Author Topic: Repair worklog : Old rusty HP 3458A  (Read 172885 times)

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Offline Jwalling

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2015, 03:14:38 pm »
Is that mu metal in the picture with the transformer by any chance?

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Offline OldSchoolTechCorner

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2015, 03:34:00 pm »
Transformer on eBay for $199 with matching part #. Would message them, to see if they will accept lower, worth a shot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-3458A-9100-4715-Transformer-Power-/281271495323?hash=item417d166a9b
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 03:37:34 pm by OldSchoolTechCorner »
 

Offline klaus11

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2015, 08:36:51 pm »
8.5 digit calibration costs only 1500 USD  :scared:, It will be nice to see it work
HP3458A, HP3245a, Keithley 2000, Fluke 87V, Rigol DP832, TEK TDS5052B, HP33120A
 

Offline BFX

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2015, 11:33:55 pm »
TiN: nice unit and good luck to repair :-+ I love your repair threads  8)

 

Offline TiN

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2015, 12:40:42 am »
Transformer on eBay for $199 with matching part #. Would message them, to see if they will accept lower, worth a shot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-3458A-9100-4715-Transformer-Power-/281271495323?hash=item417d166a9b
I would prefer not to risk of used xfrmr. Will stick to new one from Keysight, as still need some other parts, like pusrods, caps, feet , etc.
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Online Theboel

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2015, 12:44:04 pm »
Transformer on eBay for $199 with matching part #. Would message them, to see if they will accept lower, worth a shot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-3458A-9100-4715-Transformer-Power-/281271495323?hash=item417d166a9b
I would prefer not to risk of used xfrmr. Will stick to new one from Keysight, as still need some other parts, like pusrods, caps, feet , etc.

Just curios because You don't have the reference board. Are You plan to build your own or buy a new one ?
honestly I want to see You build the reference board with "your magic solder"  :-+
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2015, 03:12:13 pm »
Bought one from ebay already. :)

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Offline Smith

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2015, 06:57:47 pm »
Just played around with an original HP one today. Verry impressive machine! I really like the keys and the display. Not exactly the most user friendly interface though, and all the six red binding posts wheren't verry helpful either.
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Online Theboel

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2015, 11:33:37 am »
Bought one from ebay already. :)

What I hates about buy a meteorology meter like this is the cost of calibration, agilent ask about USD 2800 for golden calibration include Shipping and handling> ( I am in Indonesia and the calibration must be done in Singapore)  |O
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2015, 02:25:48 pm »
Bought one from ebay already. :)

What I hates about buy a meteorology meter like this is the cost of calibration, agilent ask about USD 2800 for golden calibration include Shipping and handling> ( I am in Indonesia and the calibration must be done in Singapore)  |O

Short of access to a josephson junction array I think TiN has enough gear to do a pretty good cal all by himself. Indeed - maybe Project KX will be ready in time?  ;)
 

Online Dr. Frank

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2015, 08:39:22 pm »

What I hates about buy a meteorology meter like this is the cost of calibration, agilent ask about USD 2800 for golden calibration include Shipping and handling> ( I am in Indonesia and the calibration must be done in Singapore)  |O

Sorry, it's metrology.
The other one's about the weather..
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Online Dr. Frank

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2015, 08:41:56 pm »

Short of access to a josephson junction array I think TiN has enough gear to do a pretty good cal all by himself. Indeed - maybe Project KX will be ready in time?  ;)

Nope.
All of his Keithleys are playin' in a minor league.

You need 10V and 10kOhm and means for verification on sub ppm level.

Frank
 

Offline OldSchoolTechCorner

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2015, 04:39:43 am »
Ended up just winning a HP 3458A, same seller. Hopefully I actually get the reference board.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2015, 07:06:15 am »
Ended up just winning a HP 3458A, same seller. Hopefully I actually get the reference board.
Blimey, for that price I hope you get the ref board too! Keep us all posted on your restoration!  :-+

When repaired it looks like getting them calibrated will be interesting... (I mean DIY rather than sending them to Key$ight)
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2015, 10:57:25 am »
Mm, "DIY" calibration of 8.5 gear is somewhat mythical. My personal plan on this is:

A. Clean all dirt, replace broken parts (so far transformer, pair of protection zeners in inguard PSU, dead NVRAM, missing knobs+levers)
B. Install missing LTZ1000 reference (already one of those ebay units on its way).
C. Carefully test and repair analog section (if needed). This item is a real deal, and if unobtanium stuff dead - can quickly make whole project worthless.
D. If all analog stuff works - assembly meter and ACAL it to my K2002 readings on 10v and 10k. This will let me check overall function, drift, noise and such.
E. In some distant future , if everything works really well - send it to Keysight for cal.

OldSchoolTechCorner

Ouch, 1.1k? Kinda steep to my liking, hope you know what to expect. Photos clearly show missing ref board. But its not the reference you should worry about (they are up for sale for little over 100$ like cakes on ebay now) but that paper sticker "Defective" on transformer. You looking at 337$ replacement if u choose to get new from HP.

I would not mind at all if you post you progress in this very same thread, as its same topic, same seller, same stripped parts!
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Online Dr. Frank

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2015, 11:18:24 am »

E. In some distant future , if everything works really well - send it to Keysight for cal.


I propose to exchange 7.14V ... 10V LTZ reference(s) and 10KOhm (Vishay) with some other volt-nuts, instead.
Maybe a ww. ring comparison.

PS: Ah yes, after the 10V /10k calibration relative to your 2002, the complete verification of all ranges of your 3458A against your 2002 is important, to check, if everything is ok.

Frank
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2015, 11:22:41 am »
Ring comparison across multiple voltnuts around the globe is interesting but it need to be planned and executed well. It should be properly designed box for that kinda thing.

And it does not help with AC ranges, as 3458A still needs external cal for that, if I understood manual correctly.

Testing every function on every range is my plan, yes.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:24:39 am by TiN »
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Offline Macbeth

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2015, 11:41:57 am »
Ring comparison across multiple voltnuts around the globe is interesting but it need to be planned and executed well. It should be properly designed box for that kinda thing.
Yes, that is the sort of thing I meant as a DIY vs Key$ight cal. Of course if you want to sell the restored meter on then a proper traceable cal will be worthwhile, but then I've read it costs $2800!!! I've also read that if the whole provenance on the meter including repairs is not carried out by Keysight then they will not issue a cal for it?
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2015, 02:45:10 pm »
Btw, in case someone got FALSE impression that buying dead 3458A and fixing it would be cheap, here are expenses on my unit so far:

.

Add calibration (let's say $2660), and you looking into healthy 4.4K$, for which you can get working and likely even calibrated 3458A from second-market.
Also you can see I cut few corners here and there with parts from eBay, as if you go with all original parts from Keysight, it will be much more (Reference board alone is 700$).

« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 02:47:39 pm by TiN »
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Offline OldSchoolTechCorner

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2015, 03:39:29 pm »
These are far from being cheap to be repaired. My first keithley 2015 I did a while ago, spend about $400 in parts alone, not including sending it off for calibration and then the long lead times to wait for the parts. Still was worth it, as looks like new now and works great, wish I did a video of that one, that was before really was into doing video restorations.

Just bought another one be working on soon, just to do a new line of videos of test gear repairs and teardown, as videos before were of reel to reels and audio gear restorations. The HP going to be a very interesting project. Use to big restorations like this, even good at getting of rust and corrosion making frame and chassis look like new. Just have to see condition of PCB boards and components, hopefully not corroded, as has it way of working it way into the package destroying the components. This didn't look as bad, but will soon find out. 

Next project going to be getting a new larger work bench put together and the second keithley 2015 first done, since I order most the parts already, did order the kit to convert rack mount to bench meter and quite a few other parts. Will do a complete teardown, repair and rebuilt. The good news is VFD is nice and bright and has newer firmware. The HP will be later on, has have to study service manual some more while waiting for it to arrive and then will see what it needs and what broken and start pricing out parts. Transformer will more likely need to be replace, just going to buy a new one from Keysight, rather then fuss with trying to rewind it. Have to see what other issues it has first and overall condition. On the HP figured I have to put another $700 to 1k into it in parts before calibration.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 03:49:28 pm by OldSchoolTechCorner »
 

Offline TiN

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2015, 03:43:43 pm »
Cool. From KI stuff I have just two 2001's and 2000 waiting to finish up repairs. I usually don't bother with exterior parts , unless they really busted or/and affect functionality.
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Offline macboy

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2015, 04:38:57 pm »
Btw, in case someone got FALSE impression that buying dead 3458A and fixing it would be cheap, here are expenses on my unit so far:

.

Add calibration (let's say $2660), and you looking into healthy 4.4K$, for which you can get working and likely even calibrated 3458A from second-market.
Also you can see I cut few corners here and there with parts from eBay, as if you go with all original parts from Keysight, it will be much more (Reference board alone is 700$).

Keysight's one-time repair is $ 2823 USD. This includes post-repair calibration and adjustment.
For that fixed price they will completely restore the unit to factory spec. I have even heard of users getting new front panels, with updated company name (your old HP 3458A becomes a Keysight 3458A). Of course the unit would need to be complete, so you'd need to install a ref board first.
It sounds like a lot, but you do not know where the end of the cost is for your at home repair, or even if it will ever work after all that expense.
 

Offline OldSchoolTechCorner

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2015, 04:58:20 pm »
Btw, in case someone got FALSE impression that buying dead 3458A and fixing it would be cheap, here are expenses on my unit so far:

.

Add calibration (let's say $2660), and you looking into healthy 4.4K$, for which you can get working and likely even calibrated 3458A from second-market.
Also you can see I cut few corners here and there with parts from eBay, as if you go with all original parts from Keysight, it will be much more (Reference board alone is 700$).

Keysight's one-time repair is $ 2823 USD. This includes post-repair calibration and adjustment.
For that fixed price they will completely restore the unit to factory spec. I have even heard of users getting new front panels, with updated company name (your old HP 3458A becomes a Keysight 3458A). Of course the unit would need to be complete, so you'd need to install a ref board first.
It sounds like a lot, but you do not know where the end of the cost is for your at home repair, or even if it will ever work after all that expense.

That reasonable, may go that route and get the reference board of eBay, as much cheaper for the HP and still be under the 5k mark. Have to get it and see shape and missing parts first and then make a few phone calls.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 05:08:13 pm by OldSchoolTechCorner »
 

Offline macboy

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2015, 05:30:33 pm »
Keysight's one-time repair is $ 2823 USD. This includes post-repair calibration and adjustment.
For that fixed price they will completely restore the unit to factory spec. I have even heard of users getting new front panels, with updated company name (your old HP 3458A becomes a Keysight 3458A). Of course the unit would need to be complete, so you'd need to install a ref board first.
It sounds like a lot, but you do not know where the end of the cost is for your at home repair, or even if it will ever work after all that expense.

That reasonable, may go that route and get the main parts like transformer and reference board on the HP and still be under the 5k mark. Have to get it and see shape and missing parts first and then make a few phone calls.
You should verify whether calibration is indeed included. Their description of their repair services says calibration/adjustment is included, but they doesn't specifically mention it for this service (it might be an exception or simply an omission). Personally I would have a hard time believing that they would return the instrument in working condition but utterly unable to take meaningful measurements.
 

Offline MadTux

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Re: Repair : Old rusty HP 3458A
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2015, 06:58:49 pm »
Interesting compilation or repair costs.

Somewhat confirms my theory that hardcore repair of (old) equipment like this 3458A is only economic if you can score several units really cheap and sacrifice one or two units to repair the rest. Or if you know the equipment well enough to be sure that the fault is certainly repairable (like the majority of "dead" 3456A where you only need to change PSU caps) . As soon as you start buying parts from ebay or even from OEM, you are usually loosing money.

If you are too cheap to buy parts (like me) than you end up with a pile of working gear and another pile that has some broken unobtanium inside that is waiting for a cheap, broken parts transplant unit from ebay.
 


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