards which I suspect used a service such as this to offer a "kit" version in which the micro and all the passives were SMD already soldered on and the only actual assembly for the kit was to add a pair of switches and a pair of leaded 3mm LEDs - saving $2.50 per unit by spending a coupe of minutes soldering.

[DBecker]

I just got back my first run of boards through JLC assembly.

My biggest challenge during ordering was the always-mentioned part rotation.  I believe that they use EIA orientation, which is ad hoc, while Kicad consistently puts pin 1 in the upper left quadrant (or on the left in the degenerate two pin case).  I spent many hours working with Kicad scripting and their use of Python 2 (!) in an attempt to automate or document the correction, but in the end I submitted a hand-edited .CPL file.

Their assembly layout visualization tool was a huge help with this.  It clearly marks the polarity or pin 1 of asymmetric devices with a red dot.  Combined with tweaking the silk screen on a few of my footprints it was easy to verify the rotation.

I didn't experience any case of offset components that others have reported.

I had two issues with the BOM matching.  I added LCSC part numbers to everything I wanted populated, but their system always failed to match one or two components.  I changed the component description, but then some other part wouldn't be matched.  I concluded that this matching failure was related to the position in the CSV file, not some error in the file I was generating.

Because I was trying to automate file generation, I went through the ordering process many times.  I quickly tired of clicking 'Confirm' for each of a few dozen part types.  If I provide the LCSC part number in the BOM CSV, I shouldn't have to click confirm unless there is a suspected mis-match.  And then it should tell me enough to fix it for the next attempt.

Finally, the pricing of some of the part was wrong.  It exactly doubled the price of crystals and regulators between confirming the BOM and presenting the final total.  That only added $2-$3 to the total, not enough for me to delay my order by a few frustrating exchanges with customer service, but worth mentioning in a review.

My boards ended up taking an extra day or two longer than projected, with the delay largely between fabrication and assembly.  That pushed the finish time to Saturday, and the DHL pickup wasn't logged until Monday evening (6:57pm Shenzhen time).  But amazingly DHL delivered the boards to California on Tuesday 1:22pm PST.

[sokoloff]

@DBecker, are any of your tools for automated generation suitable for open source consumption by any chance?

[pmnxis]

I tried to fix rotation automatically by recongnize image on datasheet.
But giving value how many degree to fix myself per part was more effective.

I am glad meet you thought same issue with me and tried to solve this!

[JohnnyBerg]

My boards arrived today. 226 x 40 mm.
I've used EasyEDA, and send the Gerber. BOM and Pick and Place files without any editing. Worked!

[1Ghz]

My boards arrived today, too.

[sokoloff]

Seems like you probably would have wanted to exclude some of those pads from the stencil layer.

[jonroger]

I just submitted an order - it all went fine, just had to rotate one component by editing my CPL file.   

I'm curious - what algorithm might they be using for mapping from my unknown origin to theirs?    Ie, how do they know where   MidX=10,MidY=10 is on the board?

[cyberfish]

I just submitted an order - it all went fine, just had to rotate one component by editing my CPL file.   

I'm curious - what algorithm might they be using for mapping from my unknown origin to theirs?    Ie, how do they know where   MidX=10,MidY=10 is on the board?

Your gerber files use the same origin.

[SMTech]

There's no particular reason for the SMT line to ever see the gerber file. Your co-ordinates give an accurate account of where each component is in relation to each other, add some dimensions and a rough enough location of one Fiducial to get inside the requisite search window and the machine will handle the rest.

[cyberfish]

There's no particular reason for the SMT line to ever see the gerber file. Your co-ordinates give an accurate account of where each component is in relation to each other, add some dimensions and a rough enough location of one Fiducial to get inside the requisite search window and the machine will handle the rest.

Sure, but they don't have fiducials.

[SMTech]

There's no particular reason for the SMT line to ever see the gerber file. Your co-ordinates give an accurate account of where each component is in relation to each other, add some dimensions and a rough enough location of one Fiducial to get inside the requisite search window and the machine will handle the rest.

Sure, but they don't have fiducials.

So they use some other feature as a fiducial and curse you or not using any, its what I'd do...

[cyberfish]

There's no particular reason for the SMT line to ever see the gerber file. Your co-ordinates give an accurate account of where each component is in relation to each other, add some dimensions and a rough enough location of one Fiducial to get inside the requisite search window and the machine will handle the rest.

Sure, but they don't have fiducials.

So they use some other feature as a fiducial and curse you or not using any, its what I'd do...

They panelize designs from different customers, so presumably they add fiducials on the panel? They still need a way to get things to line up within each design, and the only way they can do that is through gerber -> CPL origin mapping.

[nigelwright7557]

I used PCBWAY to start with before I found JLCPCB.
I found PCBWAY a bit more expensive especially on postage.
A couple of GBP on the price might not be much but can push you over the edge into paying import/VAT charges.

[BlackICE]

I also just noticed that they do assembly. Just ordered my 1st board with a through hole design because SMT is a PITA for old hands and eyes. Now with assembly at a reasonable cost SMT is a good option.

I'm just learned DIP Trace and would like to know is there is a easy way to get a DIP trace compatible, basic and extended parts library to easy the pain of parts selection and use.

I guess I can learn to use EASYEDA but I prefer not to. DIP trace is the easiest one that I have tried. Previously played with KiCAD and Eagle.

[up8051]

I am preparing for the first assembly in JLC PCB.
I have small PCB (14mmx21.6mm), normally I have V-Grove panel 6x4 but on JLCPCB SMT Assembly FAQ I found information:
Please panelize your boards with stamp holes, V-cut panels are not supported currently.
But I don't found any rules for stamp holes panelization.
Has anyone used JLC PCB to mount the  PCB panel.

Regards
up8051 (JarekC.Diy)

[essele]

I'm getting close to trying this service, so I've written a KiCad plugin that will generate the correct BOM and placement files with a single click, and without having to edit any of the standard outputs.

https://github.com/essele/kicad_jlcpcba

You need to add an LCSC attribute to the components in the schematic with the LCSC part number, then everything else should be taken care of. Extra rotations needed are in the rotations.cf config file ... I blatantly stole the ones in there from somewhere else and have then updated with specifics from the board I'm experimenting with ... these are footprint rotations rather than component rotations, which seems to work fine. They are far from complete.

CAVEAT LIST:

1. I'm not a python programmer (which will probably be evident from the code), this is a rough translation from a perl version, but seems to work ok.
2. I've never written a KiCad plugin before, so this is probably horrible.
3. There isn't a lot of error checking, it seems to work fine for my test board, but I'm sure there will be lots of failure scenarios.
4. I've only tested it on OSX .. don't know if it will work ok on Linux or Windows.
5. I haven't actually ordered any boards with this ... please examine the placement view on JLCPCB very closely before committing.

It it's of use, then I'll put some more effort into tidying etc.

[DBecker]

I'm getting close to trying this service, so I've written a KiCad plugin that will generate the correct BOM and placement files with a single click, and without having to edit any of the standard outputs.

https://github.com/essele/kicad_jlcpcba

You need to add an LCSC attribute to the components in the schematic with the LCSC part number, then everything else should be taken care of. Extra rotations needed are in the rotations.cf config file ... I blatantly stole the ones in there from somewhere else and have then updated with specifics from the board I'm experimenting with ... these are footprint rotations rather than component rotations, which seems to work fine. They are far from complete.

CAVEAT LIST:

1. I'm not a python programmer (which will probably be evident from the code), this is a rough translation from a perl version, but seems to work ok.
2. I've never written a KiCad plugin before, so this is probably horrible.
3. There isn't a lot of error checking, it seems to work fine for my test board, but I'm sure there will be lots of failure scenarios.
4. I've only tested it on OSX .. don't know if it will work ok on Linux or Windows.
5. I haven't actually ordered any boards with this ... please examine the placement view on JLCPCB very closely before committing.

It it's of use, then I'll put some more effort into tidying etc.

Don't promote this until you have tried out a range of parts.  You don't need to order the boards, but at least check their board visualization tool.

Basing rotation on the footprint alone is *not* correct.  It needs to be based on the part type as well, with the possibility of over-ride when that does not work.  Compare the 0-degree orientation of a tantalum caps, electrolytic caps, and diodes.

[essele]

Thanks DBecker.

I did post it with the expectation that other people could experiment, feedback, and help improve it -- it's far from perfect (as per my long list of caveats)

I was definitely a little hasty, as in my efforts to check what you've suggested I have discovered that it doesn't work for the top side of the board, I'm sure it won't be a complex fix.

In any case, I've just checked a few polarised caps and diodes and (so far) they all seem absolutely fine with no rotation [not correct, see below]. Do you have any examples to hand that you know are wrong?

Also on the footprint vs part ... I probably don't understand enough about how this works, do you have some examples that I could test against?  The code to add per device rotation would be really simple, but I'd like to see some real world examples to test against.

EDIT: top fixed, but you are correct about the caps ... diodes all seem fine with no rotation,  but both electrolytics and tants (at least the ones I've looked at) do need 180 rotation -- I will do some experimenting.

[nigelwright7557]

JLCPCB are so fast I get the item on Monday and two days later I get an email telling me they are on their way !

[MarkR42]

Esselle, thanks for doing that, I've tried it with jlcpcb's viewer,

I updated the code to make it work on Kicad-nightly, and I've updated the rotations.

Diodes - were already good.
SON packages - were ok
sot23 - ok

Only my qfn part had the wrong rotation. So not bad for a first try.

I'll proably be ordering a board later in the year, their prices seem insanely low,

My tiny board is slightly too small for their minimum size, I tacked on an unused section for testing, but if I want to do a short production run I will panelise the boards 2 boards per panel

[up8051]

I tried to preview my PCB projects  for SMT assembly in JLCPCB but I always have offsets between element and footprint.
I prepered very simple project but preview is still wrong.


Different ways to generate Gerbers and P&P files do not change situation.
Does anyone know a solution for this problem?

I tried support@jlcpcb.com but any answer for my question is:

Usually our engineer will check the boards when you upload your file in our website.
They will generate corrected DFM analyse in our website and you can check it .
If there is any components placed wrongly in the DFM analyse ,you can send email to us and we will inform our engineer to rotate it for you .

Regards
up8051 aka JarekC.DIY

[JLCPCB Official]

sir, please send your file to rebecca@jlcpcb.com, I will follow up your problem, thank you

[up8051]

Hi JLCPCB

I sent examples file to support and  I received response that has been  forwarded to technical team.
I am waiting for the solution of the problem.

Regards
up8051

[STUDER]

 :)good

[essele]

Thanks MarkR42 for the comments and code updates.

I've incorporated your changes back into the original tree, along with some more rotation updates.

I've also just placed my first assembly order, so it will be interesting to see how this works out. Not very complicated in terms of variety of device types, but there are quite a lot of line items (22 lines), with about 70 components on each board.

I'll post some photos when they arrive.

[essele]

So my boards have arrived ... I must say I'm very impressed with the speed and support during the process.

The boards were submitted on Monday 30th March, and despite all of the current challenges, they arrived today -- 7 days for assembled boards is very impressive.

For the most part I think things look good ... certainly the placement software seems to work ok, no problems identified so far...



I have run into a problem while trying to get the first board up and running ... two of the resistors were not properly soldered, one end had lifted and therefore wasn't properly soldered. In some ways this was bad luck as the other 4 boards look ok, but I will do a more thorough inspection.



I did also have one board that seems to have some etching problems, the tracks have a large number of blobs along the edges, the is only one board and I don't think it will impact anything ... I've never seen anything like this with all prior boards from JLCPBC, and the other four boards are good.



I'll update if I discover any more issues as I finish populating and testing the boards.

[SMTech]

So my boards have arrived ... I must say I'm very impressed with the speed and support during the process.

I have run into a problem while trying to get the first board up and running ... two of the resistors were not properly soldered, one end had lifted and therefore wasn't properly soldered. In some ways this was bad luck as the other 4 boards look ok, but I will do a more thorough inspection.

This is called "tombstone" the most common contributor to it is uneven heating either caused by crappy reflow or by thermally unbalanced track layout (e.g one end of device basically on a plane and the other connected to a tiny track). However the other thing that can aggravate it is too much solder paste. However nothing on your board looks like its pushing the rules to any great extent so maybe you were just unlucky, normally if everything is setup right its a very uncommon build issue until you get to 0402 or smaller when all the parameters above start mattering a whole lot more.
You may simply have got lucky on your 7days, since the 30th deliveries out of China are somewhat unpredictable, some ship as normal and others get stuck with the courier for days on end and some lucky countries have reduced or no service.

[MarkR42]

So my boards have arrived ... I must say I'm very impressed with the speed and support during the process.

The boards were submitted on Monday 30th March, and despite all of the current challenges, they arrived today -- 7 days for assembled boards is very impressive.

For the most part I think things look good ... certainly the placement software seems to work ok, no problems identified so far...

Great, you could not get them to place U1, U8 or U9 then? I assume those parts weren't in their library?

[MWP]

Not a beginner to PCB design, but a beginner to KiCad and using Jlcpcb (for pcb & assembly).

I have a board design that's circular, and approx 20mm in diameter.
I also have a few other quite small boards I need fabed and assembled.

What's the best way to go about this?
To panelize the designs myself?
Any tips would be appreciated

[OwO]

Yes, panelize it yourself but don't put very long slots on the board. You will have to cut the boards apart with a table saw*, but you won't get charged extra for multiple designs.

* There is a technique involving a strip of wet paper towel on the bottom side of the board when cutting that will create a water droplet on the top of the board, wetting the cut surface and keeping dust in the droplet. I might post some details later, but until you can master the technique you have to do it in a dedicated room and avoid breathing when cutting boards.

[ddavidebor]

Yes, panelize it yourself but don't put very long slots on the board. You will have to cut the boards apart with a table saw*, but you won't get charged extra for multiple designs.

* There is a technique involving a strip of wet paper towel on the bottom side of the board when cutting that will create a water droplet on the top of the board, wetting the cut surface and keeping dust in the droplet. I might post some details later, but until you can master the technique you have to do it in a dedicated room and avoid breathing when cutting boards.

THAT'S AWFUL ADVICE
PCBs will dull the blade in seconds

[up8051]

Not a beginner to PCB design, but a beginner to KiCad and using Jlcpcb (for pcb & assembly).

I have a board design that's circular, and approx 20mm in diameter.
I also have a few other quite small boards I need fabed and assembled.

What's the best way to go about this?
To panelize the designs myself?
Any tips would be appreciated

Panelize boards by "mouse bits".
JLCPCB accept this type of panelization.

[langwadt]

Yes, panelize it yourself but don't put very long slots on the board. You will have to cut the boards apart with a table saw*, but you won't get charged extra for multiple designs.

* There is a technique involving a strip of wet paper towel on the bottom side of the board when cutting that will create a water droplet on the top of the board, wetting the cut surface and keeping dust in the droplet. I might post some details later, but until you can master the technique you have to do it in a dedicated room and avoid breathing when cutting boards.

THAT'S AWFUL ADVICE
PCBs will dull the blade in seconds

a diamond tile cutting disc works better, but the teeth on a table saw blade is carbide just like the drill bits used to drill pcbs, so while it isn't something you should use your expensive fine wood working saw blade for, it's not going to self destruct in seconds

[MWP]

Panelize boards by "mouse bits".
JLCPCB accept this type of panelization.

Perfect. Thankyou.

[MWP]

If an assembled board isn't full populated, do JLCPCB remove solder paste (or, not apply it) to the pads of un-populated components?

[OwO]

They used to leave solder on all pads, but some time in 2019 it changed to no paste on unpopulated pads.

[thinkfat]

I've just recently ordered another PCBA job with them, but I come to the conclusion that their parts catalog is much too limited for me to have them assemble prototypes completely.
Most of the active parts I use are not available, or not listed in the package I need and if they're listed, they're likely out of stock.

So, I've decided to just let them place whatever passive parts are on the PCB and assemble the rest manually. That saves a lot of work already (soldering dozens of resistors and capacitors is boring).
It also costs effectively nothing.

[MarkR42]

Happily, JLCPCB had parts which worked for all of the parts on one side of my board.

Kicad screenshot and picture of the finished item attached.

I had jlc assemble one side, two boards per panel, which I panelised myself in the gerbers because my individual boards are very tiny (smaller than jlc's minimum size) and had no space for tooling holes. Those were attached with mouse-bites, and I was able to snap them off easily with no problems, the boards are 1mm thick.

I soldered the radio module to the other side of the board and the finished item is shown in another attachment (with a rule).

Overall, their service was cheap and very good.

What I'm slightly worried about, is if I want to make another batch, the motor driver chip drv8837d is now out of stock ( https://jlcpcb.com/parts/componentSearch?searchTxt=drv8837 ) so I can't order any more of these assembled. Had-soldering this chip is a royal pain in the backside (dfn8, 0.5mm pitch), as I did with earlier prototypes.

I originally used the Atmel attiny3217, JLC didn't have that, but they did have the attiny1617 which is almost identical (less flash memory, still enough) - so I fitted that instead.

I think their service is excellent for short production runs where you want to make  e.g. <100 pieces and another manufacturer would probably charge too much setup fee.

[OwO]

My designs always contain a LOT of passives, and they are always on opposite sides of the board as the ICs, so I've been using JLC SMT for prototypes for as long as I've heard of it.

This is what my latest board looks like as they arrived from jlc:

bottom:


top:


after manual assembly of chips:

[MR]

My designs always contain a LOT of passives, and they are always on opposite sides of the board as the ICs, so I've been using JLC SMT for prototypes for as long as I've heard of it.

This is what my latest board looks like as they arrived from jlc:

bottom:
(Attachment Link)

top:
(Attachment Link)

after manual assembly of chips:
(Attachment Link)

Which design application did you use? The memory traces look interesting.

[OwO]

gEDA PCB. Kicad should work too. You don't actually need the bus routing and automatic length matching features of more advanced PCB software, and they are actually useless in this case because the Zynq has different internal (BGA substrate) lengths for every pin which you have to account for when laying out the traces. I just extract trace lengths from the PCB using the command report(netlengths) which I then copy into a spreadsheet, and then I adjust the outlier traces until everything is mostly equal.

[MR]

I just wondered because the length matching is quite creative.

[uer166]

Just wanted to show my first experience with this assembler. Got 2 of these babies for $160 shipped, pretty amazing! Every part here (except big inductor) was placed by them. No idea if they work, there's some fiberglass dust from the post-assembly routing, but looks pretty good! Maybe 1/5 of the price from Allpcb and such, but I did have to design using their components..

[MarkR42]

That's a lot of caps. But please try it, and let us know the results.

My much smaller, simpler boards (with a lot fewer parts) seem to have a 100% yield so far...

[uer166]

That's a lot of caps.

It's actually not enough, those Lelons don't quite handle the 4A ripple current that well..

[danie1]

I've made a tool to scrape LCSC product info for the parts in the assembly service to make a more usable tool for finding parts if anyone is interested:

https://github.com/cs2dsb/lcsc-scrape.rs

There's a pre-built database in the releases folder so you don't have to run the scraper (takes hours to do all 37k plus they might ban you? who knows).

I made it because I was fed up of libreoffice/google sheets taking minutes to update when attempting to apply a filter. The SQLite database can be queried in < 1 second for complex queries and contains basically all info available from both LCSC and JLC including all parameters listed on the LCSC product page, stock and basic/extended state from JLC and prices from both. It's at least as accurate as the spreadsheet from their SMT assembly page and has a lot of extra info for the majority of parts.

Every field is directly in the database as a string but I've also "post-processed" it to convert prices and voltages to floats so you can do numerical comparisons on them without mucking about with casting in SQL. These fields are prefixed with "pp_". I imagine I'll add more post processing as I use the DB but for my test case of finding a DC-DC with specified in & out voltages it worked great.

If you want to use it as a scraper to get up-to-date info please read the whole readme first - there are various ways to update subsets that doesn't result in you hammering LCSC & JLC with requests for hours. The workflow I'm using is update from the parts spreadsheet to get new parts (a handful of http requests), planning the design mostly to completion and finally updating only the set of products I've picked for my design with the latest JLC stock info. Obviously I'm manually checking the datasheets before the final order since the info on LCSC & JLC isn't always perfect or complete.

There's some example SQL at the bottom of the readme in the above repo including simple queries like finding categories, listing parameters available and filtering by criteria.

Open to feature requests/bug reports.

Let me know if you find it useful!

[phil from seattle]

Is anyone else having trouble getting through to their part library?  I'm trying to fill out the JLCPCB numbers and price in my BOM and keep getting system errors, timeouts and network busy (no duh...).  If I keep at it I can make a little progress - 4 out of 22 part numbers so far.

I've got their spreadsheet but not sure the part numbers match up. And the prices look like they are in Yuan, not $ though the site quotes dollars (to me, anyway).

[danie1]

Yea it's broken today.

The db I posted directly above contains all the prices in US dollars as of 2 days ago.... so you could use that.

Edit: If you are on windows or mac and can't use the app I posted the database is just sqlite so you can use any sqlite client.

[phil from seattle]

Thanks, I saw that. Appreciate you putting out the effort. I'm in a windows ghetto for my dev machine. I made a mental note to do what it takes to use your data but it WAS kind of low on the list. Maybe not so much now...

[danie1]

Not affiliated but I used https://sqlitebrowser.org/ on my mac for browsing sqlite DBs.

You can browse the table just a spreadsheet if you like or use the query editor in it to execute scripts similar to what I put in the readme.

You wouldn't have to download the huge cache folder to do that, just the binary + db release.

[phil from seattle]

JLCPCB seems back on line.  I actually had some luck just using the downloaded spreadsheet and simple searching and filtering in the open office spreadsheet. I'm probably a week away from putting in an order - need to get my first version of the PCB back and verify first but getting a pretty good sense of what it takes.

One thing that seems clear - I really need to keep a close eye on available components while designing my board.

[MarkR42]

Yes, absolutely, I've found that they run out of stock of components often (not the basic stuff) and my design went from out-of-stock of one part, then that part was available, then out-of-stock of another part, then (happily) all the parts became available, so I ordered a batch.

Now I'm looking at possibly ordering another batch and I just hope they stay in stock until I'm ready...

I suspect that the trick may be to use "very common" components and they can stay in stock. But I'm not compliaining as JLC setup fee is very low, and the turnaround time was unbelievable. Will use again.

[phil from seattle]

Yes, 100% agree use the most common parts though it's hard to say what qualifies as "common". Wish they would help with this - maybe keep stats on how many get used in a given period.  As I get more into this, I'm getting a sense of the "best practices" to make JLCPCB work well. 

Another one is to reconfigure your components.  My board has 10 optoisolated inputs and the original design used 2 4-channel ICs and 1 2-channel IC incurring 2 extended charges (no basic optoisolators at all). I first looked at switching to 5 2-channel optos. While reducing to 1 extended charge, it actually increased the price of the components slightly. Though, still a net win.  Then I poked around the database and found a 1-channel opto that was less than 1/4 the cost of the 2-channel one I was using and tons in stock. Specs look right and I may try to order a couple to check out but am pretty sure they will work. The redesign took all of 15 minutes. The net result is a score! more than $1 off the price per board.

[edit] Found a Basic Optoisolator that probably will work! slightly more expensive in quantity 1 but a big break at 100 which when building 10 boards, I get. And no extended part surcharge. Had to tell someone 'cause my wife looks at me like I'm talking Swahili.[/edit]

[uer166]

It works, programs, and the current sense and control loops and protections are good! Software-defined boost DCDC, about 95% efficient at 130W, 30Vin, 120Vout on one of the two phases. The superfast diodes had to go and got replaced with SiC though, reverse recovery created massive ringing..

[Marmotta]

What has people's experience been with waiting for extended parts to be restocked? I redesigned my first intended order around a far more expensive THS7368 amplifier based on what they had available, thinking that the time saved soldering that single component would be worth the extra cost, but that part is now too low in stock for me to order the 50 boards I'd intended on getting. It is worth crossing my fingers and hoping or should I just use my original design with a far cheaper THS7374 and hand soldered the IC? Their FAQ just seems to suggest checking back regularly.

[danie1]

The max31855 I was waiting for came back in stock after a few weeks.

Support said they didn't plan to order more but they reappeared nonetheless.

I've also seen people post support responses that say they've ordered a reel after the customer asked for them. So who knows.

Maybe email them and ask if they've ordered some/will order some. 50 boards may not be much to them but if the overhead of getting another reel of something they want to stock anyway isn't that high, maybe they'll do it for you?

[JLCPCB Official]

Hi, friend. Rebecca here.
We will have new functions to solve this problem. Users can set up a private component warehouse according to their own production plan, and reserve / pre-order components to be stored in the jlc warehouse, which can reduce the cost of use (batch is cheaper) while ensuring that components are available, jlcpcb has ordered hundreds of SMT placement machines to expand production capacity and will remove the 50-piece limit.
feel free to approach me by rebecca@jlcpcb.com

[nuclearcat]

Hi, friend. Rebecca here.
We will have new functions to solve this problem. Users can set up a private component warehouse according to their own production plan, and reserve / pre-order components to be stored in the jlc warehouse, which can reduce the cost of use (batch is cheaper) while ensuring that components are available, jlcpcb has ordered hundreds of SMT placement machines to expand production capacity and will remove the 50-piece limit.
feel free to approach me by rebecca@jlcpcb.com

Wow! Thats great news. And 4-layer prices drop...
Well done, at least some good news at these times!

[JLCPCB Official]

 I think so. Last week I communicated with our manager, he told me discount and better service should be more and more. We do hope JLCPCB will help the community. Price & service matter much, the logistics as well. From my side, I can deliver you guys’ suggestions to our company, I will be there always. 

[danie1]

Has anyone else had strange behaviour from the STM preview window in the last week or so? I've tried firefox and chromium in case it's browser specific.

It seems to be rendering rounded pad corners inverted or something - I've attached examples, the pink one is from my local gerbv and the green one is from the JLC preview.

I also can't get the preview to show components when attempting to populate the bottom of the pcb. I've tried flipping the signs of x and y in case there's some oddness with mirroring the bottom layer but that didn't help. I tried taking the same pos file, gerbers and bom and just flipping a single component to the bottom and that still doesn't work. As far as I can tell kicad outputs reasonable pos files in all cases and I'm renaming the columns as per the JLC FAQ (the same rename and pos stuff works on the top side).

I'm sure they'd check the rotation and fix it for me but I'd really rather see the preview myself and make sure my output is correct.

[OwO]

gerbers have the origin set at the bottom left corner, while most EDA software have the origin at top left. The generated xy files may be either. It is also ambiguous where the origin actually is; most EDA software outputs coordinates relative to the edges of the gerber file, while fabs usually expect coordinates relative to the PCB edges. In my experience JLC will handle any offset although the preview only works if the origin is set to the bottom left corner of the gerber.

[essele]

There are some challenges with the placement previewer ... I had a problem yesterday with a fairly complex board where it put my components in the wrong place. I've got a set of 60 SOIC-8's and each one has a resistor and cap right next to it. The resistor and cap were in the right layout, but next to the wrong IC??

Obviously my first assumption was that my plugin for creating the placement files was wrong, but after reducing the BOM and placement files to just the first three resistors and caps I still saw the wrong placement, and bizarrely in different places to previously (despite not changing the position information.)  If I removed a load of footprints from the PCB then it all started working.

So I suspect there are limitations with how complex the board can be ... not sure why, some buffer overflow or wrap I would imagine.

I have given them all the details, I hope they can fix it ... I also rely on that preview, I'd feel very uncomfortable ordering a board without seeing it first!

[danie1]

OwO's hint about the origin got me fiddling with that + gerbv locally (converting .pos to drill to get it to render) and I've "solved" it. Kicad has options for what to use as the origin in the plot menu (gerbers + drill) but not in the pos dialog. As far as I can tell the pos dialog always uses the grid origin, which could be ANYTHING given I keep accidental hitting that hotkey!

In the end, it wasn't necessary to update the origin, it seems to work fine with it set to 0,0 (top left) but the pos file needs the X coordinates flipped. I suspect kicad is flipping them once and the JLC preview is flipping them again, or maybe neither is flipping them but the gerbers are being flipped on the preview. Who knows!

essele, I agree that there are some weird flakey things in there that I haven't been able to figure out - the most recent one was if the CPL has less than 4 components in it, it only works if you add "mm" after the X and Y positions but with > 4 components it works fine with no units specified.

Still haven't figured out the weird pad rendering but I can ask about that when ordering I guess. As long as the placement is correct I'm sure it'll be fiiiiine right?

[thinkfat]

OwO's hint about the origin got me fiddling with that + gerbv locally (converting .pos to drill to get it to render) and I've "solved" it. Kicad has options for what to use as the origin in the plot menu (gerbers + drill) but not in the pos dialog. As far as I can tell the pos dialog always uses the grid origin, which could be ANYTHING given I keep accidental hitting that hotkey!

In the end, it wasn't necessary to update the origin, it seems to work fine with it set to 0,0 (top left) but the pos file needs the X coordinates flipped. I suspect kicad is flipping them once and the JLC preview is flipping them again, or maybe neither is flipping them but the gerbers are being flipped on the preview. Who knows!

essele, I agree that there are some weird flakey things in there that I haven't been able to figure out - the most recent one was if the CPL has less than 4 components in it, it only works if you add "mm" after the X and Y positions but with > 4 components it works fine with no units specified.

Still haven't figured out the weird pad rendering but I can ask about that when ordering I guess. As long as the placement is correct I'm sure it'll be fiiiiine right?

I never had to manipulate any files to get the placement positions to work. I'm using "JLCKicadTools" and it just does all the magic for me. I've ordered 3 PCBA jobs now and they all worked out fine.

[MarkR42]

Has anyone else had strange behaviour from the STM preview window in the last week or so? I've tried firefox and chromium in case it's browser specific.

It seems to be rendering rounded pad corners inverted or something - I've attached examples, the pink one is from my local gerbv and the green one is from the JLC preview.

Yes, JLCPCB does that every time for me with Gerbers from Kicad nightly. This does not appear to affect the final product though. The corners aren't inverted in the actual gerber files, it's just a bug in the previewer.

It's not just assembly, it does it on the pcb gerber preview too.

UPDATE: To be clear, I wrote in the comments section when ordering, and the JLCPCB technician wrote back to me very quickly with screenshots of the (correct) copper layers in his own tools.

[essele]

Just managed to get this board powered up and working...



It's a PoE GPIB board ... really nicely done by JLCPCBA, everything was them apart from the RJ45 port, the GPIB port, the PSoC MCU (not on their parts list), the 10 pin programming port, and the PoE module.

So it basically only took 15 minutes of work from opening the box to having it up and running (well, powered at least ... software still to do!) ... I do love this service -- 2 assembled boards for $30!

I've also just ordered my first 4-layer board with them for assembly ... and it did suffer an alignment problem as I mentioned earlier, definitely their system and not my position file. However they did fully correct it "manually" and the DFM report showed everything in the right place. I'm still worried about this as that's fine with general positioning problems, but rotation may be more of a problem.

[phil from seattle]

Man, we hobbyists have come a long way from toner transfer home brew!!  Nice looking board.

[c64]

Anyone used their "Special Offer PCB + SMT Assembly from $2" which is displayed on the main page?
Details are here https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/107-pcb-smt-assembly-from-2
They say

You will get two SMT coupons at the beginning of every month. The SMT coupons can be found in your Account > Coupon section.

However I don't see these coupons in my account

[MarkR42]

I don't pretend to understand their coupons system, but I seem to have accumulated a fair selection of coupons

To be honest without the coupons the price is already pretty unbeatable so I don't worry about it.

[VEGETA]

I wanted to ask will they do different color soldermask? I hope they support black at least.

Do you guys know a good company that does PCB manufacture + assembly as one order?

thanks!

[c64]

I wanted to ask will they do different color soldermask? I hope they support black at least.

Yes they do. For 2 layer board don't even charge any extra. You can see all the colors available on the online quotation page

Do you guys know a good company that does PCB manufacture + assembly as one order?

For prototypes?

[VEGETA]

Yes they do. For 2 layer board don't even charge any extra. You can see all the colors available on the online quotation page

that is for normal pcb manufacture but not for their assembly service. did you get colored PCBs assembled by JLC?

For prototypes?

no, but for small batch production.

[c64]

Yes they do. For 2 layer board don't even charge any extra. You can see all the colors available on the online quotation page

that is for normal pcb manufacture but not for their assembly service. did you get colored PCBs assembled by JLC?

Hmm I don't know actually. I'm yet to use their assembly service.

They let you choose color and then choose assembly for that PCB so I guess yes.

[VEGETA]

Hmm I don't know actually. I'm yet to use their assembly service.

They let you choose color and then choose assembly for that PCB so I guess yes.

They write it exclusively to be green though.

[MarkR42]

Green solder mask is required for jlc's cheap assembly service. I'm guessing that this is because there are machine-vision systems used in the pick-and-place, which would need to be recalibrated or re-trained to work with different solder mask colours. For $cheap, they don't want to do that.

[lutkeveld]

Its probably because all designs are combined in one big panel.
Now you can group all designs in the same panel, otherwise you will have to maintain seperate panel types.

[JLCPCB Official]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

[VEGETA]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

[thm_w]

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

If the website states that they only do green and <50pcs, then why would you think its not the truth? 
Use PCBWay or another service instead.

https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly
https://www.pcbway.com/pcb-assembly.html

[c64]

If the website states that they only do green and <50pcs, then why would you think its not the truth? 

Because this is what "JLCPCB Official" said two posts earlier?

[uer166]

If the website states that they only do green and <50pcs, then why would you think its not the truth? 
Use PCBWay or another service instead.

Seriously, did you not read 2 posts above from JLC saying otherwise? I'm curious as well, there seem to be so many disconnects between what the website says, what JLCPCB EEVBlog account says, and what their email support says. This is all fine while they're a unique service, but if someone else pops-up with something similar, they need to get their shit together.

[thm_w]

Seriously, did you not read 2 posts above from JLC saying otherwise? I'm curious as well, there seem to be so many disconnects between what the website says, what JLCPCB EEVBlog account says, and what their email support says. This is all fine while they're a unique service, but if someone else pops-up with something similar, they need to get their shit together.

"JLCPCB support many PCB colors"
ok, now the second statement, which may be completely unrelated to the first:

"and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order."

[JLCPCB Official]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

Just a clarification
For PCB colors JLC has many different mask colors that could be produced.
For PCBA for the moment JLCPCB support SMT assembly for green PCB only.
 

[VEGETA]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

Just a clarification
For PCB colors JLC has many different mask colors that could be produced.
For PCBA for the moment JLCPCB support SMT assembly for green PCB only.
 

We knew about multi color PCB fabrication but we asked about the assembly since people are confused. Now we know you only do green for some weird reason. When do you plan to support other colors such as black? since your service is so cheap, we could use it for small batches production. For me, I like to have black solder mask for a certain project but for not green is fine.

Anyway, I have a board of 50x50... I can make a panel with 280x280mm... is that doable? can I order say 20 panels fully assembled?

[JLCPCB Official]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

Just a clarification
For PCB colors JLC has many different mask colors that could be produced.
For PCBA for the moment JLCPCB support SMT assembly for green PCB only.
 

We knew about multi color PCB fabrication but we asked about the assembly since people are confused. Now we know you only do green for some weird reason. When do you plan to support other colors such as black? since your service is so cheap, we could use it for small batches production. For me, I like to have black solder mask for a certain project but for not green is fine.

Anyway, I have a board of 50x50... I can make a panel with 280x280mm... is that doable? can I order say 20 panels fully assembled?

Not sure when will have other colors SMT service. I hope soon, many people want to try other color board.
1. Currently, black is not supported
2. The single size is 50*50, and the imposition size is 280*280mm, which meets the SMT size requirements.
3. SMT supports one side, front or back
4. SMT-qty does not exceed 30 pcs
5. No more than 10 kinds of components in the extended library.

[c64]

This is from JLC website:

Rarely, the stock shown in JLCPCB website may be inconsistent with the actual stock, which may cause there is no enough stock for a component to process SMT assembly, then the component won’t be assembled on your boards. In this case, JLCPCB will refund you the cost of those unassembled components.

Anyone actually experienced this?

This may get quite ugly, if the not in stock component is actually important. For example, you have a board with 100 small 0402 capacitors, and few big 0805 ones. You can not solder 0402 by hand so you decide to pay for assembly. Since you do assembly anyway, why not to assemble 0805 as well? You order assembly, everything in stock, and then suddenly they say "sorry your caps not in stock, here is your board with your couple of 0805 soldered". Now you screwed up.

[phil from seattle]

Seems like a stretch to me.  I recall reading something in one of the FAQs about them not holding a commitment for long as it ties up the parts. It is definitely in JLC's best interest to manage their inventory really tightly. The scenario you describe makes for very unhappy customers. Especially with web sites like this where people can be squeaky wheels. So far, JLC doesn't seem like a F-You kind of company.

My latest board had an out of stock IC that showed up when I uploaded the BOM.  I was lucky in that there was the same part, same footprint from a different mfr and I was able to quickly switch over. Both were extended parts so only a slight difference in cost - literally pennies. I had checked inventory levels the day before and don't recall it being particularly low. I think it's a good idea to avoid parts with low inventory levels in general, if you can.

[c64]

Maybe they should have one more category of parts and call them "super basic", which are guaranteed to be in stock. Like 100n capacitors or 10K resistors 

[JLCPCB Official]

Hi, do you mean by the two $7 coupon for SMT service,
you can check the coupon detail https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/107-pcb-smt-assembly-from-2,
The coupon should be sent at the beginning of each month. Actually from June, we will send three  $8 coupon each month.

[JLCPCB Official]

Green solder mask is required for jlc's cheap assembly service. I'm guessing that this is because there are machine-vision systems used in the pick-and-place, which would need to be recalibrated or re-trained to work with different solder mask colours. For $cheap, they don't want to do that.

Most customers choose green boards, and few other colors. Sowe do green color to reduce material cost and time cost. If most clients like black, then we will also make black,this is based on customer needs. In the future, we may have other colors SMT service, but it needs to reach a certain amount of demand.

[JLCPCB Official]

Seriously, did you not read 2 posts above from JLC saying otherwise? I'm curious as well, there seem to be so many disconnects between what the website says, what JLCPCB EEVBlog account says, and what their email support says. This is all fine while they're a unique service, but if someone else pops-up with something similar, they need to get their shit together.

"JLCPCB support many PCB colors"
ok, now the second statement, which may be completely unrelated to the first:

"and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order."

For PCB manufacturing-related problems, I'm really sorry if our answer confuses you. This is a problem that we should not have. We will pay more attention in the future, and we will definitely give you a clear answer and guidance. Sorry again

[JLCPCB Official]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

sorry, we can't.Only green, up to 30pcs

[JLCPCB Official]

Maybe they should have one more category of parts and call them "super basic", which are guaranteed to be in stock. Like 100n capacitors or 10K resistors 

A good idea, do you think Pre-order parts service can help? If we receive order in advance, we will know which kinds of parts you need most, and we will prepare as we can.

[thinkfat]

This is from JLC website:

Rarely, the stock shown in JLCPCB website may be inconsistent with the actual stock, which may cause there is no enough stock for a component to process SMT assembly, then the component won’t be assembled on your boards. In this case, JLCPCB will refund you the cost of those unassembled components.

Anyone actually experienced this?

This may get quite ugly, if the not in stock component is actually important. For example, you have a board with 100 small 0402 capacitors, and few big 0805 ones. You can not solder 0402 by hand so you decide to pay for assembly. Since you do assembly anyway, why not to assemble 0805 as well? You order assembly, everything in stock, and then suddenly they say "sorry your caps not in stock, here is your board with your couple of 0805 soldered". Now you screwed up.

This is why I don't bother making designs that specifically target JLCs parts library. I let them mount all the passives from their basic parts library to save time. If I needed an actual small-batch production run I'd likely choose a different manufacturer.

[VEGETA]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

sorry, we can't.Only green, up to 30pcs

If I have a board (panel) with dimensions of 280x280mm.. can I get 30 of it?

[thm_w]

For PCB manufacturing-related problems, I'm really sorry if our answer confuses you. This is a problem that we should not have. We will pay more attention in the future, and we will definitely give you a clear answer and guidance. Sorry again

Its alright, no confusion here, I can understand how hard it is to translate between languages. 

If I have a board (panel) with dimensions of 280x280mm.. can I get 30 of it?

You can try it on their site and see what happens: https://cart.jlcpcb.com/quote
I think the answer is yes.

edit: seems like they don't cap it to 30 but they would likely catch it somewhere later in the process.

[JLCPCB Official]

Hello ;

JLCPCB support many PCB colors and could produce and assemble your PCB through the simplest ordering way, and also there is talented engineers that could guide you through to finish your order.
Find more here : https://jlcpcb.com/
Or just text me here for more details. 

Hello,

Your website states that assembly service requires only green solder mask to work.. so can i do it with black for example?

I want to produce around 100-200 boards of 50x50mm product, all parts are compatible with JLCPCB.com/parts and all of them are at one side of the board. I can panellize myself too if required.

What do you think?

regards!

sorry, we can't.Only green, up to 30pcs

If I have a board (panel) with dimensions of 280x280mm.. can I get 30 of it?

Yes.You can get. When you panel board is ready, choose quantity:30).
More Detail here:https://jlcpcb.com//quote/pcbOrderFaq/PCB%20Quantity?_ga=2.180465319.1069198988.1592185484-2060532798.1551508394
Then notice the dimensions

Answer clear?

[Miti]

I’m sorry, I didn’t read through all the pages, I apologize if the answer to my question is hidden somewhere in this thread. My question is, can I use any CAD SW (Kicad, Eagle, etc) with my own libraries and then just edit the BOM, or do I have to use their libraries which I understand only exists for EASY EDA and Altium?

[langwadt]

I’m sorry, I didn’t read through all the pages, I apologize if the answer to my question is hidden somewhere in this thread. My question is, can I use any CAD SW (Kicad, Eagle, etc) with my own libraries and then just edit the BOM, or do I have to use their libraries which I understand only exists for EASY EDA and Altium?

you can use any CAD, but you'll have to make a BOM file and a placement file in the right format

There are scripts for kicad that'll generate the bom file and plament file, all you have to do is add the LCSC partnumber to the symbols

[phil from seattle]

I’m sorry, I didn’t read through all the pages, I apologize if the answer to my question is hidden somewhere in this thread. My question is, can I use any CAD SW (Kicad, Eagle, etc) with my own libraries and then just edit the BOM, or do I have to use their libraries which I understand only exists for EASY EDA and Altium?

what langwadt said. Also, be careful about your footprints if you make them yourself. And, verify ones that you get from somewhere else (especially with Eagle, lots of bad footprints out there, I don't know if Kicad suffers from that too). Make sure the origin is consistent with the datasheet as that is the pick and place target point. Make sure the pads are correctly aligned and the right size. Also, on the BOM, make sure that the LCSC part has the same footprint. There are multiple versions of some parts with different footprints in their library.

don't worry about rotation of the part in your footprint.

and by the way, with "jelly bean logic parts", different manufacturers each have slightly different recommended footprints. You'll have to decide which one you want to use.  For the most part, any of the footprints for a given part will work ok but worth understanding the difference.  An annoyance is that they use different names for essentially the same footprint so sometimes you have to go and compare the two footprints.  This turned out to be necessary for my last job because the TI 74LVC1G32 I selected was out of stock but they had one from NXP in stock.  Had to look at the footprints to make sure - different package names. Footprints were slightly different but close enough that it was OK.

[MarkR42]

The default "zero" rotation of the parts in the Kicad library and the JLCPCB parts library, is not always the same.

There are various fixes out there, to generate the pick-n-place file with the correct orientation. I am using a variation on essele's kicad jlcpcba plugin. However,

JLCPCB assembly has an *excellent* tool to check the parts orientation - it shows you the pcb, with the parts outlines and pins, and has pin1 super-clearly marked on chips, and A big + and - on diodes (and presumably polarised capacitors, I don't use any) - it shows you your own board with your own silkscreen, so it's usually super-easy to see any problems.

Also I think someone at JLC manually checks them, at least briefly, for correctness and would probably flag any obvious errors - but only if your silkscreen makes it clear to them.

[JLCPCB Official]

The default "zero" rotation of the parts in the Kicad library and the JLCPCB parts library, is not always the same.

There are various fixes out there, to generate the pick-n-place file with the correct orientation. I am using a variation on essele's kicad jlcpcba plugin. However,

JLCPCB assembly has an *excellent* tool to check the parts orientation - it shows you the pcb, with the parts outlines and pins, and has pin1 super-clearly marked on chips, and A big + and - on diodes (and presumably polarised capacitors, I don't use any) - it shows you your own board with your own silkscreen, so it's usually super-easy to see any problems.

Also I think someone at JLC manually checks them, at least briefly, for correctness and would probably flag any obvious errors - but only if your silkscreen makes it clear to them.

You are right
our engineers  will check the "+ -",  customers need to pay attention to correct DFM

[danie1]

I just had a batch of boards from the SMT service and found a strange defect. The one board I picked out to test didn't work at all and just when I was thinking I'd messed up the layout I noticed some unsoldered pins on the dc-dc regulator.

I tried soldering them but they seemed impossible to solder. Upon closer inspection the pads on the bottom didn't seem to have any visible pad under the legs so I removed the chip.

Something has gone very wrong with the solder mask but only on this one board and this one footprint. You can see the top right 3 pins pads are smaller than they should be, the center pad is smaller and the bottom right pins are completely covered. The nearby pads of other footprints are absolutely fine (closest is ~ 0.5mm from the upper right pad).

I'm glad it's just one board out of the batch but also, shouldn't this have been picked up by automated testing? I assumed there was automated optical checking that would notice missing pads. I know flying probe tests can check for continuity between pads that should be connected but I'm not sure exactly what JLC do as part of the probe test.

I've fired off an email to support and will report back what they say but thought it was an interesting enough defect to share.

I also had my first tombstones on this batch - I've found two 0402 caps that have tombstoned and both have equal copper and tracks leading directly out of them so not sure the cause. The solder looks more gray and less shiny than usual... not sure if that's related.

[Mangozac]

We've been using JLC PCB quite prolifically for the past year (for both prototypes and production) and today found our first issue. After lots of headaches trying to get the prototype working I sound that the pads on one component had been screwed up and there was no connection to the through hole plating on either side! This was the second revision of this board and the first one was fine, so the issue certainly shouldn't be with my footprint. I can't see how it would be the gerber/drill files either though.

Fortunately this was just a prototype and not production!

[JLCPCB Official]

I just had a batch of boards from the SMT service and found a strange defect. The one board I picked out to test didn't work at all and just when I was thinking I'd messed up the layout I noticed some unsoldered pins on the dc-dc regulator.

I tried soldering them but they seemed impossible to solder. Upon closer inspection the pads on the bottom didn't seem to have any visible pad under the legs so I removed the chip.

Something has gone very wrong with the solder mask but only on this one board and this one footprint. You can see the top right 3 pins pads are smaller than they should be, the center pad is smaller and the bottom right pins are completely covered. The nearby pads of other footprints are absolutely fine (closest is ~ 0.5mm from the upper right pad).

I'm glad it's just one board out of the batch but also, shouldn't this have been picked up by automated testing? I assumed there was automated optical checking that would notice missing pads. I know flying probe tests can check for continuity between pads that should be connected but I'm not sure exactly what JLC do as part of the probe test.

I've fired off an email to support and will report back what they say but thought it was an interesting enough defect to share.

I also had my first tombstones on this batch - I've found two 0402 caps that have tombstoned and both have equal copper and tracks leading directly out of them so not sure the cause. The solder looks more gray and less shiny than usual... not sure if that's related.

Dear sir, could you send me your registered email torebecca@jlcpcb.com, let me check  your file carefully.

[JLCPCB Official]

We've been using JLC PCB quite prolifically for the past year (for both prototypes and production) and today found our first issue. After lots of headaches trying to get the prototype working I sound that the pads on one component had been screwed up and there was no connection to the through hole plating on either side! This was the second revision of this board and the first one was fine, so the issue certainly shouldn't be with my footprint. I can't see how it would be the gerber/drill files either though.

Fortunately this was just a prototype and not production!

Dear sir, please kindly make a complaint on our website, we will assist you and give you a better solution.

[Mangozac]

Dear sir, please kindly make a complaint on our website, we will assist you and give you a better solution.

Thanks, yes I have already submitted a QC complaint on the order. I just thought it was a curious one and wanted to share here.

[danie1]

Dear sir, could you send me your registered email torebecca@jlcpcb.com, let me check  your file carefully.

I've already contacted support and they've forwarded the details on to the QC department but I'll forward it on to you too. Thanks for taking a look.

[c64]

We've been using JLC PCB quite prolifically for the past year (for both prototypes and production) and today found our first issue. After lots of headaches trying to get the prototype working I sound that the pads on one component had been screwed up and there was no connection to the through hole plating on either side! This was the second revision of this board and the first one was fine, so the issue certainly shouldn't be with my footprint. I can't see how it would be the gerber/drill files either though.

Fortunately this was just a prototype and not production!

Very strange, can you show us how your gerber copper layer looks?

[c64]

Maybe they should have one more category of parts and call them "super basic", which are guaranteed to be in stock. Like 100n capacitors or 10K resistors 

A good idea, do you think Pre-order parts service can help? If we receive order in advance, we will know which kinds of parts you need most, and we will prepare as we can.

It probably would not help. Now it will happen if you think you have the parts, but in reality you don't (how I understand it, because at the moment I submit the order you say you have the parts and you already reserve them for me). Pre-order will not help

[JLCPCB Official]

Maybe they should have one more category of parts and call them "super basic", which are guaranteed to be in stock. Like 100n capacitors or 10K resistors 

A good idea, do you think Pre-order parts service can help? If we receive order in advance, we will know which kinds of parts you need most, and we will prepare as we can.

It probably would not help. Now it will happen if you think you have the parts, but in reality you don't (how I understand it, because at the moment I submit the order you say you have the parts and you already reserve them for me). Pre-order will not help

from the pre-order service, we will know better which kinds of parts you guys need, and we are going to expand the library, add more type. will it not be helpful?

[bitseeker]

It's great to see the level of activity from JLCPCB Official here. Good stuff.

[VEGETA]

One question: can I combine the shipment of JLCPCB and LCSC?

[langwadt]

One question: can I combine the shipment of JLCPCB and LCSC?

I seem to remember there was a note that you can't anymore, because the export declarations are different for pcbs and components

[Mangozac]

One question: can I combine the shipment of JLCPCB and LCSC?

I seem to remember there was a note that you can't anymore, because the export declarations are different for pcbs and components

Yes, I tried to do this last week, was presented with an alert about some kind of restriction and instead was offered a significant discount on the shipping.

[Mangozac]

We've been using JLC PCB quite prolifically for the past year (for both prototypes and production) and today found our first issue. After lots of headaches trying to get the prototype working I sound that the pads on one component had been screwed up and there was no connection to the through hole plating on either side! This was the second revision of this board and the first one was fine, so the issue certainly shouldn't be with my footprint. I can't see how it would be the gerber/drill files either though.

Fortunately this was just a prototype and not production!

Very strange, can you show us how your gerber copper layer looks?

Gerbers all look good. Here's the top copper.

[JLCPCB Official]

One question: can I combine the shipment of JLCPCB and LCSC?

Sorry, no. The two cannot be transported together. The PCB factory(JLCPCB) and the components factory(LCSC) are separate. And our 5 PCB factories also located in different provinces. So maybe your different order are produced in different places

[JLCPCB Official]

We've been using JLC PCB quite prolifically for the past year (for both prototypes and production) and today found our first issue. After lots of headaches trying to get the prototype working I sound that the pads on one component had been screwed up and there was no connection to the through hole plating on either side! This was the second revision of this board and the first one was fine, so the issue certainly shouldn't be with my footprint. I can't see how it would be the gerber/drill files either though.

Fortunately this was just a prototype and not production!

Very strange, can you show us how your gerber copper layer looks?

Gerbers all look good. Here's the top copper.

is the distance between the pad and the through hole not enough?

[jmw]

I needed a lot of a LEDs placed. I tried out the assembly service, and ... game changer! They didn't have the shift register in stock, but not a huge chore to do by hand compared to hundreds of LEDs.

It's a little unfortunate the second row is perfectly spaced and the top shows some irregularity, but functionally all of the prototypes have no bridges - the 0603s are 1mm apart so there is .2mm space between each.

 

[danie1]

Something with that number of LEDs is a great use-case I recon. It's changed the way I design PCBs - now if I think "it would be nice to ... with the spare pins" or "it would be more robust with extra ..." I just do it because A) I don't have to solder the extra stuff and B) the smaller components than I'd be comfortable doing by hand let me cram a heck of a lot more in.

Regarding the alignment, I dunno if my sample size is big enough but I've found rounded rectangle pads and the least exposed area possible gives me better alignment. I usually leave the pads big to get the soldering iron on but since using the assembly service I've been shrinking the pads to the bare minimum and keeping the mask opening small. My hunch is the rounded corners help the surface tension pull the components nice and square. I'm also careful to route the tracks directly out either side of the small packages I want to end up nice and straight to avoid asymmetric heating pulling them off center.

[WillTurner]

I'm in the early stages of working up a design for assembly. It seems to me that part rotation is a problem. Since I'm not yet that familiar with the LCSC component selection I've been looking up the data sheets. It seems to me that it's not that much more difficult to look at the EasyEDA footprint on the same page, and jot down the orientation. If necessary, I can then create a rotated KiCAD footprint to match. Won't that solve the problem? The downside is that it may be necessary to keep multiple footprints in different orientations for a given standard package, keeping track of which circuit symbol is linked to which footprint, but I already have to link the circuit symbol to the LCSC part number. I know it's not ideal, but having to later check the orientation of every package on the board isn't ideal either.
  Is this a reasonable approach or folly?

[WillTurner]

One other thought ... the JLCPCB basic list of LCSC components incorporates part numbers and manufacturers that I wouldn't otherwise recognize. I find myself going back to specifications to select components. Where I would previously trust a manufacturer's reputation, I am now placing my trust in JLCPCB's selection of parts from LCSC. It would be worth good money to be able to get your company's product onto the basic 600 component list with the list constrained by physical numbers of pick and place machines on the assembly line. What a master stroke! Somewhat similar to paying for product placement on the supermarket shelves. The only catch is, if JLC puts up a dud component, it's reputation goes down the toilet.

[MarkR42]

I'm in the early stages of working up a design for assembly. It seems to me that part rotation is a problem.

It is not really bad, because JLC's component placement previewer will show you exactly where and in what orientation every component will be. If they get it wrong, you can tell fairly easily (if it's a complicated board, it might be a good idea to get a 2nd pair of eyes on it).

While their rotations aren't completely standardised, it's easy to detect errors. For simple boards you might be able to manually modify your placement file to fix it. For more complicated things, create a tool or script (similar to the several which are linked to in this thread) which fixes them automatically.

I know it's not ideal, but having to later check the orientation of every package on the board isn't ideal either.

I think it's a good idea. If we have boards assembled by some other service, we usually have to trust their technicians to spot any incorrect rotations and fix them in their own pnp software which we cannot see.

[OwO]

I only ever use JLC SMT to place passives. It's useful for prototyping, but don't think about using it for production. You will never be able to get a design to use only JLC SMT parts, and even if you do they have trouble keeping those chips in stock anyway. What I do find useful is to design with passives on one side of the board and chips on the other side. That theoretically makes it possible to do small production runs, with JLC assembling one side and your home pnp machine doing the other side. That way you only need <20 feeders on your machine.

[JLCPCB Official]

One other thought ... the JLCPCB basic list of LCSC components incorporates part numbers and manufacturers that I wouldn't otherwise recognize. I find myself going back to specifications to select components. Where I would previously trust a manufacturer's reputation, I am now placing my trust in JLCPCB's selection of parts from LCSC. It would be worth good money to be able to get your company's product onto the basic 600 component list with the list constrained by physical numbers of pick and place machines on the assembly line. What a master stroke! Somewhat similar to paying for product placement on the supermarket shelves. The only catch is, if JLC puts up a dud component, it's reputation goes down the toilet.

Hello sir, can you tell me more about the meaning of your last sentence? I'm really sorry I didn't understand. Do you mean the components we provide are not good, or the way we run the SMT service is not good?

[WillTurner]

Hi JLCPCB "Official"!

Firstly, I appreciate that JLCPCB takes an interest in forum discussions. I really appreciate what is being offered, and have no hesitation in recommending JLCPCB to others. JLCPCB should be proud of the innovative service being provided. I am also aware of cultural differences, as you should be too. Perhaps some things are best left to slide.

Nevertheless, in response to your "please explain", I think I pointed out something obvious from thinking about the assembly service with a beginners mind. The assembly process sets a limit on the number of basic components that are loaded permanently on the line. That number is approximately 600 components. Those components obviously need to cover the generic components needed in every design, a range of resistors, capacitors, etc that are the principal incentive for the user to submit a board for assembly and accordingly reduce the amount of hand assembly (or OwO's method of using two sides and perhaps another automated assembly process on the other side).

Again, to point out the obvious, we all develop a sense of trust in the vendors that we use. I think the supermarket analogy works well in this context. If I like Arnott's Monte Carlo's, I'm much more likely to try Arnott's new Chilli Blueberry Tim Tams. (No offense Arnott's, we like your products too  ). In fact, looking behind the scenes, Arnott's probably employs a bunch of psychologists, marketing managers, product placement staff and the like to engage with the supermarket chains, get their product onto the shelves, and into the shoppers trolley.

Like the supermarket shelves, space for components in the "basic" list for JLCPCB PCBA is limited. That makes the space valuable.

So, say I like Sunsang MLCC capacitors. In fact, say I love them in X7R. Sadly, what if the 13pF 0906 capacitor isn't available, even though it is a common value . I might extend my circle of trust to an otherwise unknown vendor's component within the "basic" range. Even better, it might be in C0G. Next time, it won't matter so much, because I'll trust the new vendor just a bit more. They will have entered my circle. Strewth, I might even prefer the home brand gingernuts in time.

So, my basic point is that the supermarket shelf space is valuable, and the biscuit manufacturers are well advised to work hard to get their fine product front and center. It must be hard for a new biscuit company to get their product to be accepted. I'm guessing there would be a whole range of strategies, probably more than I care to spend time thinking about. Maybe a "special 3 month promotional, limited time offer, at a discount rate" would get that chilli-choco-treat into my basket on this weeks shop  . But that treat from the new vendor had better be faultless (not a "dud"). If it ever falls short of my expectations, I'll probably not try the brand again. Maybe I'll bake bonza bikkies at home.

Trust is the valuable commodity, don't you think?

Edit: Sorry, too mean . There is nothing wrong with the components, or the service.

[thinkfat]

Why would Samsung fight to get a specific capacitor into the JLCPCB assembly line? Your analogy doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

[eliocor]

@WillTurner:
 Please remember that this is an international forum: your confused references to local food products cannot be easily understood (if at all) by the most part of people....
 
I also concur with thinkfat: "Your analogy[/analysis] doesn't make a lot of sense"

[phil from seattle]

I agree the analogy is a bit strained but it's still clear - out of stock components force a person to use other, less well known, companys' components. For those companies, getting into the component library is important gaining broader recognition.

However, I believe JLC's library is small in the logistics area.  LCSC is far more important.  And getting the part designed into high volume products is key.

[nuclearcat]

Thats a point of cheap prototyping, you use what is available.
If you want something else, then seems it is time to use another service.
Extending your analogy - you can get cheap and quick Double Cheeseburger in fastfood chain, like McDonalds or Burger King, that might have meat sourced today on one farm, tomorrow on another one.
And if you want black angus meat sourced from Australia specific farm, even it is popular, thats quite a bit different cost and time.
(Don't take it as insult, JLC, your fastfood most healthy PCB fastfood i ever tried, i dont mind eating there daily )
P.S. I think after all this sanctions madness, corona disaster and predicted by @eevblog supply chain disruption - over, i am sure supply will be more stable.

[bitseeker]

Yeah, even Mouser is running out of stuff, which my friend and I haven't encountered prior to the virus.

[phil from seattle]

Yeah, even Mouser is running out of stuff, which my friend and I haven't encountered prior to the virus.

I dunno, availability has been an ongoing issue for every disti I've ever used in the last 20 years. Nothing new.

[WillTurner]

It seems to me that it's not that much more difficult to look at the EasyEDA footprint on the same page, and jot down the orientation. If necessary, I can then create a rotated KiCAD footprint to match. Won't that solve the problem?
<snip>
  Is this a reasonable approach or folly?

To answer my own question ... yes, this works, and is a good approach. I'm "in production", and submitted without any corrections to rotation.

[russdx]

I used to use macroFab but recently there prices have gone CRAZY high plus seem to force you to order more then one board now so not so keen on them any more.

Placed an order with JLBPCB for some prototype boards and was happy with the process and price (had 2 rotate some chips), its very much like macrofab (just 100 times cheaper lol) There are two limitations though, you must use there parts lib (which is quite limited) and no through hole or even any connectors of any type. because of these two reasons id never be able to use them for a full x100/x500/x1000 production run which is a shame because the prices are fantastic.

I am hoping in the future they expand there parts lib or even let you use other parts on larger runs with a small setup sourcing fee etc.. I can probably replace most of my through hole parts with SMD so that's probably not a problem thinking about it.

So yeah allowing none stocked parts to be sourced for a small fee would be fantastic I hope this will come in the future.

[thinkfat]

I needed a lot of a LEDs placed. I tried out the assembly service, and ... game changer! They didn't have the shift register in stock, but not a huge chore to do by hand compared to hundreds of LEDs.

It's a little unfortunate the second row is perfectly spaced and the top shows some irregularity, but functionally all of the prototypes have no bridges - the 0603s are 1mm apart so there is .2mm space between each.

 

(Attachment Link)

You could allow a little bit larger pull-back for the ground planes, makes life easier when routing the PCB outline...

[usagi]

Looks like JLCPCB doesn't support any FPC/FFC parts for assembly... 

[KlausKragelund]

I am reviewing Altium, and like very much the JLC manufactoring service

I found a 2 year old Altium library, but a lot of the parts from LCSC is missing

Right now I use SnapEDA to find the parts, but that takes time and could be error prone

Is there a newer/updated Altium library?

[SMTech]

Looks like JLCPCB doesn't support any FPC/FFC parts for assembly... 

My experience with these connector types leads me not to blame them. Matching the vision systems version of component center with whatever the CAD/Designer library/footprint has defined as center with a location on the PCB is often a total crapshoot and usually requires me to make significant tweaks to make all those things line up. When we want an FPC connector on a board its often because a 3rd party part requires it which means you have to use the compatible socket which in turn makes JLC job of choosing a generic and popular one basically impossible. On top of that FPC connectors are lane hungry, one part is going to want space on the machine that would otherwise take 3-6 parts. At some point if you want bespoke contract manufacturing you need to pay for it.

[VEGETA]

Does other manufacturers offer the same cheap assembly service as JLCPCB?? I read somewhere that some of them started doing so.

[MarkR42]

Does other manufacturers offer the same cheap assembly service as JLCPCB?? I read somewhere that some of them started doing so.

Not that I have found. Also not with the same level of workflow integration / automation.

Turnkey (low-volume) assembly from other companies is very different from what JLC offer: there is a lot more human interaction involved. The quotes are less algorithmic. The process is much more manual and quite a lot of trust required that the engineering drawings/ diagrams / placement files etc, are sufficient to correctly assemble boards. They will take the BOM and try to get the parts (or possibly equivalents) from their suppliers, and give a quote. Mostly they get competitive quotes, sometimes not, you have to check and query if they give uncompetitive parts rates.

I think the biggest value of what JLC are offering is a highly automated review scheme which allows checking the part orientation, placement etc. The biggest problem is that their parts library is limited (as others have pointed out - they do not have ANY connectors) and often runs out of stock of vital parts. So you could get an excellent deal on assembly one month, and have no parts available next month.

If JLC can't do what you want, I'd encourage you to check other assemblers, there will be less automation but I've noticed they do like to give quotes very quickly. All responses I have had have been < 1 business day.

[c64]

Does other manufacturers offer the same cheap assembly service as JLCPCB?? I read somewhere that some of them started doing so.

Unlikely. JLC can do it because they have integration with LCSC. I don't know any other pcb / assembly companies who also sell parts.

[thinkfat]

Does other manufacturers offer the same cheap assembly service as JLCPCB?? I read somewhere that some of them started doing so.

Unlikely. JLC can do it because they have integration with LCSC. I don't know any other pcb / assembly companies who also sell parts.

LCSC is a distributor and sells parts to everybody. If they're doing business properly, JLC is just another customer.

What is outstanding about the JLC SMT service is how seamlessly it integrates with the PCB store front. Handling all that complexity with a minimum amount of human interaction is a big hurdle other manufacturers will have to jump. The next thing is raw floor space. Can you imagine how many SMT machines they have in operation and how the lines have to be layed out to route boards through the different machines efficiently? After all, it's hardly possible that one single line can satisfy all parts requests. The SMT service alone is a massive operation.

[VEGETA]

Does other manufacturers offer the same cheap assembly service as JLCPCB?? I read somewhere that some of them started doing so.

Unlikely. JLC can do it because they have integration with LCSC. I don't know any other pcb / assembly companies who also sell parts.

LCSC is a distributor and sells parts to everybody. If they're doing business properly, JLC is just another customer.

What is outstanding about the JLC SMT service is how seamlessly it integrates with the PCB store front. Handling all that complexity with a minimum amount of human interaction is a big hurdle other manufacturers will have to jump. The next thing is raw floor space. Can you imagine how many SMT machines they have in operation and how the lines have to be layed out to route boards through the different machines efficiently? After all, it's hardly possible that one single line can satisfy all parts requests. The SMT service alone is a massive operation.

So how much price are we talking about?

say I have A4 size panel with about 5-10 pieces each. About 10-15 unique parts, and about 10-30 panels to make. How much setup cost and total cost as approximation?

JLC SMT service eliminates setup costs according to my understanding. LCSC is for sure a game changer since it is like Digikey but in China and includes millions of Chinese dirt-cheap parts in somehow professional way... not like Aliexpress which has separate unreliable shops.

[phil from seattle]

They don't eliminate setup costs - there is an engineering fee but it is relatively small and makes small orders economic.

They took a bet that a mostly automated service would be popular. Based on what I can see, they seriously underestimated that. I would not be surprised to see other PCB services (Allpcb, pcbway, seeeeeed,...) jumping in. If anyone ever offers a reasonable set of connectors and other mechanicals, they will be getting my orders.

By the way, they are clearly trying to discourage the really small orders - 5 units or less.  In the last couple of months they appear to have significantly increased the number of components with minimum order numbers and I see a lot more parts with attrition. In the last couple of weeks  I did a proto run for a design and really only needed 3 boards but the cost difference between 3 and 10 was really small (about $1 each for the extra boards) so I had 10 made. Yet, they still limit you to 30 units per assembly job.

[SMTech]

Even with the limitations, the amount of work that went into creating the workflow they have will have been pretty significant and will need to be replicated by anyone who wants to do something similar, does it even make a decent margin... who knows?

[miceuz]

Doh. I tried that. First order they placed wrong resistors. I had 330 ohm and 1M ones, they skipped 1M ones and placed 330R everywhere.
No problem for the second order though...

[c64]

Doh. I tried that. First order they placed wrong resistors. I had 330 ohm and 1M ones, they skipped 1M ones and placed 330R everywhere.

Really... Was it recently?