TVM802AX Pick/Place machine boot problem

[eedesigner]

This is my very first post on EEVblog - it's a pleasure to join you folks!
I just got a TVM802AX PNP machine with the built-in computer and I am having trouble getting it to boot properly. The PNP machine has a VGA monitor port and 4 USB ports accessible on the side. It requires a monitor, keyboard, and mouse to be plugged in. A FLASH drive came with the machine. I thought I would be getting a normal Windows 7 computer as implied by the manufacturer, QiHe, but that is not the case, or at least not entirely. It looks like the machine is set up to boot and run software located on a FLASH drive as evidenced by the picture below showing the boot sequence. I am ASSUMING the computer is set up to:

1) Boot from the FLASH drive included with the machine.
2) Start Windows from an internal 64GB SSD. Assumption based on the start-up screen shown in the picture below showing the internal SSD.
2) Execute the specific machine software (SurfaceMount.exe) located on the FLASH drive.

Maybe that doesn't make sense - I am not all that familiar with PC boot sequences. Bottom line, what happens is:

1) The pre-boot screen appears for a couple seconds.
2) Windows starts up.
3) A Windows screen appears as shown in the picture below, where it sits forever.

If I hit CTRL+ALT+DEL the screen goes black. It eventually times out after a couple minutes and returns to the same Windows screen as before. If I press CTRL+ALT+DEL, then press RETURN twice, the same Windows screen appears, bypassing the timeout. At no point does it EVER begin executing any machine software. This same sequence happens regardless of whether the FLASH drive is inserted or not. I can see that the FLASH drive is supposed to be bootable as evidenced by the presence of a Master Boot Record shown in the picture below.

So, there are a couple issues here. First of all, is there something I am missing here? Am I not doing something correctly? Second, the way this machine is set up from the factory is just plain silly. I would much rather have a normal Windows 7 integrated computer where I can manually launch the SurfaceMount.exe software to control the machine without having to mess around with booting from a FLASH drive, and where I can run lightweight networking software to get CAD-generated files into the machine without having to sneaker-net them back and forth on yet another FLASH drive.

I am really looking forward to using this machine. It looks like it is well built and will soon become another valuable tool in my shop. For now, however, it's just a very large and heavy paperweight! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My immediate plan is to capture a full image of the SSD as it exists today, then load a standard Windows 7 version. The down side is that I have to disassemble the machine to do that. The SurfaceMount.exe software does appear to run on my desktop machine after complaining about the fact that the machine is not connected. If anyone else is interested in purchasing one of these PNP machines I STRONGLY suggest you do NOT order one with an integrated computer. Lesson learned.

[mon2]

 Hi. Using Google, found this machine. Looks like a very nice product.

Did you purchase this equipment from QIHE? They are listed on AliExpress.

Suggest highly that you install the AliExpress app on your phone and chat them or whomever you bought this from tonight. They may ask you to join via wechat. Then their staff should be able to assist you.

Sounds like your windows image may be corrupt. You are stuck in the windows splash page. You can try to press the F8 key (?) during windows boot to boot into safe mode.

The windows Safe mode is a mode that bypasses the loading of low level device drivers.

Does safe mode allow you to boot to the desktop?

The executable is most likely inside the startup folder so that when windows does boot, it will launch the executable.

Do this support quickly because the Chinese New year holiday will start soon and most factories will close for about 3 weeks.

We have a Yamaha smt line which dos based but design products for the pc industry so unable to assist on this specific equipment.

Do post your updates.

[eedesigner]

I bought this QiHe machine from AliExpress and it shipped right away. It got hung up in customs because they wanted an unexpected pound of flesh, but aside from that it got here amazingly fast. It was delayed in customs for about three days.

I am impressed with the machine. It appears to be well built and I am anxious to start using it. I have been in touch with QiHe via email which has been less than helpful. So far we have confirmed that yes, I have tried different monitors, different mouse, different USB ports. We have not yet gotten to the point where there is a problem with the machine. I'm an old dog, and wechat is a new trick, but it may come to that.

I tried many times hitting F8 during boot and I was surprised to see that it has no effect. Are there any other ways to get into safe mode? The <ESC> key does work to get into the system setup screen, but that's about it.

I concur with your assessment of a corrupted SSD load. I took a peek inside the PPM machine and found a ITX-B530 motherboard with a MSATA SSD. I suppose I can pull out the SSD and use a MSATA to SATA adapter to capture an ISO image. I can do whatever I want with the OS after that.

While I was inside the machine I unplugged the motherboard ethernet and plugged it into my laptop instead. I copied the folder from the FLASH drive containing SurfaceMount.exe to my Windows 10 laptop and found that it runs just fine. I am able to control the machine as advertised, and that really wet my appetite! They use a video-to-USB grabber adapter for the upper camera. I unplugged the USB cable connected to that capture gadget and plugged it into my laptop instead. I got it working using the drivers provided on the FLASH drive. So now I have machine control and upper camera capability. For those that are not familiar with the TVM802, the upper camera looks top-down through the pick/place nozzle to the PCB so that you can precisely align the nozzle to the PCB. What a NICE feature! Everything works now except the lower camera.

At this point I am trying to figure out how the bottom-up camera gets connected. The standard setup for the non-integrated computer PNP machine (TVM802 A or B without the 'X' on the end) has you plug in two USB cables, one for each camera, and an ethernet cable. The integrated computer may do things a little differently. At first glance it looks like they run both camera images into a video switch, then run a single video output to the USB grabber so that the motherboard uses just one USB port for both cameras. Don't quote me on this as I have not yet verified it. Once I get the second camera port hooked to the laptop then at I'm on my way with a fully working machine and I can take care of the internal computer in a more leisurely fashion.

I am probably wrong about my assumption that the machine boots from the FLASH drive. QiHe sent me a video showing me how to right-click in the windows screen and select a lower resolution in case my full-HD monitor couldn't handle the VGA bandwidth provided by the PNP machine. I'll spare you the irony of such a video sent to a skilled EE other than to say that their video shows a fully booted Windows screen with application icons, a taskbar, and everything else that my frozen machine does not have. I can see that it is a normal Windows 7 install like every other. It is likely that it can be run with a WiFi stick and does not boot from the FLASH drive. That being said, I do intend to get that part going, but all in good time. Right now it appears I am very close to using the laptop instead.

So now I am ordering two video grabbers, which are amazingly inexpensive. I will hook one up to the lower camera 2-wire analog output and hook the other up to the upper camera output, just like they have it now, only each camera will have its output going into two grabbers instead of one. It is doubtful that the cameras will have loading issues by doing that. Having this redundant hardware will allow me to leave the internal hookups intact. I will then remove the internal ethernet cable and connect a short ethernet extension cable to the ITX-B530 motherboard, and another short extension to the STM32-bassed embedded processor board where I connected my laptop. I will make a new side panel just like the original one, but with extra cutouts for the two new USB grabbers and two new ethernet jacks. Operation from the internal computer can be performed by connecting a small ethernet shorting cable between the two new external ethernet jacks and running the machine as a normal standalone 'X' version. Alternatively, I can use any other laptop or PC workstation by plugging it into the new external STM32 ethernet jack and connecting two USB cables to the two new USB grabbers. That's the plan. I'll let you know how it works out.

In the mean time I will work with QiHe to get the internal motherboard working. It's okay if that takes a long time if I can operate the machine with my laptop.

[mon2]

It is not your screen resolution - if the refresh rate for the video out was higher than what your tube / monitor can handle, then you would see a 'scrambled' out of sync video. It is not that.

Be stern with them and inform them that you are chatting about the product on a public forum. It is their mandatory responsibility to get you operational. You should not have to 'hack with it'.

Almost ready to do a flying round house kick to this vendor, Bolo style. Makes me angry to hear about such issues - after they have your $$$.

[eedesigner]

I agree with the resolution issue. I knew that was not the problem before I finished reading their response. This is not my first time with these kinds of problems. Unfortunately, I know I am taking a chance when I buy tools of this kind from China. It is a calculated risk. I rely on product evaluation reviews before buying products, and I rely on forums such as this to resolve issues. I hope things change in the future, but these days when I buy China products I assume the documentation will be indecipherable, and I will be on my own to fix anything that goes wrong. I know that. I bought it anyway.

In the case of this TVM802 PNP machine, I wouldn't be too quick to talk smack about QiHe. Yes, I am having problems, but this is not necessarily the kind of problem that would arise from a poor quality design, poor workmanship, or compromised quality control. I am still impressed with this machine even after opening it up and looking around inside, and I don't say that about very many things. Maybe I would be singing a different tune if I were not having any luck with the laptop, but that appears to be working out well. QiHe is responding, it just may take a while before we converge on that fact that there is a problem.

I will continue this thread as I go along, and I'll throw in some pictures later to describe what I am doing to hack this thing together. I am pretty sure I will be pleased when it is done, and it will be more versatile than it was when it first arrived.

[48X24X48X]

Kim (QiHe owner) does sometimes come in this forum. I think a lot of the problem in this series of machine stems from buying them from reseller instead of QiHe directly. Contact them directly and best using WeChat if you want on the spot support.

[qihe_kim]

Firstly,I am very sorry for this problem with the machine. Please confirm my reply to your email. If none of the methods I mentioned can solve this problem, we will send you the ssd card for replacement

[eedesigner]

@48X24X48X - Thanks for the info. I thought I saw Kim replying to another post regarding a QiHe product.

Kim: Thanks for joining the discussion. I did get your email yesterday regarding the SSD replacement, which I appreciate. My concern at this point is that this is a brand new machine that was dead on arrival and I am needing to use it right away. If you could please provide a private link where I can download a ISO image of the SSD contents then I can get up and running right away. Otherwise I have to wait until after Chinese New Year as suggested in the email, and I must also wait for the SSD to arrive here from China. It would likely be well over another month from now before I can start using the machine.

I removed the MSATA SSD and and placed it in a normal SATA adapter. I am able to read and write files on the SSD from my Windows 10 PC. Windows 10 can mount a ISO image directly and treat it like a read-only DVD.  Using a mounted ISO I might be able to repair the Windows installation that I have by copying critical files from the ISO to the SSD. Doing so should bypass the need to do a complete Windows re-install.

I can also overwrite the entire contents of the SSD with the new ISO image, but whether or not I need the Windows Key Code depends on how the ISO was created. If the ISO is a native Windows 7 install then I will need the Windows Key. If the ISO was created from a Windows 7 bootable SSD I will not need the key. If anyone knows of a better way to do this, or if what I am saying is wrong, then PLEASE jump in and clarify.

Thanks for your help.

[eedesigner]

First things first, I need to clarify some misinformation from my above post:
 
2) I assumed that my laptop would require two USB cables, one for each camera, just like the other models do without the embedded computer. This is not the case. Only one USB video connection is required. The video switching between the two cameras is done internally.
2) No additional video capture hardware is required. Connections to an external PC come from re-routing internal cables and nothing more.
3) The top downward-looking camera is mounted behind the two nozzles. I initially thought that the downward-looking camera looked through a nozzle port by removing the nozzle. That was silly.
4) The bottom upward-looking camera was actually working when I first tried it. All I saw before was a black screen in the camera view. I assumed it was not working because I thought I needed a second USB camera port. Placing something above the camera window shows that camera IS working, it's just really dark. Reflective surfaces such as IC pins show up nicely.

I did manage to bypass the internal computer by intercepting one video USB port and one Ethernet port as follows:

1) I removed the side panel and unscrewed the existing USB and Ethernet connectors. I simply tucked the internal computer connectors inside the case for now.
2) I unplugged the embedded processor Ethernet port and replaced it with a short panel-mount Ethernet extension cable. That connector is located inside the unit near the back panel as shown in the first picture below. I routed that extension cable through the side panel for now.
3) I unplugged the USB cable from the internal computer shown in the second picture. I plugged a short USB extension cable onto the USB cable. I purchased a USB-A to USB-B panel mount feedthrough adapter and plugged the USB extension cable into the A side. I routed the cable and the adapter outside the side panel for now.

The ends of both cables are shown in the third picture. When I get the new SSD from QiHe then I will get the internal computer working and post again with the finished side panel and instructions for how to use either the internal PC or an external PC. For now, I have a Windows 10 laptop connected with one Ethernet cable and one USB cable and it works great!

So far I am quite happy with this machine's performance. The only issue I ran into is with small, thin, plastic tape. The slightest bit of tape motion on the reel-side of the feeder causes the part to vibrate out of the tape once the protective cover is removed. The bumps on the bottom of the plastic tape were rubbing against the sharp edge of the main aluminum base when the tape was advanced, and this vibration caused the part to sometimes jump out of its home position before the nozzle could get to it. This problem was easily solved by taping a piece of index card paper onto the aluminum edge where the tape bumps were rubbing so they were no longer dragging over a sharp edge.

I have made 10 boards so far and found that this machine is reliable enough press start and then walk away from it. The placements were accurate, even with 0402 chip caps and resistors. I have to run the machine at 50% speed until I get it on a more stable workbench. All I need to do now is wait until I get the new SSD from QiHe so I can boot the internal PC, finish up the modifications, and get this machine properly situated in my shop.

[eedesigner]

Update:
I received a replacement SSD from QiHe. Shipping had to wait until after Chinese New Year, but once it was shipped it got here pretty fast via DHL. Thank you QeHi for the expedited shipping! Unfortunately the new SSD did not fix the problem. The machine still freezes exactly the same way as it did before.

After backing up both SS drives I tried loading a known good copy of Windows XP from an external CD ROM. The TVM802 machine booted from the CD just fine and began its usual install until the familiar Blue Screen of Death showed up and immediately terminated the install with fatal errors. At that point I figured there might be a more fundamental problem with the hardware.

I did what I should have done earlier: I dusted off an old desktop PC, unplugged the hard drive, loaded the MSATA drive I received from QiHe onto a SATA adapter and turned it on. It booted completely in less than 30-seconds and had desktop folders available  for running the TVM802 machine. Nice!

It is pretty clear to me that the real problem lies with the motherboard unless anyone else can come up with another explanation. I offered to pay for the replacement SSD + shipping because there does not appear to be anything wrong with the SSD, and because I can use it in the old PC that just booted from it. It's blazing fast compared to the HDD that was in that machine before! I have requested a replacement motherboard so I can get this project completed. Please let me know if anyone can think of another test to run to verify that the motherboard is or is not the problem.

In the mean time I have been using my Windows 10 laptop to run the machine by bypassing the integrated computer as explained earlier. I am still quite happy with the machine's performance after making dozens of boards with it. I found that the 0402 parts need a good, sticky, solder-paste coverage to place properly. I also found that 0402 resistors in PLASTIC tape are hopeless on this machine. They do not come out of the tape very easily with the 501 or 502 nozzles. Maybe a better vacuum is required, I'm not sure. For now I just use paper tape for 0402 parts.

Until next time...

[eedesigner]

Update:
The problem has been fixed, and once again I must admit it was not what I thought it was. Qihe sent me a replacement SSD, and later sent a replacement motherboard when that didn't work. The hardware was sent with few questions asked, so I appreciate their attempts to get the problem resolved. Since the problem was not hardware related I offered to pay for the additional goods they sent me because there is no problems with any of it, and because I will be using the second motherboard to control a CNC mill. I was not presented with a bill, so kudos to Qihe for that too!

The problem turned out to be a CMOS configuration setting. When the machine booted it looked like it was frozen at the Windows splash screen as there was no mouse response or anything else to get past the splash screen. After months of screwing around I finally ended up moving the mouse far to the right instead of around in circles when I eventually saw the mouse pointer. The screen I was looking at all this time was screen #2 of a dual-screen setup. There was no way to EVER see screen #1 without turning off the LVDS video in the CMOS setting. The LVDS video port is made for laptop-type built in LCD screens and it is the default for viewing screen #1. Turn that port off in the configuration menu if you want to see screen #1 on the VGA or HDMI ports.

Two things really stood out to me. When I alerted Qihe of the CMOS setting problem, their response was to say that they've seen this in the past. Really? After all of these problem descriptions, after sending new hardware to try, they just now remember seeing this problem? Second, I would argue that the machines are shipped from the factory without ever being testing because they never would have seen screen #1 with the LVDS setting engaged as it was. The second motherboard also arrived with the LVDS setting enabled. You decide for yourself.

I'm glad I took initially took time to bypass the internal computer. I would have been staring at a boat anchor for moths if I had not done that. After getting acquainted with the machine's finicky behavior I was able to reliably build boards with lots of 0402 components and other larger parts like pushbuttons and large super-caps. My biggest issues are now with the software. It has potential to be really good, but it may always have that rushed, unfinished look and feel. For example, I ended up leaving the cover off of the nozzle assembly because that makes it much easier to push the nozzles down by hand to check the nozzle pickup and placement locations instead of going through the cumbersome menus and limitations of raising and lowering the nozzles. I still have to open the machine up one more time to cut the wire on that loud, screeching alarm because there is no other way to change or disable it. The software list is too long to itemize all the annoyances. It took a while to convert the Windows 7 to English, but I now have a functional machine that I am pretty happy with. It does not perform miracles, but it doesn't cost much either.