Author Topic: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap  (Read 16796 times)

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Offline janekm

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JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« on: September 26, 2018, 12:30:20 pm »
JLC have since last year (I think) been offering a prototype PCB assembly service. It's very interesting because they run it very differently from anyone else (that I'm aware of). So far this service is only offered within mainland China, though presumably they will offer it at some point through their International website as well. The price is starting at 50RMB for 10 boards assembled (in addition to the PCBM fee which is typically also 50RMB), or <$8.

- They can only place a limited set of components that they have defined. So far there are 6343 in their list (though perhaps 80% of those are "extended" parts which require an additional fee, presumably those are not already loaded on the P&P robots). They are doing a fairly good job of including popular parts such as CP2102 / CP2104, some basic logic chips, common LDOs, opamps, AVRs, STM32s ,STC.
- They offer their own component library for the parts they have defined (Altium, PADS are supported). Of course EasyEDA also has those components, though surprisingly so far the integration doesn't work as well as with the Altium component library.
- I get the sense that the service is highly automated. They have to have two tooling holes on each PCB (which apparently can be holes that are already in the design if they are indicated on the gerbers, I haven't worked this process out yet). I assume they are using solder paste dispensing robots rather than stencil as they don't require a stencil file and the un-mounted pads do not have solder on them.
- You can choose either 2 or 10 PCBs to be assembled.
- You have to buy all the components they place from them (makes sense), the price is not excessive (but more than the cheapest Shenzhen price). Not an issue for prototypes, of course. For reference, my all-in price for the 10 pieces I had assembled, which include two quite expensive components (MPU6050 and CP2104), was 466RMB, or $68. 300RMB out of that was those two expensive components.
- They have developed online tooling for doing the DFM check with preview pictures of placement and polarity of each component. Very nice. Their DFM check appears to be a bit overly fussy so far as it keeps complaining about pad angle from parts from their own component library (but placed no problem in the end).
- I ordered a set on the 22nd and have the boards in front of me today, the 26th. They don't offer a rush service but can't really complain about that anyway  ;D

I have to say I'm pretty impressed... It's a pretty innovative way of running a prototype PCB assembly service.

I am planning to make a little Youtube video on how the ordering process works as it's quite interesting. Let me know any suggestions for what to include. Might take a while though as I'm not a professional youtuber  :-DD

In theory it should be possible to order this service from overseas by using a "Taobao agent", though it may be easier to just wait for JLC to offer it internationally.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 12:32:00 pm by janekm »
 
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 08:39:13 am »
Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.
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Offline janekm

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 11:13:35 am »
Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.


It's part of their portal if you make an account on their Chinese site: https://www.sz-jlc.com/

The SMT service is described further here: https://www.sz-jlc.com/portal/newV2/smt.jsp
There's pictures of rows of P&P machines, one is labeled 5-FR(35-1) suggesting there may be quite a few of them, which would be the easiest (though not cheap to set up...) way to run this kind of service. That's my working hypothesis so far... that they have enough p&p machines to handle all the basic components and a few extra to support the extended component range.

The PCBA part of the service is super-fast, my PCBs left QC in the PCBM part of the factory at 15:51 on Tuesday, were p&p at 16:56, QCd at 00:56 on Wednesday, and in my hands by 19:00 on Wednesday. Not much time for any kind of manual processing.
I've got another board going through it right now, just entered the PCBA department at 18:34 this evening so I'll be impressed if they get that shipped tonight  :popcorn:

And the Altium libraries are here:  http://club.szlcsc.com/article/details_963_1.html (Needs an account on gitee which is a kind of Chinese github clone).

 

Offline janekm

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2018, 11:24:38 am »
Also just found a publicly accessible component list: https://www.sz-jlc.com/home/smtComponentList.html

Also does mention that they have 32 p&p machines and don't change the feeders on the basic library components.

According to their website they have 689 basic components and 4000 extended, but the database already shows more than that.
 

Offline newbie666

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 08:42:09 pm »
Really interested in development of this thread. Having boards assembled for 8 bucks a pop sounds like a dream - even if I have to limit myself to the parts they have in stock.

Would you be able to reach out to their customer service (since you already have an account on chinese website) to ask if they will ever offer that service outside of China?

Do you have your boards shipped abroad or you're based in China as well?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 11:22:29 pm »
Really interested in development of this thread. Having boards assembled for 8 bucks a pop sounds like a dream - even if I have to limit myself to the parts they have in stock.

Would you be able to reach out to their customer service (since you already have an account on chinese website) to ask if they will ever offer that service outside of China?

Do you have your boards shipped abroad or you're based in China as well?
I'd also be interested in the quality of the parts used.
 

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 04:22:11 am »
Following to see how this develops for international ordering.
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Online blueskull

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 05:43:29 pm »
I'd also be interested in the quality of the parts used.

Presumably the same parts sold by LCSC.
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Offline janekm

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2018, 07:16:05 am »
Sorry for the late response, I've been on holiday (following the local custom in China...).

Yes, the parts are the same ones as sold by LCSC who seem to have a good reputation for stocking original parts compared to other Chinese distributors. I haven't used them much myself so can't comment beyond what I heard from others.

I'll see whether I can get some information from their marketing department about International ordering. I don't imagine the regular customer support staff would know about those sorts of plans.

Yes I'm based in Shenzhen so I can just get the boards shipped to me directly with same/next day delivery  >:D

My second set of boards arrived, seems they still managed to send them out just before heading on holiday which is nice to see. Haven't got all the other components necessary to build it up yet though.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2018, 07:32:48 am »
I’ve just received a couple of orders from LCSC. All parts seem good. In fact I’ve been evaluating some of the smaller brand parts as well and they’re all good. No more expensive LDOs for me.

I’ve ordered a few boards from JLCPCB as well now. Genuinely I am impressed so far. Assembly is very interesting to me as I’m hand assembling prototypes at the moment so if they can put down the more difficult packages that opens a whole new world to me.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2018, 08:31:32 am »
I've bought many hundreds of reels of passives from them,  lots of connectors, and some IC's..   They are not that good ( price wise ) at Microcontrollers and special purpose Chips.. However no issues with the parts that i have had from them.   Their web site however is just insane.
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Offline bd139

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2018, 08:53:09 am »
I think the MCU and some of the special purpose parts have a pretty tight supply chain when it comes to pricing.

I'm quite impressed with one thing. I get through a lot of 3.3V and 5V LDOs. Decided to try some non mainstream brand ones from "Guangdong Hottech" which is a Holtek 7550 clone. You simply can't get anything this low in the UK from major disties and at $0.05 a go low volume it makes a big dent in a BOM. Amazingly over the spread of 10 I tested SOA, transient response, shorts, overloads, drop-out, they are absolutely spot on.

Web site takes getting used to. It's very noisy.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2018, 09:31:26 am »
Yes, really very difficult to use, when you compare to the likes of Digikey.
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Offline janekm

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2018, 07:27:56 am »
Well, at least with the PCBA service you don't need to navigate the component distribution side, since it can pick the components from your BOM (if you use their parts library it includes their stock number to match it).
The interface looks like Windows 95 generation but it's quite functional, with some good features like being able to verify parts placement and orientation before final order.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 07:14:12 am »
Does their library just have the parts that are avaialble on teh PNP, or everything?
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Offline janekm

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 02:22:26 pm »
It's only got the parts that are available for no extra charge (presumably these are the ones that are always left on the p&p machines). The website also lists other parts that they can mount for an extra fee (if you use their part number the online tools should identify them, or you can do a search to match them).
 

Offline EngiBob

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2019, 08:16:20 pm »
This is pretty great.  If they can partially assemble a board with all the passives and let me finish the ICs and exotic parts it would open a world of projects I can't afford to get fab'd and am not willing to make by hand.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2019, 10:21:29 pm »
This is pretty great.  If they can partially assemble a board with all the passives and let me finish the ICs and exotic parts it would open a world of projects I can't afford to get fab'd and am not willing to make by hand.

welcome to EEVBLog Bob.    There are of course tricky issues that make partial assembly a challenge.  For example If you want to use more complex parts that are SMT without a stencil it can be quite a challenge.
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Online OwO

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2019, 07:35:49 am »
Have all the passives on the bottom side and the chips on the top side of the board. That's what I've been doing for all my projects and I can build shit with this with 100s of parts with just minutes of manual labor.
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Offline RobBarter

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2019, 09:18:51 am »
Just had a quick re-scan of the JCLPCB website and am I right that assembly is still only available in China (except via the agent route)?
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Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2019, 09:35:30 am »
Have all the passives on the bottom side and the chips on the top side of the board. That's what I've been doing for all my projects and I can build shit with this with 100s of parts with just minutes of manual labor.

An interesting idea, but quite restrictive on what you couild build.
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Offline EngiBob

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2019, 02:06:19 pm »
Thanks.  I'm only really afraid of bga/lga but I've pulled off some for prototypes reflowing with hot air.   I can do LQFP 144s .5mm pitch in about 30 seconds, just healthily tin the pads and then lots of flux, align and drag.  QFNs are a little harder but the same method works and solder paste and a heat gun work surprisingly with a little trial and error on getting the correct amount of paste down.  I mostly do IoT style stuff with MCUs and usually a handful of various ICs.
 I've designed several projects where the large pin counts drive up production costs like crazy and the large amount of passives means I'm not profitable making it by hand due to the time involved.  A single LQFP 144 adds about $1.50-$3.00 per board in China and about $10/board in the US (about $.01-$.02/pin vs $.07/pin US)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 02:10:32 pm by EngiBob »
 

Offline Bauck

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2019, 03:59:41 pm »
This is very interesting.
I sent them an email asking if they will provide this service internationally in the future and they replied with that the will provide it in the future soon. I don't know if "soon" is a couple of month or a year, and I don't think I will get a more detailed answer, but we will get this globally eventually :D

It would be interesting though to see a video about the process. Is it possible for someone that dont speak a word Chinese to be able to order? (using an agent ofc).

BTW: doesn't it say 0.01 yuan per joint which is more like 0.0015USD -> 0.21usd for a LQFP144?
 

Offline janekm

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2019, 02:24:31 pm »
This is very interesting.
I sent them an email asking if they will provide this service internationally in the future and they replied with that the will provide it in the future soon. I don't know if "soon" is a couple of month or a year, and I don't think I will get a more detailed answer, but we will get this globally eventually :D

It would be interesting though to see a video about the process. Is it possible for someone that dont speak a word Chinese to be able to order? (using an agent ofc).

BTW: doesn't it say 0.01 yuan per joint which is more like 0.0015USD -> 0.21usd for a LQFP144?

Yes you're right 1 Fen (0.01RMB) per joint. Which is cheap for prototype assembly even in China.

I don't speak / read much Chinese and I managed to make it work. Takes a bit of clicking around the website to figure out the flow. Basically you order the PCBs first, ticking the box that assembly is desired. Then upload the PCBA files, go through the process of linking component names to the ones in their database (you can search for each component and pick from a pop-up window), confirm which components you want assembled, verify the rough picture of component placements, then wait for their staff to "audit" the order, then pay for PCBM & PCBA together. Finally they will produce a more detailed placement picture.
I found the flow a little easier uploading the Altium file directly rather than gerbers / P&P files as their agents filled in some of the needed info already (but I had to re-upload the BOM as they didn't match all the headers the way I intended).

It might be easier to make it work with a forwarding company rather than a regular taobao agent (as a normal agent just wouldn't know how to deal with that kind of order). You'll also need someone to top up an Alipay account so you can pay (again there's some companies offering that service from what I recall).

I tried convincing them to make a video of their facility but they were understandably keen to protect their competitive advantage (I do think they do a few clever things to assemble multiple orders together). They did say they were going to offer International orders some time this year.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 02:34:01 pm by janekm »
 

Offline DerRiedi

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2019, 06:41:36 pm »
Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.


It's part of their portal if you make an account on their Chinese site: https://www.sz-jlc.com/


Can you tell me how I make an account if I have no chinese phone number?  |O
 

Offline eddperks

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2019, 08:08:18 am »
FYI I have been asking Dillon off the Easy EDA forum (part of the JLC group) about international PCBA services for a while now, and he has said they are coming 'soon' for nearly a year now!

Lets all drop them emails requesting the international PCBA to let them know we want it.
 

Offline ev4n

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2019, 08:56:20 am »
Hi,

It's about to launch (i was told end of July):
https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly

From everything i've read here and playing around there are a couple of ways of using this:
1) Browse LCSC for stock, then search Altium GIT libraries for the same part
2) Using EasyEDA browse components using the "SMT" library option and drop them on a blank schematic. You can then export the schematics and PCB footprints.

Option 2) looks like the best way to go since you can check the stock levels and maybe the symbols/footprints/part numbers etc will be more compatible with their system.

I've created a template Altium project with JLCPCB rules, stack-up for 4-layer board and placed a bunch of common parts (0402, 0603, 0805 caps/res etc) on a blank schematic. Will share once i've had a chance to submit using their SMT line.

 
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Offline bd139

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2019, 09:08:59 am »
Thanks for the heads up. Really interested in this.  :-+
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2019, 10:39:21 am »
pcb fab spamming ????
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Offline bd139

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2019, 10:42:39 am »
Possible but it's on topic and informative and 100% in context in this case so I'm ok with it.
 

Offline sokoloff

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2019, 11:28:37 am »
Possible but it's on topic and informative and 100% in context in this case so I'm ok with it.
I'm always on guard for slippery slopes, but I have to agree 100% in this specific case.
 

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2019, 11:33:59 am »
Thats funny' two first time posters immediately hitting it off, hm, OK I'll pretend for now, flinch and your out!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 11:51:36 am by Simon »
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Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2019, 11:40:03 am »
Yeh, spam. But I am a little bit excited about it so its OK by me.

The 'basic' component list is useful, just getting passives fitted would be a big help.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2019, 11:50:07 am »
pcb fab spamming ????

Looks that way on the surface, but not evidence behind the scenes.
Another paid PCB voucher program thing if real users promote in other forums?
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2019, 10:40:25 pm »
1) Browse LCSC for stock, then search Altium GIT libraries for the same part
2) Using EasyEDA browse components using the "SMT" library option and drop them on a blank schematic. You can then export the schematics and PCB footprints.

Option 2) looks like the best way to go since you can check the stock levels and maybe the symbols/footprints/part numbers etc will be more compatible with their system.

For 1) I assume you just mean search through online Altium libs to see if anyone has created it, and there is no official LCSC lib.
2) is cool, didn't realize they had an "Export to Altium" option, surprising.. must mean a lot about the state of the tool in China.

edit: I tried placing one part and altium wouldn't open the schematic file, didn't bother testing further.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 12:22:08 am by thm_w »
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2019, 11:29:27 pm »
1) Browse LCSC for stock, then search Altium GIT libraries for the same part
2) Using EasyEDA browse components using the "SMT" library option and drop them on a blank schematic. You can then export the schematics and PCB footprints.

Option 2) looks like the best way to go since you can check the stock levels and maybe the symbols/footprints/part numbers etc will be more compatible with their system.

For 1) I assume you just mean search through online Altium libs to see if anyone has created it, and there is no official LCSC lib.
2) is cool, didn't realize they had an "Export to Altium" option, surprising.. must mean a lot about the state of the tool in China.

Its very widespread because you can "buy" a copy for 50RMB @ the Huaqiangbei Electronics Market.

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Offline ev4n

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2019, 06:25:11 am »
Details on the 'official' library are here (i had to use google translate):

http://club.szlcsc.com/article/details_963_1.html

I don't know who's maintaining it.

The EasyEDA library seems to be complete with symbols/footprints for all the stocked parts. It took me about 15min to create a library with 10 unique parts - good enough for me. I prefer to keep a separate library per project anyway. It's probably quicker than Digikey's symbol/footprint tool.
 

Offline Harvs

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2019, 08:22:13 am »
Given the cost of a stencil is almost as much as their NRE (which includes the stencil, but you don't get it in the end), when this is up and running there as long as it's not a PITA to get libraries configured for them, I can't see any reason not to use the service (or a similar one from someone else).
 

Offline mskeete

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2019, 09:26:34 am »
I found that link a few days ago but thought it was already mentioned here otherwise I would have posted it.

Can't wait.
 

Offline ev4n

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2019, 08:37:31 pm »
I pushed them for an updated date and got the following response :( So i guess sometime this month...

 

Offline SMTech

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2019, 08:47:57 pm »
Interesting, slightly limited perhaps if you want specific brands of things there's some huge gaps in that list. Green green green
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2019, 12:28:01 am »
The EasyEDA library seems to be complete with symbols/footprints for all the stocked parts. It took me about 15min to create a library with 10 unique parts - good enough for me. I prefer to keep a separate library per project anyway. It's probably quicker than Digikey's symbol/footprint tool.

This is kind of surprising, they have symbols/footprints for these oddball parts, but then when you go to search by parameters often a lot are missing or not available to search by..
Wonder if they've automated the symbol generation to some extent, or pulled from an existing library.

 

Offline Harvs

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2019, 09:41:45 am »
So is anyone else running a competing service?

In particular I'm thinking of the very fast turn time on a standard library of parts.  I haven't seen anything else like it from the other suppliers I've used.

Being able to order a prototype board with the majority of jellybean parts mounted for an extra 24hrs really would be a significant change to how I'd do prototyping.

Though I don't understand the 2/4-layer limitation.  A number of times I've used 6-layers on a low quantity design where it made the design easier and quicker to route (and hence cheaper when time is factored in.)  But it would be no different to actually assemble the PCB.
 

Offline Harvs

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2019, 10:04:18 am »
So I politely asked about the 6-layer thing, the response I got was:

"Thank you for your support,but it is our of our capability now."

So effectively a non-answer.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2019, 10:17:09 am »
Was not quite entirely clear where the repo was. but anyway.


git clone https://gitee.com/JLC_SMT/JLCSMT_LIB.git
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 10:19:51 am by mrpackethead »
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Offline sokoloff

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2019, 10:49:00 am »
It may be that they don't make 6+ layer boards in the same factory as the PnP equipment and can't take the 6 layer boards in as full panels for downstream processing. Or, it could just be that they predict that not enough people order 6 layer boards for assembly that they'd be running full panels (of mixed boards) and placing components on 1% of the board area or having to handle the 1% of boards by hand (not as panels).
 

Online OwO

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2019, 01:49:57 pm »
They are using one big stencil per panel and that only works if there are enough customer designs to combine onto a panel, all of which must be PCBA orders.
つぁおにずぞんしばだい。
 

Offline Harvs

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2019, 10:15:46 pm »
That makes sense re volume of orders for 6-layer.  I guess in time that'll change.

Just looking at their website now, the price has gone down even further.  So now the setup fee is less than buying a stencil. Unbelievable...

"Prices start at $7.00 set up fee,$0.002 assembly fee per joint. No stencil charges"
 

Offline TimCambridge

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2019, 10:53:19 pm »
I looked at one part: XC7A75T-2FGG484I. Around $130 at Digi and Mouser, $26 at LCSC. A mistake I expect, or is this another wrinkle in the Chinese market?
 

Online ataradov

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2019, 11:17:42 pm »
The prices are probably real, I also noticed a few ICs that are way too expensive on DigiKey, yet very cheap on LCSC. But I've been tracking availability over time, and it is not good. So you may get those 50 pcs, and nothing after.
Alex
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2019, 07:05:49 am »
I looked at one part: XC7A75T-2FGG484I. Around $130 at Digi and Mouser, $26 at LCSC. A mistake I expect, or is this another wrinkle in the Chinese market?

Digi and Mouser are extremely easy, but extremely expensive.   
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Offline Styno

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2019, 07:37:21 am »
I looked at one part: XC7A75T-2FGG484I. Around $130 at Digi and Mouser, $26 at LCSC. A mistake I expect, or is this another wrinkle in the Chinese market?

Digi and Mouser are extremely easy, but extremely expensive.
True, but their shipment quality is way better for it.

Usually I buy full reels from LCSC which is fine, but yesterday I received a few partial reels with LED's (because they didn't have full reels at hand) and those MSL 3 (168 hours) devices came on a reel inside a plastic bubble bag. When you get such devices from Mouser, Digi or Element14 they are packaged airtight anti-static with desiccant bag, moisture indicator card and a note referring to the MSL level.

However, a reel of international brand resistors from LCSC is $2.5 while the same from e.g. Mouser costs €15, that is a big difference. Excluding shipping for LCSC which is included for Mouser so LCSC only works out cheaper when buying multiple reels.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2019, 09:29:28 pm »
Digi and Mouser are extremely easy, but extremely expensive.

Yes but thats not telling the full story here: https://octopart.com/search?q=XC7A75T-2FGG484I
They likely ended up buying the parts cheap, maybe from production overrun or similar, so try to dump them for a relatively low price.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2019, 03:16:18 am »
SZLCSC is extremely huge.   I dont' know how much of china's electronics they supply but its massive. They have buying power that rivals everthing.,
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Offline nigelwright7557

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2019, 05:13:30 am »
I have used JLCPCB quite a few times now and had mostly good service.
A couple of times they have thrown pcb's back at me as there was a problem.
The pcb's checked out fine in my cad system so  I just resent the same files and the next time they accepted them !
Must have been a different guy on the second time.

Its a shame they dont do assembly too as the yare very cheap for pcb's.
Getting low quantity SMD pcb's made isn't cheap with PCBWAY.
So what  I have been doing is making my pcb through hole and the vital SMD have been put on a separate small SMD pcb that I could deal with myself.
Fine scale smd is a pain but the faster and more modern ic's are pretty much all smd now.
I have done a few PIC TQFP 64 pin 0.5mm pitch pcb's now and they 3 out of 4 worked fine.


PCBCAD51 PCB design software https://www.murtonpikesystems.co.uk
 

Offline Fire Doger

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2019, 06:39:44 am »
I have used JLCPCB quite a few times now and had mostly good service.
A couple of times they have thrown pcb's back at me as there was a problem.
The pcb's checked out fine in my cad system so  I just resent the same files and the next time they accepted them !
Must have been a different guy on the second time.

Its a shame they dont do assembly too as the yare very cheap for pcb's.
If they didn't accept GERBER then probably they had a fault or wrong settings during export, second time probably just corrected it by themself.

They do assembly, that's the whole point of post. They did it for China and now they will offer it worldwide. :-//

Although to keep the cost low they accept only parts from their libraries to loading the reels on machines and setup the software which is the most time consuming part of the process.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2019, 07:52:35 am »
So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2019, 08:38:40 am »
So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?

I'd expect that to be the only cost effective way to do it
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2019, 09:19:14 am »
So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?

This is exactly how i run my PNP in our fab.   We now have 3 machines, end end on end with about 240 parts loaded..  THat lets me build nealry 40 differnet products without any significant changes. ( I have to load some trays of IC"s sometimes ). 

The job is split between the machines.

JLCPCB, prboably has 20 in a a line.


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Offline Ribster

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2019, 11:38:13 am »
So let me get this straight. They have dozens of pick n place in series, loaded with standard parts, and each board goes through all of them?

This is exactly how i run my PNP in our fab.   We now have 3 machines, end end on end with about 240 parts loaded..  THat lets me build nealry 40 differnet products without any significant changes. ( I have to load some trays of IC"s sometimes ). 

The job is split between the machines.

JLCPCB, prboably has 20 in a a line.




Which pnp machines do you have mrpackethead ?
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2019, 01:15:46 am »

Which pnp machines do you have mrpackethead ?

2 x Yamaha YV100-ii and 1 x Yamaha YV100-xg

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Offline ev4n

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2019, 05:25:26 am »
The export method using easyeda.com to Altium has some issues:
- Symbols for a component that are split up i.e. U1_A, U1_B don't get imported into Altium properly
- 3D models are not imported

But good news is LCSC.com's CAD library helper "ECAD Models" is really nice albeit a little hacky. It's a Altium "plug-in" that allows you search then directly drop parts onto the schematic page complete with footprint and 3D model. It's missing the LCSC parameters required for SMT like the LCSC part number but i these can be easily added. It's cross platform and as more people use these models they will become more reliable.

Count down the days of having to place a hundred jellybean parts.

I assume they will also apply paste to the pads of components they can't SMT. This is actually going to a huge time/$$$ saver as this will make placing QFNs a breeze with preheating plate, hotair and a lot of flux.
 
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Offline ev4n

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2019, 04:33:43 am »
ETA is now September  :'(
 

Offline wilhe_jo

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2019, 03:22:50 pm »
Any hints about KiCad?

To me it seems they're software-agnostic as long as you use their CPL and BOM format.
This Altium-ecad-library discussion did confuse me a little bit, tough.

73
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2019, 11:29:15 pm »
Have you got a link for the chinese internal service.


It's part of their portal if you make an account on their Chinese site: https://www.sz-jlc.com/

The SMT service is described further here: https://www.sz-jlc.com/portal/newV2/smt.jsp
There's pictures of rows of P&P machines, one is labeled 5-FR(35-1) suggesting there may be quite a few of them, which would be the easiest (though not cheap to set up...) way to run this kind of service. That's my working hypothesis so far... that they have enough p&p machines to handle all the basic components and a few extra to support the extended component range.

The PCBA part of the service is super-fast, my PCBs left QC in the PCBM part of the factory at 15:51 on Tuesday, were p&p at 16:56, QCd at 00:56 on Wednesday, and in my hands by 19:00 on Wednesday. Not much time for any kind of manual processing.
I've got another board going through it right now, just entered the PCBA department at 18:34 this evening so I'll be impressed if they get that shipped tonight  :popcorn:

And the Altium libraries are here:  http://club.szlcsc.com/article/details_963_1.html (Needs an account on gitee which is a kind of Chinese github clone).

Could you upload somewhere their library? I am very curious
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Offline TimCambridge

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2019, 10:19:42 pm »
ETA is now September  :'(
Is there an update on this, it's nearly September...
 

Offline henla464

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2019, 05:08:42 pm »
I asked them a few days ago and got this reply:

"Actually we are trying to set about to open SMT service for the international markets gradually in early September this year.
Now it's in internal testing stage."

Yesterday I got another email with this: "This email is to notify you that the SMT Assembly service from JLCPCB will be start soon. So we want to invite you to be our first test customer." They then asked me to prepare the gerbers, pnp files etc...There wasn't any special link included or anything so I don't think I will be able to order before they open for everyone.

/Henrik
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2019, 05:35:55 pm »
Let's cross our fingers... I've got a 200 component board i need manufactured in just 5pcs...
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Offline henla464

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2019, 10:13:52 pm »
Yes fingers crossed!

I looked at the basic component list and I noticed there are no capacitors on that list. Anyone got an idea why they haven't added some common capacitors to the basic component list? (or did I just not see them?)
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2019, 11:13:49 pm »
Yes fingers crossed!

I looked at the basic component list and I noticed there are no capacitors on that list. Anyone got an idea why they haven't added some common capacitors to the basic component list? (or did I just not see them?)

Where is the basic list? Maybe for cost reasons.
This list has tons of capacitors: https://jlcpcb.com/video/jlcsmt_parts_library.xls
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 11:15:23 pm by thm_w »
 

Offline henla464

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2019, 06:19:20 am »
Ah I now see that they are there but under the category "Inductors (SMD)". Thank you!
 

Offline yombo

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2019, 02:30:58 pm »
Hi!

Are there in the list any connectors? (Basic or extended) I can't find any. I would be interested in a micro USB connector (SMT of course)

I ask because I also didn't find the capacitors because they are mis-categorized.
 

Offline henla464

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2019, 03:35:50 pm »
I only had a quick look but also didn't see any. Searched for the three first micro-usb partnumbers that I found on lcsc.com in the Excel but got no match for them.

Btw, it says "Quote Now" on SMT Assembly instead of "Coming Soon" (at least I think it said that before). It seem to just go to the PCB ordering form though...
 
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Offline teksturi

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2019, 04:03:13 pm »
There is also demo available in this site https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly
someone can test if you modify
https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=yes

to

https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=no

Maybe even order that way?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 04:05:03 pm by teksturi »
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2019, 05:44:32 pm »
Currently i am having errors, when pressing "next" nothing happens.

Correct link will probably be https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?orderType=4
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Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2019, 07:50:54 am »
Yes fingers crossed!

I looked at the basic component list and I noticed there are no capacitors on that list. Anyone got an idea why they haven't added some common capacitors to the basic component list? (or did I just not see them?)

Where is the basic list? Maybe for cost reasons.
This list has tons of capacitors: https://jlcpcb.com/video/jlcsmt_parts_library.xls

From what I found, the excel spreadsheet doesn't line up with the parts that are available for assembly.

There were parts that couldn't be assembled which were in the excel sheet, but there were also a lot of parts available which aren't in that spreadsheet, so things like SMD electrolytic capacitors can now be assembled.

Offline tglev

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2019, 08:36:02 am »
There is also demo available in this site https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly
someone can test if you modify
https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=yes

to

https://jlcpcb.com/quote#/?fromDemo=no

Maybe even order that way?

This does not work, sadly.
The next button in the demo does not work either.

It does feel like we're getting closer and closer to getting PCBA!
 

Offline juwi

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2019, 09:44:31 am »
It is open for test customers.
They still have bugs to fix, but it is going on really cheap. As soon as my project is working through the little bugs I will keep you updated, as of yet I can tell you:

- Gerber Upload as you know
- then you may enable SMT below where Stencil is also
- there you can select whether top or bottom is to be placed
- then you have to upload BOM and CPL
- youll have to confirm each part, which is nicely made with direct access to the datasheets and basics via dropdown in a table
- then you get a render of your pcb with parts where you can check placement

As of now I have some probs with a bunch of resistors they are working on :)

Best regards
Julian

PS: As the Demo seems to be working now, there shall be no need for screenshots?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 10:13:52 am by juwi »
 
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Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2019, 11:42:56 am »
It is open for test customers.
They still have bugs to fix, but it is going on really cheap. As soon as my project is working through the little bugs I will keep you updated, as of yet I can tell you:

- Gerber Upload as you know
- then you may enable SMT below where Stencil is also
- there you can select whether top or bottom is to be placed
- then you have to upload BOM and CPL
- youll have to confirm each part, which is nicely made with direct access to the datasheets and basics via dropdown in a table
- then you get a render of your pcb with parts where you can check placement

As of now I have some probs with a bunch of resistors they are working on :)

Best regards
Julian

PS: As the Demo seems to be working now, there shall be no need for screenshots?
I'm uploading a video this weekend to show the order process :)

Offline juwi

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2019, 03:01:49 pm »
they fixed it, my resistors work now :)

ah yes, no more then 10 so called extended parts are allowed per order.

yours julian
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2019, 03:42:15 pm »
ah yes, no more then 10 so called extended parts are allowed per order.


F**k
Davide Bortolami,
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Offline juwi

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #81 on: September 07, 2019, 04:07:21 pm »
na na... :)

Well, my order is out. I paid less than 10 Dollars for 5 placed boards with some 70 parts each (excluding part/PCB cost of course)

Yes, it is limiting but if you see it as a helping hand preventing you from having to place hundreds of biird feedings like resistors and caps - I like it.
The costly parts I can solder myself after checking the rest. But I dont have to solder some 60 caps and chip resistors. Winner :)

yours julian
 

Offline juwi

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #82 on: September 07, 2019, 04:09:37 pm »
I'm uploading a video this weekend to show the order process :)

The placement preview stopped working after I added all parts - how many parts has your board?

yours julian
 

Offline mskeete

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #83 on: September 07, 2019, 05:11:24 pm »
The placement preview is slow. A few times I thought it had stopped working. On my first attempt I saw nothing as I forgot to convert the placement data to mm
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #84 on: September 07, 2019, 05:13:04 pm »
Ok so a suggestion: add a parameter JCLSMT-rotation in your libraries, add it to the pick and place csv file, then use excel to rotate the chips automatically
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Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #85 on: September 07, 2019, 05:26:59 pm »
I'm uploading a video this weekend to show the order process :)


The placement preview stopped working after I added all parts - how many parts has your board?

yours julian

Preview didn't work on mine when I had an error with the file. It got sorted in the audit though

Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #86 on: September 07, 2019, 05:29:17 pm »
na na... :)

Well, my order is out. I paid less than 10 Dollars for 5 placed boards with some 70 parts each (excluding part/PCB cost of course)

Yes, it is limiting but if you see it as a helping hand preventing you from having to place hundreds of biird feedings like resistors and caps - I like it.
The costly parts I can solder myself after checking the rest. But I dont have to solder some 60 caps and chip resistors. Winner :)

yours julian

Exactly my thought. Any helping hand to solder all the passives is a winner in my book. Shame its green PCBs only, but that's only due to the early stage. Hopefully if it proves popular more options will exist.

Online bitseeker

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #87 on: September 07, 2019, 05:55:51 pm »
Agreed. That's a great time saver for $2/board. Looking forward to seeing the physical results.
I TEA.
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #88 on: September 07, 2019, 06:20:57 pm »
Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
 

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.
Davide Bortolami,
Fermium LABS srl
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #89 on: September 07, 2019, 08:50:02 pm »
Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
  (Attachment Link)

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.

Something odd ball going on with your 5 Pin SOT-23's     They all seem 180degrees out.

On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #90 on: September 07, 2019, 08:54:26 pm »
Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
  (Attachment Link)

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.

Something odd ball going on with your 5 Pin SOT-23's     They all seem 180degrees out.

Yep the only thing straight are resistors and capacitors
Davide Bortolami,
Fermium LABS srl
 

Offline pmnxis

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2019, 10:35:11 pm »
Hello I am beta user too.

There's some issue, some of rotation value ( Pick and place ) is mismatch.

I fixed it manually open the csv file myself.

About this rotation issue, Mainland china sz-jlc explained it very well. but i think they didn't on international port.

BTW there's some issue price is strange.



price is different between lcsc and jlc-smt.

and even that's correct there's no price MOQ 100 or 1000.

hmm I hope they fix this issue.
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2019, 07:15:12 am »
Hello I am beta user too.

There's some issue, some of rotation value ( Pick and place ) is mismatch.

I fixed it manually open the csv file myself.

About this rotation issue, Mainland china sz-jlc explained it very well. but i think they didn't on international port.

BTW there's some issue price is strange.

price is different between lcsc and jlc-smt.

and even that's correct there's no price MOQ 100 or 1000.

hmm I hope they fix this issue.

On my order, I notice some are cheaper than LCSC and a few more expensive. Nothing dramatic like that opto-isolator though.

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2019, 08:35:31 am »
 :popcorn:
Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken.
 

Offline AClockworkOran

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2019, 04:24:08 pm »
Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.
 

Offline Ribster

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2019, 04:41:38 pm »
Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.

Get a simple toaster oven with a triac. Monitor the temperature and feast on succes!
 

Offline AClockworkOran

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #96 on: September 08, 2019, 04:43:25 pm »
Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.

Get a simple toaster oven with a triac. Monitor the temperature and feast on succes!

If I was the one paying i'd have done that a long time ago  ;)
 
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Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #97 on: September 08, 2019, 04:51:44 pm »
Hi

I feel like an idiot right now but the site is not giving me the option for SMT assembly. I've tried multiple GERBERS, loggin in and out, changing browsers and wiping my cookies. Has anyone else experienced this issue or is service in some closed beta?

I'm really keen to test this service as the reflow oven at my University is broken and I'm not keen on soldering 100+ passives by hand.

It's open only to a limited number of existing customers now
If you send an email to the customer service maybe they can enable it for you
Davide Bortolami,
Fermium LABS srl
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #98 on: September 08, 2019, 05:03:22 pm »
(Attachment Link)

For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.


Well I am sticking with PCBWAY for now, i got this board manufactured in 3pcs, spent 307 USD, of which:
* 160 of components (i've got 4$ PGAs and 2.5$ rotary switches there...)
* 100 for the 4-layer pcb. This would have been cheaper on JLCPCB, although I do not trust the quality or competence of the technical staff yet
* 30 USD for assembly and purchasing of all components from a variety of suppliers (including LCSC, the same as JLCPCB)
* shipping

So yeah JLCPCB prices are crazy low but hard to compare with the more rounded assembly services and may not end up being the cheapest solution after all
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 05:05:39 pm by ddavidebor »
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Online bitseeker

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #99 on: September 08, 2019, 11:13:41 pm »
Thanks for the comparison, Davide.
I TEA.
 

Offline pmnxis

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2019, 12:19:54 am »

placed order and paid finally.
There's chinese thanks giving day soon and some legit vacation day. So I guess my order will be delay.
I hope they accept professional business production too even there's higher engineering fee.

I will review my thing is come to me.
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2019, 06:33:37 am »
Assuming there's no problems, you'll probably get it shipped out before the holiday.

Mine has just finished ENIG process, so shouldn't be long now...  :popcorn:

Offline langwadt

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2019, 03:49:23 pm »
Well, for now not enthusiastic about the component availability.
This is what i was able to populate.
  (Attachment Link)

Positioning issues are a huge time sucker.
For now i think i am sticking with PCBWAY for this kind of boards.

The risk of making errors not having a professional doing the positioning is a huge bummer for me. If I screw this two times, my customer is going to kick me where the sun doesn't shine.

Something odd ball going on with your 5 Pin SOT-23's     They all seem 180degrees out.

a good reason to use asymmetrical packages, then it is at least obvious when the rotation is wrong

 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #103 on: September 09, 2019, 07:49:25 pm »
The biggest problem for me in this, is that unless they can supplky all the components, then a partial assmembly is just not going to be useful.   
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline bd139

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #104 on: September 09, 2019, 08:00:25 pm »
It’s fine for first phase production. Most designs can be optimised into their BOM availability. Then you can ship your crap off to another factory for final hand placement or do it yourself. I think I can get my in dev product down to three hand placed parts if I rework some stuff. That’s pretty good and saves me time and money.

Optimisation is key. Compromises need to be made to favour automation and reduced cost.
 

Offline spongle

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2019, 08:23:26 pm »
but at that point is it really cheaper than elecrow, pcbway or some other full service PCBA?
 

Offline tom66

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #106 on: September 09, 2019, 08:30:02 pm »
Depends on whether it is a hobby project or not.
A lot of hobby projects I'm much more willing to put time in versus money, even if my "time" is worth more.
Commercial projects where engineers cost £30+ an hour then it's harder to argue when you are saving only £100 or so...
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #107 on: September 09, 2019, 10:35:34 pm »
Depends on whether it is a hobby project or not.
A lot of hobby projects I'm much more willing to put time in versus money, even if my "time" is worth more.
Commercial projects where engineers cost £30+ an hour then it's harder to argue when you are saving only £100 or so...
Engineers for 30 quid an hour?
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2019, 12:37:12 am »
44-47k Stiring..  is about 22.5 / hour.
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline yombo

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2019, 01:52:11 am »
It is here, I can place assembly orders already!  ;D  :-+

Edit: Where is supposed to be the origin of component coordinates? I can't see my components in the preview.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 02:07:00 am by yombo »
 

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2019, 05:46:32 am »
but at that point is it really cheaper than elecrow, pcbway or some other full service PCBA?

I've posted one example a few post back where it wasn't worth it. It's going to depend primarily on these factors:
* how many of your components they can assemble
    * how many are SMT?
    * how many are in their list?
    * how many are of type "basic" in their list?
* How many they can't?
    * can you get them easily and cheaply? Many suppliers, time spent ordering, shipping cost, duties...
    * are they easy to solder?
* What degree of trustworthiness, experience and reliability do you need?
    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?
* How much is your time worth and what purchasing power does your national currency have against the dollar?



a good reason to use asymmetrical packages, then it is at least obvious when the rotation is wrong

Yep. Love my sot-23-5

Davide Bortolami,
Fermium LABS srl
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #111 on: September 10, 2019, 05:59:33 am »
    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?

The process is better controlled than you're suggesting. They're basically able to offer these boards for this price because your PCBs are being pooled onto the commercial PCB production line otherwise it wouldn't be commercially viable. The manufacture files are reviewed and fixed by their technicians, rotation fixed, placement fixed etc (up to a point...)

Offline ddavidebor

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2019, 06:17:25 am »
    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?

The process is better controlled than you're suggesting. They're basically able to offer these boards for this price because your PCBs are being pooled onto the commercial PCB production line otherwise it wouldn't be commercially viable. The manufacture files are reviewed and fixed by their technicians, rotation fixed, placement fixed etc (up to a point...)

I was referring to the assembly not the PCBs
Davide Bortolami,
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2019, 06:39:31 am »
44-47k Stiring..  is about 22.5 / hour.
I assume that's what they get paid and not what they cost?
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2019, 06:56:57 am »
    * inspection is going to be minimal to keep price down
    * process is heavily automated, so you don't get an expert technician reviewing it
    * how much do you trust yourself getting the positioning right?

The process is better controlled than you're suggesting. They're basically able to offer these boards for this price because your PCBs are being pooled onto the commercial PCB production line otherwise it wouldn't be commercially viable. The manufacture files are reviewed and fixed by their technicians, rotation fixed, placement fixed etc (up to a point...)

I was referring to the assembly not the PCBs

So was I :)

Offline SMTech

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2019, 10:45:31 am »
Given JLC et al run  your PCB designs though an engineer & approval process, I see no reason why they wouldn't also be doing some basic checks on your pick and place data , made somewhat easier by the fact they are heavily encouraging you to use standard set of parts they already know. I wouldn't necessarily expect such a process to spot the more annoying centroid file quirks however, the main one being if you have incorrectly defined your component centers so they instead show Pin1 or some other arbitrary co-ordinate. (although even that isn't out of the question if they can overlay placement data onto gerber)

In a previous posting someone suggested the rotation data was based on its rotation in the tape. This might be true in some cases for certain machines (e.g a Versatronics RV) but in actual fact what you should normally be doing is basing your rotation number on established IPC standards which exist for a reason. An example of why that is can be fairly simply demonstrated with the example of an SO8 device in either tape or a tube - potentially exactly the same part packaged two different ways with different rotations as presented to the pick head. If the rotation definition for the part in the tape and the device in the board all refer back to the same standard you can switch between either packing format with ease. Also good luck finding that data in the datasheet, more likely to either not be there at all or in a separate datasheet detailing the specific package in question.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:52:20 am by SMTech »
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2019, 11:09:14 am »
I wouldn't necessarily expect such a process to spot the more annoying centroid file quirks however, the main one being if you have incorrectly defined your component centers so they instead show Pin1 or some other arbitrary co-ordinate. (although even that isn't out of the question if they can overlay placement data onto gerber)

They definitely go through and check manually. I had to re-issue my board to include polarity markings on the silkscreen for the LEDs. They also fixed a rotated IC.
 
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Offline SMTech

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #117 on: September 10, 2019, 11:48:12 am »
Well rotation is an easy issue to fix & indeed spot. Regardless of who you use, it is very important to mark up LEDs, LED manufacturers are super inconsistent with how they mark up their devices and the technician shouldn't need to wade back though the traces on your circuit to make an educated guess, but IME always put them in the tape the same way round as a standard diode, makes inspection afterwards a real pain however as you can't do it without a datasheet for each LED, even sticking with one manufacturer doesn't help.

Much like the Screaming circuits blogger I typically see default IC rotation out by 270 degrees, data from two clients also rotates 2pin passives which is very odd.
 

Offline pmnxis

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #118 on: September 17, 2019, 01:18:52 pm »
mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

837945-0

837951-1

837957-2
 
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Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #119 on: September 17, 2019, 06:55:14 pm »
mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Is that a short on the RS232 converter IC?
 

Online blueskull

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #120 on: September 17, 2019, 10:02:52 pm »
mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Is that a short on the RS232 converter IC?

Looks like lint to me.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #121 on: September 17, 2019, 11:48:20 pm »
mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

thanks, looks very good, whats with the optos though? Are you using them for low voltage isolation and not high voltage?
 

Offline pmnxis

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #122 on: September 17, 2019, 11:58:04 pm »
I didnt checked yet. I will do this weekend
 

Offline pmnxis

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #123 on: September 18, 2019, 12:00:24 am »
mine came
first image is took by mirrorless camera.
you guys can check quality.

I think not bad for SAMPLE.

I am still fixing my pcb now.

Since I am in korea, so I will start mass product with korean local company.

thanks, looks very good, whats with the optos though? Are you using them for low voltage isolation and not high voltage?

I am using for take a 5 or 12volt singnal or even high
I wanna uses 12v input with esp32. So I used Optocoupler.
I tried to use mosftet and tvs diode for this. But my application’s input voltage can be change somtimes (this mean cannot use resistor voltage dividing, maybe).
Well if there’s better solution i want to adapt it. But for now this is my best
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 12:05:49 am by pmnxis »
 
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #124 on: September 18, 2019, 06:16:17 pm »
Esp32!  :-+  :clap:
Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken.
 

Offline avion23

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #125 on: September 23, 2019, 11:48:46 am »
Has anyone found connectors?

I'm searching for full assembly. The only parts I'm missing are connectors. SMT is fine.

 

Offline mskeete

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #126 on: September 23, 2019, 01:00:16 pm »
Nope. Emailed support about that. No response regarding that
 

Offline cyberfish

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #127 on: September 24, 2019, 04:59:20 pm »
I also asked them, specifically about USB connectors.

They replied asking me for LCSC part numbers. I gave them a few for USB micro-B. They said they will ask the assembly people to add them, but no guarantees.

That was about a week ago. Doesn't look like they have been added.

I'm holding off my trial run because of that - I can't use a stencil to reflow the missing connectors myself if there are already components on the PCB.
 
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Offline ebclr

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JLC PCB 689 Basic components
« Reply #128 on: September 27, 2019, 05:07:52 am »
Do they have a list of those  689 Basic components

Where can I find that fist?
 

Offline yombo

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #129 on: September 27, 2019, 04:43:37 pm »
Here is the component database search page link:

https://jlcpcb.com/client/index.html#/parts
 

Offline pmnxis

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2019, 07:54:50 pm »
Wrote some python script for rotate parts in your Pick and Place csv file.

https://github.com/pmnxis/RotatorPnP

It will be useful if you use own footprint library.

I rotated my new revision of PCB with this script.

And checked it's working well in my case.

and you need to check and modify rulebook csv file for your footprint library and components
 

Offline stefanh

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #131 on: October 09, 2019, 09:16:00 pm »
I am curious to get the complete list of Basic parts. 

is there a way to display more than 10 items per page?

A spreadsheet with a list of all the Basic parts would be ideal, to assist with making a specific LSCS basic parts library.
 

Offline teksturi

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #132 on: October 10, 2019, 09:54:35 am »
A spreadsheet with a list of all the Basic parts would be ideal, to assist with making a specific LSCS basic parts library.
Here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/jlcpcb-smt-assembly-service-208764/msg2728288/#msg2728288

You cannot trust this list blindly. Always check with tools that JLC gives and updates.
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #133 on: October 10, 2019, 03:47:21 pm »
 I guess I really need to start checking in sections I otherwise wouldn't have much interest in - I don't do SMD at home, but I could make my boards a lot smaller using at least SMD passives and using their assembly service to load them. I use EasyEDA and have my boards made by JLC anyway, the last one I also used the BOM and transferred it to an LCSC order and ordered the parts I needed as well, since I didn't have enough on hand to build them all anyway. Might as well integrate one more step. I've used commercial boards which I suspect used a service such as this to offer a "kit" version in which the micro and all the passives were SMD already soldered on and the only actual assembly for the kit was to add a pair of switches and a pair of leaded 3mm LEDs - saving $2.50 per unit by spending a coupe of minutes soldering.
 

Offline DBecker

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #134 on: October 18, 2019, 12:57:20 am »
I just got back my first run of boards through JLC assembly.

My biggest challenge during ordering was the always-mentioned part rotation.  I believe that they use EIA orientation, which is ad hoc, while Kicad consistently puts pin 1 in the upper left quadrant (or on the left in the degenerate two pin case).  I spent many hours working with Kicad scripting and their use of Python 2 (!) in an attempt to automate or document the correction, but in the end I submitted a hand-edited .CPL file.

Their assembly layout visualization tool was a huge help with this.  It clearly marks the polarity or pin 1 of asymmetric devices with a red dot.  Combined with tweaking the silk screen on a few of my footprints it was easy to verify the rotation.

I didn't experience any case of offset components that others have reported.

I had two issues with the BOM matching.  I added LCSC part numbers to everything I wanted populated, but their system always failed to match one or two components.  I changed the component description, but then some other part wouldn't be matched.  I concluded that this matching failure was related to the position in the CSV file, not some error in the file I was generating.

Because I was trying to automate file generation, I went through the ordering process many times.  I quickly tired of clicking 'Confirm' for each of a few dozen part types.  If I provide the LCSC part number in the BOM CSV, I shouldn't have to click confirm unless there is a suspected mis-match.  And then it should tell me enough to fix it for the next attempt.

Finally, the pricing of some of the part was wrong.  It exactly doubled the price of crystals and regulators between confirming the BOM and presenting the final total.  That only added $2-$3 to the total, not enough for me to delay my order by a few frustrating exchanges with customer service, but worth mentioning in a review.

My boards ended up taking an extra day or two longer than projected, with the delay largely between fabrication and assembly.  That pushed the finish time to Saturday, and the DHL pickup wasn't logged until Monday evening (6:57pm Shenzhen time).  But amazingly DHL delivered the boards to California on Tuesday 1:22pm PST.



 
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Offline sokoloff

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #135 on: October 18, 2019, 01:24:51 am »
@DBecker, are any of your tools for automated generation suitable for open source consumption by any chance?
 

Offline pmnxis

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #136 on: October 18, 2019, 05:10:43 am »
I tried to fix rotation automatically by recongnize image on datasheet.
But giving value how many degree to fix myself per part was more effective.

I am glad meet you thought same issue with me and tried to solve this!
 

Offline JohnnyBerg

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #137 on: November 04, 2019, 12:56:34 pm »
My boards arrived today. 226 x 40 mm.
I've used EasyEDA, and send the Gerber. BOM and Pick and Place files without any editing. Worked!

 
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Offline 1Ghz

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #138 on: November 04, 2019, 02:08:59 pm »
My boards arrived today, too.

 

Offline sokoloff

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Re: JLC PCB Prototype Assembly - Incredibly Cheap
« Reply #139 on: November 04, 2019, 02:22:27 pm »
Seems like you probably would have wanted to exclude some of those pads from the stencil layer.
 


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