looking for SMT line, under $USD60K, UIC, Fuji, Assembleon?

[mairo]

Because of the required fumigation, did you get the gear sealed in plastic beforehand? Fumigation may not be good for electronics in particular optical devices - think all the old PC gear that is used to control these machines.

I have had several times in the past gear failing shortly after it was unpacked due to failing HDD because of the fumigation.

Plastic wrapping may not be good enough, best is to be plastic sealed, which is not expensive and can be done easily on small to large items (large like ur PnP machines).

When you said the fumigation was expensive, did you get it done here or in US? Normally I get this done in the states (if it comes from there). I guess you also had to pay for the whole container.

[loki42]

Thanks for the heads up, It is plastic wrapped  but not plastic sealed. I'll pester them about the machine that aren't here yet.

The cost for fumigation isn't actually the fumigation but because there's a few weeks wait for AQIS inspection after fumigation the container had to sit in a quarantine warehouse and that costs $280 per day, plus transport to fumigation warehouse. $4000 extra per container.

[mairo]

So the fumigation was done here? When done overseas (e.g USA) and you have all documents ready it should be very fast from when it leaves the ship. Make sure the timber used for the crating and pallets is also the right treated type required for down under.

[loki42]

ahh I'll do that next time!

[loki42]

Everything is now in my factory. The AOI is larger than I expected (from the measurements in the manual...) and the stencil printer (MPM Accela) is fantastically giant. Just shockingly huge. It also weighs 3500 kg (same as the pick and place machines) so it wasn't easy to move into position. As a positive and negative it's got built in conveyors on either side so I now have a spare conveyor. I've been getting power connected today and it'll be finished tomorrow. I'll find out soon if it works! I think it'll be a while until I work out how it use it all.

[loki42]

So after 3 months of arranging, getting power and air connected, levelling, buying greases and oils, levelling more, cleaning a lot, replacing a few parts and learning a lot (slowly) about the machines they actually run.

The stencil printer (MPM Accela) was a bit of a nightmare to get working but it's running now. It still sometimes randomly doesn't have a working camera when you turn it on but restarting it fixes that and once running it runs all day fine. The results from the inspection and it in general are very good. I started with just dry under stencil wipe, then realised the vacuum options which is a huge improvement. The input air filter and one conveyor input sensor were the only thing that was actually broken on it, otherwise things just needed oiling and repositioning.

The Universal GC30 is working smoothly. One of the air cylinders that opens one of the nozzle changers leaks air so it'll need a new seal at some point. Board support pins weren't included and are vital for any thin or large boards. I suspect they are a good idea for all boards. I've made some sheet metal board supports on my press brake and they seem to be working fine but I might see how much the manufacturer ones are. Oh and width control doesn't work properly but I can live without it... it would be nice though.

The GX11 is working well for 1 of the heads (4 spindle high force) the 7 spindle head currently needs calibration I think. It complains about nozzle collision when it performs a nozzle change or when it picks up a part. I can survive without it though as I'm just using the GX11 for large parts and the 4 spindle head works fine for that. It'd be nice to get both heads working though.

Essemtec Ro300FC needed a few bits changed and replaced to work in Australia but it's now running smoothly.

I haven't set up the AOI yet, currently the Accela does solder paste inspection and I run the universal machines in NPI mode on the first board and check all the placements by hand for the first board and glance at later ones. I haven't got validation (PSV) setup yet because the docs were pretty confusing... if anyone knows how the bar code stuff is meant to work I'd love to know because currently it doesn't. I'm using gold feeders with PSV tabs.

Oh and if I was looking for a new machine I'd look for feeders that had proper sized handles...

[Kean]

@Loki42 Sounds awesome!

[tomgat]

After looking into the Essemtec RO300 / RO400 that's what I'm looking for as far as ovens. As far as stencil, DEK Horizon or MPN both with inspection.

Pick and place is still a bit more confusing, I'm only looking at used machines (major brands). I'm attempting to choose  between Yamaha, universal, samsung or Essemtec. I think the Essemtec is out to due to feeder prices but the others all look like good options.

I wouldnt overthink the PNP machine.  I have one of the cheapest PNP machines, (QiHe TVM-926S) which I absolutely love.  I has a conveyor, uses the clone yamaha cl feeders (pneumatic and electric), and rarely has any issues once properly calibrated.  Also, because the yamaha feeders are so cheap, it lets me build racks of preloaded components which saves an enormous amount of time when loading/unloading the machine for different projects.  Yes, the documentation is sparse, but the machine overall is so simple, its pretty easy to learn. 

[loki42]

Little update.  I've found a calibration kit so I can get the 7 spindle head working properly. It's $6500 used which pricey but I might get one in the future if I need the extra performance. 

[tomgat]

Little update.  I've found a calibration kit so I can get the 7 spindle head working properly. It's $6500 used which pricey but I might get one in the future if I need the extra performance.

Damn.  That is pretty pricey.  You have a bad ass machine, though. 

[loki42]

The new cal kits are insanely pricey like usd$50k for my machines. I'd like to just rent one...

[loki42]

We've now run a few different boards through the line. The 0.6mm small board was the most problematic, but nothing seemed to sag too much when going through the oven. The 0.6 mm really needed good board support though.

One of the Elmo servo controllers in the stencil printer is sometimes flaky and it'll drop off the CANopen network and then the machine will need to reinit. I'm not if I'll just deal with that being a bit annoying for the moment or if I'll replace the controller. 

I've been putting down nightmarish tiny BGAs with it (0201 size BGA...). Nozzle selection for most of the parts took a little while, especially for connectors etc but the component teaching mode works well. I'm confused about all the different component reject options though. I assume for higher price parts stuff things like a reject belt could be useful but it takes up a lot of feeder slots and I'm not sure if it would be worth it. I'm currently just running the 30  spindle head and the 4 spindle as the 7 spindle needs a calibration. Performance is fine so I'll just do that in the future if I need the extra slots / etc.

[tomgat]

One of the Elmo servo controllers in the stencil printer is sometimes flaky and it'll drop off the CANopen network and then the machine will need to reinit. I'm not if I'll just deal with that being a bit annoying for the moment or if I'll replace the controller. 

Before you replace it... I recently had a servo driver with a similar intermittent issue, but mine was Modbus.  In my case the issue was a broken solder joint on a through hole connector.  A little flux and a stab with the iron and its been running great ever since.

[tomgat]

I've been putting down nightmarish tiny BGAs with it (0201 size BGA...).

Do you use an SMT X-ray on your BGA reworks?  I am tempted to buy one later in the year to use for assisting with reworks, but I have had a mixed review from a friend who has an SMT X-ray system.

[loki42]

The Elmo controller actually appears to lose power, no lights on it at all.  The power cables appear fine and test okay with my multimeter but the connector in the unit could be faulty or something else in the power section. 

I'm not running x ray for the bga.  I'm actually only using the 4 ball TI ldo in BGA format because the previous sot 23 was out of stock everywhere.  It's too annoying though,  the part is only 0.6mm square so the holes in the stencil are tiny and it's impossible for me to keep them perfectly clean.  It's been a good test of the solder paste inspection though... I'm going to find a different ldo and avoid that part,  even though the price and performance is great the manufacturing effort is too high.

[tomgat]

I'm not running x ray for the bga.  I'm actually only using the 4 ball TI ldo in BGA format because the previous sot 23 was out of stock everywhere.  It's too annoying though,  the part is only 0.6mm square so the holes in the stencil are tiny and it's impossible for me to keep them perfectly clean.  It's been a good test of the solder paste inspection though... I'm going to find a different ldo and avoid that part,  even though the price and performance is great the manufacturing effort is too high.

0.6mm should be stenciling fine without blockage.  You might want to look at how the stencil was made.  Anytime you run BGAs, you have to have the stencil etch polished because of the laser burrs on the fine pitch are prone to sticking. 

[loki42]

I mean the whole part is 0.6mm square, not 0.6 pitch sorry.  The stencil openings are tiny.