Tronstol E1 experience

[lamabrew]

Sort of surprised nobody else has talked about this yet. This was purchased for prototype and small (like a dozen or two boards) builds.  I use local contract assembly places for bigger builds.  I've already made some obvious mistakes (like sending a nozzle across the floor because I put it in the auto-changer holder wrong) and probably will make more as I figure out this machine, but hopefully some of my experience will help others.  Or others out there that have one of these - my understanding their aren't many of us yet - can offer assistance.

I've recently uncrated it and started to set it up. It arrived a day after I got access to new office space so things will change in the background too. There was also a 3 alarm fire that closed the building for a while (nobody hurt, my things were OK).


The unit was purchased from Neoden USA (New Jersey). Tronstrol and Neoden are now two different companies but there's some things that seem to share commonality between them. Neoden USA sells both. They offer support and factoring in shipping/tariffs made it kind of a no-brainer to buy from them if you're in the US. The unit is in the wooden crate, the big box was the stand, and the other box was a FP2636 stencil solder printer (frameless).


The E1 was securely bolted to the shipping crate, the tool kit includes a socket wrench and other tools needed to get it off the crate base and mounted to the stand.  It is a 2 person job to move/lift the unit.  Getting it set up mostly consists of removing packing materials and tie downs used for shipment.  The only assembly needed is to bolt it to the stand (which is optional) and screw in the status indicator light and plug it in.  Took about 2 hours.


It has a touch screen and a keyboard & mouse can be connected, but IMHO much easier to VNC in to it, as well as then you can move files directly to it (it's a RPi running Linux) instead of the USB stick.  It only has WiFi available.


The manual that came with it was out of date (OTOH they should get points for including a printed manual) but Neoden USA was able to supply me with the latest manual.  The machine comes with a test board but no noob-level directions on the steps needed to actually get parts on to it.  There's example files on the machine that are for other machines which is confusing.  In the end the way to get it working was to start with a blank file, import the pick and place .CSV (which you might want to trim/make a new version with just one component for initial tests), and then go through each step and get all of the settings right.  This is where the support from Neoden USA was great, as the manual isn't quite complete to explain what exactly the settings are doing and/or how to figure out what they should be.  A screen share resolved a lot of things.  Probably took about 8 hours from first power up to getting parts to place.

Here's the machine in action:https://youtu.be/AkTbvYJ7PnM

Placement seems to be off a bit for different areas.


Placing one part at a time, the UI shows where it thinks it wants to place it (red box) and you can see where the part ends up is off. I've adjust some of the speeds, delays and accuracy settings but doesn't seem to change what's happening.



There's some more things it can do for calibration and that's what I'll work on next and report back when there's progress.  After that there's things that are (so far) unclear about the "materials" and "footprints" libraries and how to incorporate those in to workflow where one bank of feeders/parts is going to be permanent in the machine.

[lamabrew]

Update in case someone else is hitting these things. It has V 1.01 software on it (April 2022) and I never trust version one of anything.  So far, with two exceptions, the bugs have been tolerable and shouldn't be show stoppers.

The minor bugs:

• CN40 nozzle tolerance needed to be increased. Or maybe the size is wrong?  Leads to head errors if not fixed.
• A head error can lock up the software
• Selecting a head pickup test with a nozzle that doesn't map to the selected footprint causes nothing to happen vs. a warning message.
• Bug(s) in swapping columns after .CSV pick and place file import. Possible weird "they don't stay swapped next time the board file is opened" bug. Suspect if I give the columns the exact names the software wants, and in the exact order, this probably goes away. OTOH since there's the ability to assign/swap columns, make it work so I don't have to muck with the .CSV?
• Yellow status on light doesn't work. Just green or red.

The "that's odd/hope they can improve this" :

• Forward compensation. It turned out to be the cause of parts ending up skewed (when placed) as a results of the pickup position drifting (see example).  (Though this does not solve the parts being shifted when placed, see below.)  Set to 0.5 now for the parts I was working with, otherwise the tape slowly drifts and the pick up goes badly.  What concerns me is this seems to be a global setting for all parts using a specific footprint, and I'm not convinced this is ideal, i.e. maybe some 0603 need more forward compensation but maybe not all?
  
  Semi-related is when changing a reel it's easy to disturb adjacent components, meaning rechecking the alignments.
  
  Seems to me a pin feed system, to be reliable and efficient for use, needs to auto align on the sprocket holes before every pickup.

Big problems:

• Have not figured out the offset between where the machine thinks its placing the part and where it ends up.  I suspect when reflowed the parts will pull back correctly, but the machine should be more accurate than what I see. See the example of an 0603 not where it thinks it is.  There was a suggestion to adjust the place height but have not been able to try that yet.
• Removing the feeder assembly (for example to put in a new reel, etc) when the system is powered up bricks the software when you unplug the peeler controller cable.  If you power up the machine without the peeler(s) plugged in the software will run again, and let you know it doesn't see the unplugged side.  But powering up with everything plugged in just causes the controller software to hang more or less when the app opens.  Log file shows something being retried but no info as to what it means.  This problem is now in Tronstol's hands to resolve.  It also raises questions about how to put more parts on the machine during a run.

[SMTech]

... Interesting.

As a non "Chinese PnP" user my input may not be valid but, what should be happening with picking a part such as your 0603 is, you define a pick offset for that feeder after loading based on where the pick position seems to be (center of pocket not device in pocket). Subsequent picks will adjust the offset based on the vision results to keep the pick consistent and correct for feeder inaccuracy. A global package based offset is not to correct an inaccurate pick position, its purpose would normally be to pick a package off-center because of its symmetry e.g a DPAK.

Correctly defining the height of a component has a significant effect on accuracy, it changes the perceived dimensions of the device to camera and also means the device might meet the board sooner (or later) than the defined height might suggest. Many machines will still be moving in XY while lowering the nozzle, unless its placement parameters define otherwise. I have noticed on the examples I have seen of chinese PnP that how they handle component & place height can be somewhat odd & long winded.

[PCBprototyping]

Hi,

First, clean the position feedback ruler with alcohol and microfiber cloth as it gets dirty easily and it causes drift or failed initialization problems. To clean it, turn off the machine, move the head to back manually, spray the cloth with alcohol and clean the ruler in one gentle wipe from front to back. Do this regularly, if you're in a dusty environment or whenever you get a precision problems.

Second, do the calibration in settings:
- leave mark points with each head and needle and center them. Double sided transparent adhesive tape, painted with whiteboard marker will give you best results. Use CN040 nozzle to get as small circle as possible.
- set the nozzle exchanger centers
- place TQFP100 with supplied demo project and change the DCAM rotation angle accordingly, so the TQFP100 will be in line with pads. If you reuse the same TQFP100, always clean it as any dust affects the recognition and dust sticks to double-sided tape easily. Be sure that pins are not bent upwards as they will make the component look bigger. Recognition frame should be right on pin edges, there shouldn't be any gap.


Now you're ready to place the demo project. Fill in the 0201(preferably) or 0402 feeders and go to EDIT/material. Select the 0201 feeder, that you want to place and follow these steps to set the pickup and drag location. Order is VERY important:
- pull the tape so the pocket to be picked would be as far as possible from the edge but it doesn't expose the next component.
- click needle and set the center of the tape hole. Watch the tape to see, if it will move and click feed. Click feed again just to be sure dragging is repeatable. Needle doesn't need to be in center anymore, it just needs to be at repeatable position of the hole. These steps are very important as they will allow the hole and needle to self adjust.
Now, when feeding is repeatable, switch to pick and set the center of the pocket.
Now you can switch back to needle, click feed, switch back to pick and check if next pick is still in the center of the pocket.
This procedure by selecting needle+feed first and pick second is very reliable as it self adjusts the tape. Otherwise you will always have some offset as needle diameter is smaller than the hole and it needs some travel, before needle starts to pull the tape.
- place 0201 components in circle and TQFP100 and check positions. If placement is ok, you know that machine is well calibrated and precise.

Create a new project and import CSV. Be sure to be precise with angle, fiducial and first component settings. Set the pick height to just touch the component(use picking test function) and set the pick vacuum delay to 0.1s. Set the place height to i.e. 0.5 mm and place vacuum delay to 0.1s. Set all the speeds to 10, so the machine will move slowly and you will be able to see, what it's doing. Place the project and check the results. If they are not ok, use a slow motion camera on your phone and record the nozzle during pick up and placement. Check if nozzle goes down to far, spring shouldn't squeeze by more than 0.5 mm. If heights are ok, you haven't setup the project properly, because sample project was placed correctly.
Whenever you have problems, set all the speeds to minimun and use a slow motion camera, it will help you a lot. In most of the cases it's a user problem, machine is very precise, it can place 0201 easily.
Check Tronstol's youtube videos as they are very useful for programming and setup:
https://www.youtube.com/@sharingaboutsmttechnologya3424

Hope this helps.

[lamabrew]

Correctly defining the height of a component has a significant effect on accuracy, it changes the perceived dimensions of the device to camera and also means the device might meet the board sooner (or later) than the defined height might suggest. Many machines will still be moving in XY while lowering the nozzle, unless its placement parameters define otherwise. I have noticed on the examples I have seen of chinese PnP that how they handle component & place height can be somewhat odd & long winded.

I've now played with heights but that doesn't seem to be affecting the placement position on the board. I've also added delay but one of my next tests will be to slow everything down with really large values and see what, if anything changes.

[lamabrew]

Appreciate all of the good info.

First, clean the position feedback ruler with alcohol and microfiber cloth as it gets dirty easily and it causes drift or failed initialization problems.

It's a brand new machine so I'm not thinking that it should need cleaning yet?  It's in a relatively low dust environment and I keep the dust cover over it when not in use. I would be surprised if it's been powered up/uncovered for more than 24 hours yet.

Second, do the calibration in settings:
- leave mark points with each head and needle and center them.

(edited) The manual says it's The value is the mechanical position for leaving mark, but not how to use it to test or align something.  There's a video that explains it: https://youtu.be/vv7JnulX5uc

- place TQFP100 with supplied demo project and change the DCAM rotation angle accordingly, so the TQFP100 will be in line with pads.

I don't think my kit came with that, but I'll go look again.  Doesn't a package like that get checked with the UCAM?  Though for the parts I'm working with for testing they're all set to 3DSensor for alignment method.  I'm not quite clear yet how the data from that and the DCAM work to get the part on the board.

Now you're ready to place the demo project. Fill in the 0201(preferably) or 0402 feeders and go to EDIT/material.

Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but smallest I have sitting around is 0603s.  I'll have some 0201 and 0402 soon.

This procedure by selecting needle+feed first and pick second is very reliable as it self adjusts the tape. Otherwise you will always have some offset as needle diameter is smaller than the hole and it needs some travel, before needle starts to pull the tape.

I was doing it Pick and then Needle order as that's the way they're presented in the dialog window.  I'll try it the other way.  What Forward and Back Compensation values do you use?

Whenever you have problems, set all the speeds to minimun and use a slow motion camera, it will help you a lot.

Ah, hadn't considered that my cell can do decent slow motion. That should definitely help me understand what's going on.

Check Tronstol's youtube videos as they are very useful for programming and setup:

I do need to go back through them again.  I tend to be more of a RTFM person than watching videos.

Hope this helps.

Huge help!  You've given me a lot of things to explore/understand about the E1.  I did talk to another E1 user before I bought it and I'm confident it will do what I need; I'm bouncing between the E1 and other things so my progress comes in spurts.  The Neoden USA folks have been very helpful too.

The distraction of having bricked the software has been an impediment.  For now leaving the right bank unplugged allows the machine to run.

[PCBprototyping]

Hi,

trust me, clean the ruler, it can get greasy even on new machine. This is first thing you should do.

To leave the marks, follow the video, it is good. Just use double sided sticky tape, that you used for test placement and paint it with black marker. It will give you better mark and contrast to find the center.

Sample PCB is the one you used for the test placement and made the photos(0201 to 0603 in circles, TQFP100). Already prepared project is on USB stick and in the projects.
UCAM is for fiducials and pocket centering, for ICs, it will use DCAM, as they don't fit the laser flying vision.

0603 are also ok for test placement, but you will see better the machine precision, if you use 0201. A reel of 500 pcs is cheap, buy one.

Needle first and pocket second is the way to go, it's logical, because needle has smaller diameter than the hole. The difference between them will make a pick offset, if you set pocket center first.
Use default back and forward compensation, they don't matter that much. They are just to go back with the needle after the drag, so needle doesn't rub the walls of the holes and lifts the tape.

The videos will help you a lot, they are very informative and you get the point much quicker, than reading the manual.

Just follow the steps I described first to confirm the machine is calibrated and setup correctly. After that you can play with it and slo-mo camera to see, how it works and what matters.

Machine is extremelly precise, when setup correctly, I'm sure you will be satisfied.

[PCBprototyping]

I noticed your youtube slow motion video, place height is too low, it compresses the nozzle spring too much. Change it for approx. 1 mm, it should compress the spring up to 0.5 mm.
If nozzle is compressed too much, it might rotate the component, it's not so noticeable with adhesive tape as it has a lot of friction, but with solder paste, rotation can happen easily.
Pick and drag settings are ok.
Disable the double pick in the setting(feed twice), if you don't need the speed, because first component might flip over during drag. This is especially noticeable with 0201 and 0402 components.
If you need the max speed, keep feed twice on and set the needle height, so that it doesn't swing the tape during drag and release.

[lamabrew]

Thank you for looking things over. Definitely owe you a beer or 3. (We have a lot of good beer here in the Boston area)

I noticed your youtube slow motion video,

Well you beat me to it    It was my first attempt at the slow-motion and figured I would make a better one next week.  For those that are interested here it is: https://youtu.be/nVvK6frwWqk

place height is too low, it compresses the nozzle spring too much. Change it for approx. 1 mm, it should compress the spring up to 0.5 mm.
If nozzle is compressed too much, it might rotate the component, it's not so noticeable with adhesive tape as it has a lot of friction, but with solder paste, rotation can happen easily.

I'll experiment with that next.

Disable the double pick in the setting(feed twice), if you don't need the speed, because first component might flip over during drag. This is especially noticeable with 0201 and 0402 components.

When I first saw that I was like "oh, I didn't even know it was doing that"; learned a lot watching it in slow motion.

I went back to the start and rechecked calibration/alignments on everything. I lost what the original Head 1 settings were, but for Head 2 changed Y by +0.07mm. Forward compensation worked best at 0.25. With the default 0.2 the tape slowly drifted (after a dozen+ picks) to the point where the pickup was pretty wonky/not well centered on the head. Though the needle still managed to drag the tape so I'm not sure why that didn't manage to recenter it.

After doing that I got good results with the test board in terms of the offset problem I was seeing. the picture of the whole parts ring taken with the macro lens has some perspective shift, the 2nd picture shows the improvement better.  I expect I can adjust further but going to wait until I have the 0402s to try since that will make it more obvious. I need to get the CN30 nozzle for 0201, at the moment nothing is planned that would use 0201s but can see it being helpful to check alignments with (maybe put some 0201 and 0402 pads on the panel margin pieces).

After finishing the test I updated to the Feb 14th version that I just received, from looking at the updates list I suspect many of the small issues have been cleaned up.

Tronstol decided the right side peeler controller has failed and NeodenUSA will send a replacement. I'll post back once everything is put back together.

[PCBprototyping]

You can use CN040 for 0201 test placement, it will pick it.

I never had to change the forward compensation and I tried it on multiple machines. Have you cleaned the ruler? Maybe drift is from position feedback.

It's good that you got the latest SW, a lot has been improved in 1 year.

[PCBprototyping]

I saw your youtube video for E1 pick error on feeder 01. Seems like the measurement is not within tolerance, maybe it just needs small change from i.e. 0.1 to 0.15, can you send a picture of head measurements during production(like photo attached)?

[lamabrew]

I saw your youtube video for [snip]

I've been putting up videos to share with Neoden USA support while I was working on a strange problem.  I wasn't thinking anyone else would notice them.  You can ignore them, here's what was going on:

I got the replacement driver board for the right side peelers.  It had failed when I unplugged it while the machine was powered on, and Tronstol thinks that's what killed it. It's not to bad to change out the board, they recently posted a video of the process.

Unfortunately the new board did not solve the problem, the system reports no feeder connected.  I'm waiting to hear back from them as to what to do next, I assume it will be to replace whatever board is in the base part that connects to the peeler control board.

I had intended to see how things worked from the right side, etc.  Set that aside and put in a reel of 0201 and 0402 in the left bank's last two positions 26 & 27.

Pretty much nothing worked right either feeding or picking.  Finally realized the pickup head was mashing hard in to the parts, and the needle was doing the same, pushing the tape all the way down and sending parts flying, etc.  I could adjust the pick height, but needle height isn't a thing you can change per part.

Feeder assembly was securely clamped down and sitting correctly in the machine.

I'll spare the details but I finally noticed that while feeder assembly was all true and square, the pick area wasn't, it had a definite tilt to it.  Pulled the feed assembly out and looked more closely. Definitely tilted, which would explain all of the problems with the end 26/27 positions but why the first few acted Ok. (first two pictures).




But the assembly would not sit on the dovetail, even after loosening the screws.  Loosened the screws all the way, lifted off the upper assembly, and found the 'spare' screw just sitting there.


Removed that, put things back together, redid all the alignments, and all the feeders seem to be behaving.

Ran the test board with all resistor sizes and seemed to do OK.  Probably some more tweaking could dial in the 0201 parts a bit better but for now 0603 are the smallest sized parts (some 0.4 pitch QFNs for smallest pitch).  The place heights still need some work, the defaults definitely push down too hard.  If you bring up the place height adjustment in Materials the head is moved off the board.  I need to RTFM to figure that out, for now I just bumped up the board height a mm.

[lamabrew]

Should have added that the new software has an option to autoalign the pick position. Get the needle aligned first, get the pick close to where it should be, and hit the autoalign. If you don't get close on the pick position it might not pick the one you would expect, i.e. it will be too close to the left side to actually pick up the part. Maybe the top cover tape can be in the way just a bit, or the part isn't totally clear of the left side bracket.

Cuts the time in half to get the part lined up.  I'm hoping they do the same in a future release for needle position.

[lamabrew]

coming up on a week since the last update.  Some minor progress but a lot more unanswered questions:

1) failed right bank feeder (peeler).  New driver board didn't solve it.  Swapped left/right just to confirm the problem is not the peeler driver board but inside of the machine itself.  Waiting for confirmation that a new board of some sort is on its way.

Having to shut down the machine to remove the feeder bank to swap out a reel during a run is IMHO a big PITA.  Definitely lose a star or two in my review for that design decision.  Though I don't expect it to happen too often IRL as not expecting to do big runs.

It is not clear yet how to get back to where things were in a run when you need to shut down the machine.  An experiment for another day.

2) Can't find a way to export library info (material, footprints) to a spreadsheet.  Really need to be able to manipulate this data outside of the machine.  Likewise doesn't seem to be a way to import - longer term I was thinking of some scripts that could maintain/error check this info for when things are added/deleted.

This seems like a fundamental need so maybe I've missed something.

3) Doesn't seem possible to sort the display order of anything.  I would expect to click on a column header and give options for ascending or descending sort. Makes cross checking with other systems painful.  OTOH if there was a way to export to excel this wouldn't as painful.

4) Can't find a way to adjust DCAM/can't place any electrolytic caps because the camera can't see the part.

There's zero information on how to pick a part, have it presented to the DCAM, and then adjust things so it can figure out the part orientation.  See example.

5) Can't find a usable way to adjust a component's placement height other than making a slo-mo video of a part being placed, adjust, and repeat.  The Place adjustment mode just moves the head off the work area.  Need it to pick up a component and then go to the location it is to be placed and then allow adjustment while watching how much the head spring is getting compressed.

Another one of those basic things that makes me think I've missed something.

6) In the File->Material is a "synchronize" button that provides two options.  It is not explained what they do. It seems like "Synchronize to library" overwrites ALL components, not just the one that you're working on.  But maybe something else caused that.  OTOH "Synchronize from library" definitely doesn't do anything (that I could see from changing the component in the library, going back to the File, and selecting the option, and the change does not show).

7) Big status light on the top of the machine doesn't show yellow (from test mode).  Not a big deal, but given a major assembly error with the feeder bank somehow made it out the door, along with the blown peeler interface, every little "not working thing" makes me nervous that I have a lemon.

[PCBprototyping]

1) feeder bank: Normally, you can unplug it and plug it back and it will work. No need to shutdown the machine.

Resuming the project: Remember the ID of last placed component before you turn off the machine and go to this position the next day and select launch(scroll the table to the right). It will start from this component.

2) Library export: go to library and click export at bottom left corner. It will export it to SQL db file. Use DBbrowser to open the file, switch tab from database structure to browse data and select the desired table from the dropdown list. Go to file/export to export the table to excel
To import it, select update in the same bottom left corner of library tab.

3) Sort: not possible at the moment. Only sort available is in the edit/component/advanced/sort, where it will optimize the placement order by nozzle type.

4) Camera can see the part, but there is a dust in the corner(see the photo attached - red circle), which algorithm recognized as component, so it extended the frame to that dot. Dim your office lights and be sure no direct sunlight shines on the camera area and test again. If no difference, change the recognition algorithm in library/footprint/alignment method/modify camera from treshold to foerstner or vice versa. If no success, go to setting/system options and reduce the ROI to a bit(for 100 i.e.) until the camera recgnition area is not touching the dust(you can check the ROI size in tools/DCAM/DCAM test/algorithm/roi/test). This will reduce the recognition area, but will still fit 26x26 mm components.

Parts need to be in the tray or tape in the right direction, camera itself won't recognize the orientation, only the rotation and center of component. 0° angle means that pin 1 side is on the left for ICs and passives are horizontal with pin 1 on the left. This is defined by EIA 481 standard, general rule is pin 1 is the closest pin to the tape hole and pin 1 side of the IC is on the left of the tray.

5) Placement height: Define the right PCB thickness, which will affect the placing height. Generally, you don't need to change placing height(keep it at 0) as it will automatically take into account the component height. 0 will compress the spring for about 1 mm, if you need less compression, change place height to 0.5 i.e. manually, no need to use place height function.
This video is for big capacitor placement, you can see, that it recognizes it well and they don't change the place height. If 0 would mean PCB surface, it would slam the capacitor to the board, but it doesn't as it takes into account the component height from the library.



6) Synchronize to library will write all current project parameters to library and synchronize from library will update the current project parameters. I tried it with changing the accuracy and it works for me. Use synchronize whenever you make some major changes to specific component, so it keeps this value the next time you import a new csv.

7) Not sure about the status light, maybe the crimp contact is not fully inserted into the connector.

[lamabrew]

Thank you again for the help!

1) feeder bank: Normally, you can unplug it and plug it back and it will work. No need to shutdown the machine.

I'm just repeating what Tronstol told me: The electronics failed because I unplugged the peeler cable while the machine was powered on.  Given ongoing time/effort to sort this one out I will always shut the machine off until they say they fixed whatever caused this.  OTOH interesting that you never smoked a system doing that.

2) Library export: go to library and click export at bottom left corner. It will export it to SQL db file. Use DBbrowser to open the file, switch tab from database structure to browse data and select the desired table from the dropdown list. Go to file/export to export the table to excel
To import it, select update in the same bottom left corner of library tab.

In hindsight I should have tried that, just didn't occur to me it was a SQL file (the manual doesn't offer any explanation).

[snip] If no success, go to setting/system options and reduce the ROI to a bit(for 100 i.e.)

Since it's not documented:  do you know what are the units and/or is there a way to see what the ROI is as some sort of overlay perhaps?

5) Placement height: Define the right PCB thickness, which will affect the placing height.

I had some parts that were getting pushed down hard enough to flex the board.  I'm not sure why as the footprint info seemed correct.  It seemed to be picking them fine and I assumed it did the same set of calcs.  And yet it seemed to be off until I set the board height 2x it's actual thickness.

There's no documentation on how the machine does its calculations. If you pull up the pick height knob it goes to the part being picked. I would have expected that the knob to set the place height for the component would actually do it with a component at the proper location on the PCB. Otherwise seems to be no point in having that adjustment exposed the way they did.

6) Synchronize to library will write all current project parameters to library

To make sure I'm clear on this:  Synchronize to the library overwrites EVERY component, not just the one currently being edited?

and synchronize from library will update the current project parameters. I tried it with changing the accuracy and it works for me. Use synchronize whenever you make some major changes to specific component, so it keeps this value the next time you import a new csv.

I changed the pick location assignment in the library, did the synchronize from the library, and the component didn't change.

7) Not sure about the status light, maybe the crimp contact is not fully inserted into the connector.

I've monkeyed around with it and the connector on the light's pigtail seems OK. Given you indicated it should work, maybe it's disconnected inside the machine.

I'll try out the your ideas tomorrow and see what happens.

[PCBprototyping]

1) ROI: check the ROI size in tools/DCAM/DCAM test/algorithm/roi/test. It will create red circle, the circle should be smaller than the dust area. If it's not, change the diameter in system settings(600 is typical size, reduce it by 50, units are pixels, I believe).

2) resuming the project next day: I checked, it will save the current state, if you stop the placement and ask you the next time you enter the work mode, if you would like to resume.

3) Synchronize: yes, it will synchronize all components. I works for me in both directions.

[lamabrew]

3) Synchronize: yes, it will synchronize all components. I works for me in both directions.

That seems like a really bad idea in both directions:

• current project -> Library: I might have temporarily changed something as a test and not set it back/forgot I changed it.
  
• Library -> current project: any custom tweaks for a specific board (like maybe a footprint error in that rev) will get clobbered when some other part is updated. Unless you remember to make the change manually in the Library and the project.

If it was going to overwrite (either direction) I would expect an ECO-like list to show each entry/parameter that's different and ask me to OK it. Kind of like going back and forth between schematic and layout during design.

I get that the software is what it is, but I'm trying to understand Why it is the way it is, particularly when it seems be opposite of what I would expect/my preconceived notions.

Or stated a bit differently, to me this seem like a bug. 

[PCBprototyping]

Synchronizing to and from library is useful as sometimes, when you change i.e. pick location in project, you want it to be system wide available, not just in the project. If you don't update it to library, you will need to change this pick loaction each time, you import new csv.

[lamabrew]

I definitely want to be able to update to/from the library as the alternative is manually changing both places, it's the "all components without warning/verification" that worries me.

[lamabrew]

Made some progress on the DCAM and the 'lytic caps, which I will update on later. For the initial testing I was always using the left end of the strip. Now I see that pickup fails as you move down the strip. So far I don't see why.

I've tried the 3 bigger nozzles, the 400 seemed to produce the best results so far.

Here's some successes:

https://youtu.be/Q0hl0r0Ho40

https://youtu.be/5GcOR1buxBQ

and some fails:

https://youtu.be/VXKMT3NtWOM

https://youtu.be/O02bLGjrijg

Generally it always seems to work on the left end of the strip and fails more often (like 50%) on the right end.

[PCBprototyping]

Seems nozzle and capacitor are not parallel or pick location is slightly off center and nozzle sucks some air. Try to set the pick location for  the right side of the tape, this will eliminate the pick center problem. SW does not recalculate the angle of the tape, so you need to be aligned with the axis and if you're not, pick location is not perfect, which becomes important with the nozzle size almost the same as component size.
If readjusting the pick center does not help, place the magnetic PCB holder on this exact location and put the capacitor on it. If it picks it up now, tape is the problem as it's lower on the left side. If magnetic support did not help, lower the head with this nozzle down to magnetic holder and check if it's parallel with the holder.
You can also use smaller nozzle and rubber cap to increase the vacuum and compensate the non-parallelness. Not good solution for fine pitch ICs as component won't be parallel on camera, but capacitor should be fine.

[lamabrew]

Thanks, I'll try those things tomorrow.  I did go along the tape and checked the "anchor" position (from the File->Material dialog) and it seemed to stay centered. 

Going through the manual again, I think maybe I understand how you're supposed to pick up a component and have it hold it over the DCAM.  If I'm reading this right I need to position the UCAM manually and then do the DCAM part.  I did try with the UCAM over a part but selected from the File->Component, I think the doc is saying it only can  be done from Tools->UCAM test?  The images here were done with a screen capture during the few seconds that the software displays the DCAM image.

DCAM and placing the 'lytics:
Limited/unreliable success is what I would my current state.  I did clean the DCAM glass as well as reduced ROI radius by 100, though I think I misread your directions on getting the visual representation so will try that again tomorrow.

What I do see is the DCAM and head don't seem to be centered. I'm basing it on this capture, which I assume the red mark should be centered?


I didn't try changing things yet as I wanted to go back through the manual to see if there's clear directions about how this is supposed to be set - and I did not find a description. 

The fact that when it could place the cap it did it in the right spot makes me think the machine is aligned correctly and the red hatch is for something else - the ROI X and Y are not 0 and maybe that's what the red hatch is? I did not change the ROI X,Y from what the machine came with.

There are pictures attached of both success and fails for the DCAM.  I'm pretty sure the little smudge that it sometimes locks on to on the right is the needle, though I'm not sure why sometimes it's more obvious than others.  The smudge only appears when the head is over the DCAM so that's why  I think it's the needle versus a reflection.  Turning off all the lights and putting a blanket over the machine seemed to darken it but that's not going to be practical for running the machine.

Tomorrow I'm going to take a black sharpie to the needle and see what happens.

The other problem I had was even when it got the bounding rectangle correct it would still fail a  pick test (i.e. red box).  I finally realized the bounding box isn't coming up square because the algorithm is using the pins to define the sides instead of the actual sides of the little plastic carrier.  I bumped up the size to accommodate that.

The pins can have some slop to them and I've seen the bounding box come up angled as a result.

While I'm closer than yesterday, it's not usable yet.  Hopefully tomorrow some of things I came up with to try will yield positive results.

On the failed feeder/peeler interface: DHL shows the replacement board is on its way.

[MR]

Hi,

I'm just curious can you take some more photos of the pick and place head? I'd be interested to see what modules they use.

- Venturi Module?
- Pneumatic Valve?

- How thick are the pneumatic pipes?

[lamabrew]

I'm just curious can you take some more photos of the pick and place head? I'd be interested to see what modules they use.

Not sure you can tell a lot from the pictures. Eyeballing it the OD of the tubing looks like 5mm.