Author Topic: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE  (Read 20078 times)

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Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2016, 12:52:48 am »
I am using IPE 2.26 on win7. First time I loaded it I thought it was broken. It takes half a minute before I get confirmation that I even opened the program.

So I take it 3.2 is not necessarily faster.

What was "broke" was that MPLAB 8 isn't cross platform. So while they buggered a few pooches in the process, they didn't try to fix something that wasn't broken by making X. (They just didn't make it that great; and worse, they dropped support/development of 8 partway through the process of integrating PK3). Most of the PK3 issues seem to be created by X/IPE. The device works perfectly with 8, out of the box AFAIK, except for the faulty/unfinished implementation of P2G in 8. If you use Linux or Max, X is probably fantastic.

If they had finished PK3 implementation in 8 and/or when they finish polishing X, PK3 would possibly be fine, depending on your point of view/OS. As it stands, there are potential issues with PK3 across the board, because you have to use buggy X/IPE in order to use all the features of the PK3, but the PK3 might not even work with X without some backdoor tweaking requiring 8. Maybe someone will finally explain how to get a PK3 working without using 8. AFAIK for now, you might in fact need to use 8 in order to make a given PK3 work with X, go figure. (That, or send back your PK3 for a new one that hopefully has the right FW suite pre-installed).

All that said, the improvements of PK3 vs PK2 are pretty minimal* and don't extend much beyond IDE integration (basically auto-flash after a recompile, and ability to read/modify/write registers within IDE, which is a minimal improvement. The former is nice, but the latter still requires opening a different window; PK2 standalone is just as handy, there, plus more handy for some uses), much faster flash speed of 32 bit devices, and the debugger. They could continue to update the device list for the PK2, if they weren't dicks. I think Richard Head was never fired and instead got a promotion. It might be a good idea if PK3 and X/IPE were polished. But forcing users who might otherwise be fine without a debugger to use PK3 over PK2 for new devices is putting a fat ugly foot forward. It's forcing people to switch, so that if they don't gag over the bloat of X and the undocumented (or poorly documented) hoops to get the PK3 to work, they will simply fall in love with the integration with the IDE, the debugger, and the faster flashing (of higher end devices; it is NOT significantly faster with 8 bit devices, at all; in fact, sometimes it's slower).

*IPE has a lot of cool features for production use (theoretically). You can limit the number of flashes. It will track the number of good and failed flash attempts. You can tag devices with a random or sequential serial number using one of more register locations, apparently. I say apparently, because 20 minutes of fiddling, and I can't figure out how to get that to work, and I gave up because it takes approximately 3-4 times as long to flash an 8 bit chip on my machine using IPE + PK3, anway, than it does when using PK3 with 8 or in P2G mode or compared to a PK2 - which these all take approximately the same time. So I wouldn't use IPE for batch programming, anyway. At least not on my i5 Win7 machine with the PK3. It is hideously slow, and the delay is not just in the software/interface, which is miserable. Even when the device finally starts to flash/verify, that takes much longer than normal.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 02:29:25 am by KL27x »
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 02:14:29 am »
Quote
they will simply fall in love with the integration with the IDE...

Or they would just say "f@#$ it" and move on, without Microchip.

Microchip really need to take a harder look at its software team - they are worse than incompetent.
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Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2016, 04:26:08 am »
The software bugs can be forgiven. It's a dev tool, not an iPod. I wouldn't put much of the blame on the hardware/software engineers.

It's the unfinished development of 8.9 right in the middle of PK3 integration and the lack of continued device file support of PK2 which is particularly abominable, IMO. 

It doesn't even make sense from a $$ perspective. Microchip can't make squat on the PK3 between the cost of the hardware and the many clones that appeared overnight. It seems like they are forcing people to use the PK3 because they are so proud of it they think people will love it. Like if you made an "improved" product, and you wanted people to immediately drop the old product, so they could see how good this new one is... but they forgot to make this one at least as good (reliable) as the product it's replacing, first. It's like they actually think the PK3 will increase the X IDE user base. Maybe in the long haul, it will. In its current state, it might be hurting more than helping.

I love Microchip datasheets for their structure and detail and completeness. It they could hire someone to write up some documentation on the ins and outs and errata of the PK3, that would be great. A bug report/version history would be extremely helpful. A moderator on their website sticky-ing user issues would be extremely helpful. But no, they pretend the PK3 is solid gold. The user manual doesn't even mention fw suite revisions or problem with auto-update between firmware families.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 05:15:21 am by KL27x »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2016, 05:24:50 am »
Wasted most of today trying to get this working, no luck.
David2 tried too, also no luck.
I have some rant video shot, but was hoping for a conclusion.
New PICkit3 on order...
 

Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2016, 05:35:59 am »
Your first post:
Quote
Can't download new firmware or program.
I've never used it with MPLABX or IPE before, just the old stuff.

And on the IPE output screen, the last thing it says before failing to connect is:

"locating firmware files"

This suggests you might be missing some files?

Did you try updating manually in 8? (using the jam file in the jar file out of x?)

if you open mplab 8
programmers > select programmer > Pickit 3

Then
programmers > settings > configuration > manual download

This opens the PK3 folder (which by default in Win is in program files (x86) > microchip > mplab ide > pickit 3 folder)

And you should see at least one file "PK3FW_01.xx.xx" And if you click on it, it should download onto the pk3.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 05:51:27 am by KL27x »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2016, 05:47:23 am »
Did you try updating manually in 8? (using the jam file in the jar file out of x?)

Yes, no joy.
 

Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2016, 05:50:40 am »
Did you leave the JAR file intact?

Maybe you unpacked it, and X is looking for the JAR?

I'm fishing. Well, sorry that didn't work. The PK3 is apparently like an onion. Of fail.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2016, 06:08:13 am »
MPLAB8 error message:


Although at one point it said the firmware was the latest version. Now it says nothing. I have video evidence.
Still doesn't work
 

Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2016, 06:47:03 am »
That looks totally $%$#ed. I would wait for the new one to arrive, lol.

But if I wasn't already on the verge of tears and/or trashing my lab, I might try reflashing the pic with your pk2 using the full image.

And FWIW, I posted this just now in the microchip forum. This is my definitive, instructions-your-mother-could-follow method for updating the fw suite:
Quote
I just discovered you can (hopefully) also do this in IPE, by
settings > uncheck "auto download firmware"
settings > manual download firmware
 
This opens up
program files (x86)> microchip > mplab X > mplab_ipe > lib > ext >pickit3.jar >
 
And in this jar should be at least one PK3FW_01.xx.xx.jam. Double click the highest one. I suspect yours should be 01.39.xx.
 
If IPE fails to be able to download this properly, go into this folder manually. Copy the pickit3.jar. Unzip it. And put the contents into program files (x86) > microchip > mplab 8.x > mplab ide > pickit 3. Then try it in MPLAB 8.

Programmer > select programmer > pickit 3
Programmer > settings > configuration > manual download
Double click the PK3FW_01.xx.xx.jam you imported, which should be the higest number.


 
If that fails, the helpfile says this about failure of PK3 to communicate with PC
1. Try manual downloading firmware (you will have already done this)
2. Try unplugging and replugging the device and trying again. (you have already done this, although try it 3-4 times after doing the manual update, because sometimes the autoupdate system takes several tries to complete. If you get any different error messages before it fails, keep repeating and pay attention to the output window messages. Don't give up until you get the same message, repeatedly.)
3.
The version of MPLAB IDE installed may be incorrect for the version of firmware loaded on the PICkit 3 programmer/debugger. (this really isn't a solution, so the grammar/syntax of the help me isn't the greatest)

If those 3 fail. the only solution listed is:

Corrupted Install­ation Actions
The problem is most likely caused by a incomplete or corrupted installation of MPLAB IDE.
1.
Uninstall all versions of MPLAB IDE from the PC.

2.
Reinstall the desired MPLAB IDE version.

3.
If the problem persists contact Microchip.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 07:14:29 am by KL27x »
 

Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2016, 06:52:35 am »
And in case maybe the more recent versions of fw suite are incompatible with 8, I know that 01.34.11 that comes with X 2.26 is compatible with 8.9, at least with the devices I use.

BTW, if anyone has ever gotten P2G to function using MPLAB 8, please let me know what version of MPLAB 8 and what fw suite you are using.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 07:00:01 am by KL27x »
 

Offline diyaudio

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2016, 07:33:10 am »
Get an ICD3

Yep, same thing.

You own an ICD3 but prefer the PK3 ?


 :o Try another PC  so you can fully isolate the issue.


« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 07:36:17 am by diyaudio »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2016, 08:22:43 am »
GOT IT!  :-+
After David2 and myself fighing most of today, it was a tad embaressing  :-[
The PICkit3 I had would only talk to 3.10 of the old PICkit3 programming software.
We both mistakenly downloaded version 1 from the Microchip website as it was the first item and seemed the obvious one



I had forgotten I used to use v3.1 and that was the firmware that would have been last programmed into it.

Anyway, after using that software it identified the old version and told us the PICkit was indeed not in MPLAB mode. Once switched back we were able to upload the latest firmware compatible with MPLABX. The version programmed into it was obviously not compatible with either MPLAB8 or MPLABX IDE or the MPLABX IPE, or the v1 PICkit3 programming software  |O

Also, you can simply change the PICkit mode by holding down the button when plugging it into USB!  |O
Doing that might have also saved us a ton of heartache.
Video coming soon, but I'll likely edit out probably half an hour of footage of use trying every combination possible.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 10:31:34 am by EEVblog »
 

Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2016, 08:46:02 am »
Technically, the standalone for PK3 is an unofficial pet project of one of the Microchip dev team members. It was never officially supported, i.e. use at your own risk. And it has also not received update for newer devices. So maybe take it easy on the rant, Dave! Still plenty of fodder left for PK3 rant, round two, I'd think. :-DD
 
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2016, 08:48:03 am »
GOT IT!  :-+
After David2 and myself fighing most of today, it was a tad embaressing  :-[

Not at all. These kinds of time wasting problems should be highlighted. As I mentioned earlier, hardware debuggers and the software interfaces to them are consistently the single most unreliable part of most cross development toolchains.

FWIW, a couple of days ago I had a similar problem on a Microchip Curiosity board, the new one that's aimed fairly and squarely at the first timer. This has a cut down PK3 onboard debugger, only supporting low voltage programming mode. It turned out that in some circumstances such as when you change the chip, the board firmware switches to high voltage programming mode but it does not have the hardware to support it. You have to re-apply debugger settings (that all look correct anyway) to make it work. Only when I'd probed the debugger interface on the scope did it dawn upon what was happening. That was about three hours of my life I'll never get back. Imagine being new to this, precisely those people this board is aimed at. What a crock!

I could write an extensive textbook on how shit hardware debuggers are packed with anecdotes, but I think we've all had experiences like this one way or another.
 

Online KL27x

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2016, 08:57:25 am »
Who's Dave2? Has Dave figured out a way to clone himself?

I've seen Dave's mini-me in his vids, but he doesn't look old enough to be fixing these types of things, yet.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2016, 09:39:03 am »
Who's Dave2? Has Dave figured out a way to clone himself?

I've seen Dave's mini-me in his vids, but he doesn't look old enough to be fixing these types of things, yet.

Even at my older age, I have not loose a lot of my determination, but I did have more determination at Dave2's age.

Age has nothing to do with it. Drive and enthusiasm does, provided you have a solid background of course.

There are plenty of smart and capable young players.

 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2016, 10:02:32 am »
One further thought. The PK3 is Full Speed USB, if you are running this off a USB 2.0 hub with a single transaction translator but multiple full speed devices on the same hub, this can cause a bandwidth problem as the maximum aggregate bandwidth for all FS devices even on an HS USB 2.0 hub with single TT is 12Mbps. Simplest thing is to put it on its own USB 2.0 hub which will have its own TT. This can sometimes fix weird problems with USB FS devices.

I've occasionally seen issues running PK3 on a Sparkfun hub cable
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Offline adam1213

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2016, 10:30:19 am »
Dave - if you haven't already, it might be worth contacting Microchip.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2016, 11:44:09 am »
40 minute video of this drama rendering now.
It was painful.
Could have been much easier if we had seen the correct version of old PICkit3 software to download  :palm:
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2016, 12:33:16 pm »
Quote
auto-flash after a recompile,

Pickit2 does that - a great feature;

Quote
and ability to read/modify/write registers within IDE,

I think pickit2 does that as well but don't quote me on that.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2016, 01:15:46 pm »
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2016, 01:39:18 pm »
I'm seeing a lot of failed downloads from Microchip as well....
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2016, 01:44:59 pm »
Target device (0x0) means it has failed to talk to the device, so your read is almost certainly garbage
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Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2016, 02:25:38 pm »
At the same time I was struggling to try to make work a  pickit3 clone from itead studio.

After seeing lots of posts  on the eevblog that one should never use clones, I  gave up.
But seeing that Dave had so many problems with a genuine pickit3, I decided to look at it again.

I  was communicating with the pickit3, but not  to the chip.

I then had finally the solution with  this informative  site
http://www.sinistercircuits.com/pickit3_clone01.php#ss_InternalPowerIDE

My problem was that  the IC  was not powered properly. I had to set up MPLAB IPE   to power the IC, with this very hidden
power command by clicking on the
Power Target Circuit from Tool box.

On the IDE, there is the same problem, and the setting is even more hidden.

Run ->  Set project configuration -> customize
the click on pickit3, then the power option is available.

As for Dave, all comments  on this thread were unrelated to my actual problem, but it  still help  me to find
the real issue I had.


Now everything is working well.
 

Offline diyaudio

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Re: PICkit 3 Won't Talk To MPLABX IPE
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2016, 03:41:48 pm »
Dave.

Just for the record, MPLABX is so much better than MPLAB, I think they should be given some praise, their baseline hardware needs to be improved, I think once you devin straight for a month you going to want that ICD3.... cause writing a miserly 20k or debugging cannot be taken seriously with a PK3, I have no idea why designed it like that, but the rant energy should have been directed at how unusable a PICKIT is for medium to large projects!! really! 

I still have no freaking idea why code breakpoints randomly hit or even skip, hopefully these experiences makes it to double rant status.   :rant:
 


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