temporarily storing cleaned steel?

[coppercone2]

So sometimes if you want to clean up rust, or chemically remove millscale with the cheapest method (vinegar soak), you can face work interruptions.
You remove it from the bath, and wash it with some scrubbing to get a clean surface on the part. But then you are forced to start work immediately.  And you often do some grinding and stuff at this point.



If you dry the part, it seems to store OK in a vacuum sealed bag, but its alot of effort. I did this before with uber-pain-in-the-ass stuff like gratings that need to be painted (for vent covers, made from old rusty cleaned steel perforation)

I was wondering about storing it under water. I thought distilled water, or possibly boiled distilled water (or otherwise degassed) might work.


Of course oil works, but if you plan on welding, soldering, painting or brazing the part, it adds extra cleaning steps.


Did anyone find a method that works well? I thought perhaps also some kind of rust inhibitor can work, dissolved in water. Like a very mild acid at low concentration?


I feel like work-time gets out of hand for restorations because you need to kinda do a big process in piece meal. Especially if there is alot of parts that you might wanna get ready and use at the same time. I like to keep everything ready on the same 'step'. With rust it seems I have to repeat alot of stuff instead of getting things lined up and ready.

[Andy Watson]

Water is not going to work unless you can remove the disolved oxygen. It's the oxygen that's the problem.

Also, depends on what you want to do with the metal afterwards. Here's Dan Gelbert recommending a soduium hydroxide treatment or nickel plating.
https://youtu.be/OuZjjActWmQ?t=830

I think the only real solution is to not take a break between prep-work and finishing.

[coppercone2]

Well I was thinking what if you degass the water. I have a nitrogen tank in the shop. Not sure how much it would take.


Its really lame to have to go through everything in one shot.

Is there some chinese 5$ oxygen meter gadget I can experiment on dissolved oxygen with?


Or some chemical test to look for dissolved oxygen. Like pH paper or indicator. so you can take a sample and drip somehting in it to look for o2


Or some reactant to eat the oxygen up. It would get nasty.. but what about just iron filings? I thought you can put em in like a cloth bag, same idea as oxygen absorber for food products... maybe you can just throw some oxygen absorbers in the water and wait a while?



I feel like it always turns into a long day where I end up eating frozen food when I take a weekend to do some restoration. Getting tired of it. I know alot of people switch to abrasive blasters for this reason, but I was hoping there is some clever way... the containment on all the debris is excellent with the liquid processes.

[Stray Electron]

  They make a product named LPS-3 that's made to do exactly this. It sprays on as a liquid but dries to a waxy finish and it's VERY effective at preventing rust yet it cleans off easily with a solvent and it doesn't affect paintability the way that silicone sprays do.  It's rather expensive ($17 per can the last time that I looked) but most larger hardware and Home Depot stores carry it.   It works so well that when I bought my new F-150 in 2011 I bought about ten cans of it and I thoroughly coated everything underneath and inside and outside of the frame and in all of the hidden areas like the door jams.  I still don't have a spec of rust even though I live in a very wet and very humid area and my truck lives outside year around.

[coppercone2]

Is that thinned cosmoline?

Anyway, that is a solution but the water thing intrigues me because its solvent less, other then before final paint.

I mean for maybe a few days, weeks top.


What  I was thinking now is to get some iron filings and to put them in a filter housing, so there is a small pump that slowly circulates water over the filings, to get rid of oxygen. Then it could be simply connected to any basin of compatible size and left to keep the water free from oxygen. 


Some kind of oxygen test would be very useful because I happen to have a fine chemistry fit meant exactly for degassing water. I just need to determine minimum nitrogen flow rate because if its alot then its a expensive idea.... if it only needs a trickle then its sounding economical

[Stray Electron]

  No, it's not cosmoline. Cosmoline is a BITCH to remove! I spent enough time in the US Mil to be able to tell you that with certainty!  This seems to be some kind of light wax but it severs the same purpose more or less.

  IMO you're not going to find any kind of water based product that will do what you want. Water is already the problem (even humidity in the air) and any kind of water based product won't last very long.  That said, there are water soluble oils that are used in machining that do leave an oily coating that will protect the metal for a short time and I know that some of them are easily removable so that the object can be painted later.  But you would need to talk to a machinery supplier who knows more about that. 

  The other thing that might work would be to take your cleaned steel and coat it with pure Carnauba Wax. That's how they used to protect machined steel surfaces, like the ways on lathes, that could not be painted.  The problem today is getting pure, unpolluted Carnuaba Wax. Carnauba is expensive and most sellers dilute it with other ingredients.  Also a lot of the carnauba sold today has a grinding compound added so that it can be used as a one-step cleaner/polish.  Also I don't know how hard it is to remove the carnauba (and fillers) clean enough that the surface can be painted.  I have an old metal can of pure Carnauba Wax that was made (IIRC) by S.C. Johnson and Company and was sold for polishing/protecting high quality furniture.  I don't if you can still buy that or not.

  Today a lot of gun collectors use a product called Renaissance Wax to protect the metal of their high grade guns but that stuff is expensive! And I don't know how well it protects or how hard it is to remove. 

[Stray Electron]

  OH, the other product that would almost certainly work is something called Dipseal.  It's plastic (or wax?) that you heat in double boiler until it's molten and then you dip your item in it and completely coat it. After it cools it leaves a thick waxy/plasticy coating that is completely imperious to water, air, humility or anything else! Stuff stored in that will last, literally, for decades!  Machinery and steel item manufacturers often coat their new item in it. Besides stopping rust it's also thick enough the it protects the item from nicks and scratches and will protect sharp edges.  But it's soft enough that you can easily cut through it with a knife and it peels off cleanly.  Again I don't know what kind of cleaning you would need to do before you paint the item but for unpainted items usually you can use the item as-is. A LOT of machined steel items are stored and shipped with this coating.  It's probably too much trouble for you but for people that make, sell, store a lot of bare steel items it's a great choice.   Look it up. 

[coppercone2]

that sounds like the thing they put on sharp edges too to keep them from chipping on machine tools

[Stray Electron]

  It sounds like you might be looking to preserve some pretty large items. Something that might work at least for a short time is plain old automotive antifreeze! Antifreeze made for use in steel engines contains both soluble oil (to lubricate the water pump) and anti-oxidizers (to prevent rust in the cooling system).  Even used anti-freeze would probably work so if you know someone in a repair shop you could get that for free.   

   I know that automotive antifreeze won't harm paint but I don't know how thoroughly an item would need to be cleaned before it could be painted.  Also antifreeze is intended to be used in a sealed system that is not being constantly exposed to fresh air so you would need to seal your item and the antifreeze or the anti-oxidizers probably be consumed fairly quickly.  "Quickly" being a very relative term since antifreeze last for YEARS in it's intended usage.

[Smokey]

take your pick... https://www.crcindustries.com/corrosion-inhibitors/

(Not sure why they include cleaners in the corrosion-inhibitor category.. )

[coppercone2]

lol yeah, because with water its no issue to put it in 5 gal bucket for instance. Like say a big rusty vise, unweidly clamps and other shit that would require strange containers


I thought if you degass a bucket of water it might hold in a bucket for a while. 5-gal anti freeze is not THAT bad but unfortunately I would have concerns about using said anti freeze for anything else

and one of the biggest benefits of water would be.. 100% disposable. It would just be iron contaminated water, no different then a cast iron drain pipe. 5 gal of antifreeze spilling is a situation. The corrosion inhibitor additives might be hit or miss. I assume they try to make some that its OK if it goes in the sewer


properly processing a big vise is like a fucking big time problem lol. Or a big wood lathe chuck


With water even going up to 30 gal might not big that big a issue, for some really big thing that is delapitated and needs mucho labor



I noticed a big benefit of the vinegar soak is that the bristle wheel throws way less sharp bristles. it seems to throw em when you hit a rust patch. If its just some slight residue its almost pleasant to use it. I am so tired of getting hit with the wire wheel strands from mill scale. The die grinder black abrasive hard foam works well but IMO uncomfortable compared to bench wheel



I did a big magnetic broom sweep of the area for bristles after a few years and it was almost comedy to pick so much of them up.

[mzzj]

Well I was thinking what if you degass the water. I have a nitrogen tank in the shop. Not sure how much it would take.


Its really lame to have to go through everything in one shot.

Is there some chinese 5$ oxygen meter gadget I can experiment on dissolved oxygen with?


Or some chemical test to look for dissolved oxygen. Like pH paper or indicator. so you can take a sample and drip somehting in it to look for o2


Or some reactant to eat the oxygen up. It would get nasty.. but what about just iron filings? I thought you can put em in like a cloth bag, same idea as oxygen absorber for food products... maybe you can just throw some oxygen absorbers in the water and wait a while?



I feel like it always turns into a long day where I end up eating frozen food when I take a weekend to do some restoration. Getting tired of it. I know alot of people switch to abrasive blasters for this reason, but I was hoping there is some clever way... the containment on all the debris is excellent with the liquid processes.

If you are willing to go all the trouble of degassed water you migth as well store the parts in a nitrogen purged box.

One of the easiest ways is probably to store under low humidity. IIRC steel is safe when relative humidity is below 40%rh  Old fridge with 60w lightbulb inside probably has so low relative humidity that rust is not an issue.

You could also try very diluted Naoh wash after acid pickle. Drain parts after Naoh wash but do not rinse.

[coppercone2]

https://www.youtube.com/@Shane_at_SteelImage/videos

[David Hess]

They make a product named LPS-3 that's made to do exactly this.

LPS-3 is great for long term protection, but for temporarily preserving steel after cleaning, I wipe it down with cheap mineral spirits like I would do with machine tools.