STM32 Roadmap?

[MT]

Building cruise missiles and such, you don't need anything beyond a chinese ripoff of a 32F407

Friend of mine has done some analysis of various STM32 clones/fakes.  Trust me, you really don't ever need one of those.
Your competitors OTOH...

As long you dont provide evidence you will sound like a used car salesman. Clones is all right, fakes not.

[Debugging]

IYDM, Taking this thread a bit back on track.

Check out Charbax Embedded world W2023 live with 45 minutes of STM coverage with Roman as the presenter (in excellent English :-))



They are giving out free C0 boards.

1. C0 line (follow up on G)
2. H5 series fully pin to pin compatible with F4 line. Secure boot/TEE, Azure & AWS IoT previsioning with a key and certificate at STM Factory level
3. U5 now scalable to 4MB flash and 2.5MB SRAM for graphics framebuffer and NeoChrome GPU accelerator (upgrade from ChromArt)
4. STM32WB Matter demo
5. Contactless USB2 using 60GHZ ST60
6. STM32MP13 single core Ethercat demo's. ST will release realtime OS later this year
7. Overview  of GUI solution for STM products
8.Developer packages now on github STM32 MCU developers zone.
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/stm32-mcu-developer-zone.html
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/stm32-mcu-developer-zone/embedded-software.html
9. STLINKV3PWR
10. AI Demo (NanoEdgeAIStudio) TOF STM32F4 CubeAI
11. TSC1614 I3C H5 demo
12. IMU motion sensor LSM16OIS (RISC) LS6VS16X game controller (could have the numbers wrong here)
13. Motor anomaly behavior detection demo

Note: Renesas showed off the first board with the M85 + Helium. STM had nothing of this, even the N6 was announced last year.
Hope the N6 will have Dual USB HIGH SPEED OTG or high speed dual role USB-C (like on the H5),  no external ULPI, Ethernet and RGB LCD and larger SDRAM than U5
See M85 versus older MCU's: https://developer.arm.com/documentation/102787/latest
https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/st-to-launch-its-first-neural-microcontroller-with-npu/

P.S I am not affiliated with ST, just got nothing better to do than writing a summary.

and oh yeah, can sign up for free C0 course and get a board (Guess that only applies in Europe and USA, leaving out the poor chip consumer  elsewhere as usual)

[JPortici]

5. Contactless USB2 using 60GHZ ST60

Woah. Reminding myself to put money in ST stocks
now i'm regretting not ditching work to go to EW

[coppice]

5. Contactless USB2 using 60GHZ ST60

Woah. Reminding myself to put money in ST stocks
now i'm regretting not ditching work to go to EW

People have had working demos of that for maybe 15 years, but it never seems to reach the market.

[harerod]

@Debugging, thanks for your post.

One of my clients has pilfered the stash of F407's, which we bought at horrendous cost from some Chinese purveyer of rare merchandise. It was their call, of course - and the other project was importanter at that time.
Anticipating the next production run of the product that stash was for, I look for "STM32 ethernet" at Digikey. No other restrictions. I don't see much that could replace an F407 with 1MB FLASH.
So it is great to hear about all those new plans from ST. However, the indicator most germane to me is availability at distros, like Digikey or Farnell.

Well, the show must go on. The other day I sent a new product into production, replacing STM32/M0 with ATtiny. That being said - a bunch of M0's seem to have become readily available, in the meantime, for the moment. Worse than the stockmarket.

[peter-h]

What is the value of HS USB?

Unless you are building a hard disk type of product, and then (if on ETH) you will want to run linux on it. Maybe USB-only drives can use that.

The 407 is a great chip for all-round stuff.

There is a real skill (and luck) in picking a good long term bet. LM358, anybody? I got 25 years (plus 5-10 more from shady dealers, until the chinese fakes started) with the H8/323. ST will probably run the 407 for a similar total time, and there are pin and software compatible others e.g. 417 437 etc. And then there are chinese ripoffs, knockoffs, fakes, counterfeits... I reckon the 407 will be like the Z80.

[coppice]

What is the value of HS USB?

The full speed of USB2 may be overkill for most MCU applications, but the full speed of USB1 can be quite limiting. Especially during debug, where you might want to stream a lot of data to a PC for analysis. I think a lot of people have need for something with room to breath.

[JPortici]

What is the value of HS USB?

usb High speed? USB Audio with more than 2x2 i/o channels

In the early days USB audio was limited to 16 bits/48 kHz max.
Today 32 bit / 768 kHz is supported.

A common source of confusion is the version of the bus (USB 1,2 or 3) and the USB audio standard (1 or 2).
USB Audio Class 1 standard (1998)

This standard allows for 24 bits/96 kHz max.
The standard itself doesn't impose any limitation on sample rate.
Class 1 is tied to USB 1 Full Speed = 12 MHz


Every millisecond a package is send.
Maximum package size is 1024 bytes.

2 channel * 24 bit * 96000 Hz sample rate= 4608000 bits/s or 576 Byte/ms
This fits in the 1024 byte limit.
Any higher popular sample rate e.g. 176 kHz needs 1056 bytes so in excess of the maximum package size.

 

All popularr operating systems support USB Audio Class 1 natively.
This means you don’t need to install drivers, it is plug&play.
All support 2 channel audio with 24 bit words and 96 kHz sample rate
USB Audio Class 2 standard (2009)

USB Audio Class 2 additionally supports 32 bit and all common sample rates > 96 kHz
Class 2 uses High Speed (480 MHz). This requires USB 2 or 3.
As the data rate of High Speed is 40 X Full speed, recording a 60 channel using 24 bits at 96 kHz  (132 Mbit/s) is not a problem.

Using High Speed USB for playback  there are no limits in resolution.

It is downwards compatible with class 1.

[peter-h]

where you might want to stream a lot of data to a PC for analysis

You can get ~ 1 megabyte per second with FS USB (CDC - a virtual COM port on the PC).

With the amount of time it takes to get the ST port of FS USB running properly (CDC and MSC in my case) I would not bet on HS USB being easier

Also the PC app is limiting. If you are receiving debugs with say Teraterm, it loses data (or you need to implement the handshake) if you feed it too fast.

usb High speed? USB Audio with more than 2x2 i/o channels

Fair enough - not my area. But maybe quite a narrow application?

[coppice]

where you might want to stream a lot of data to a PC for analysis

You can get ~ 1 megabyte per second with FS USB (CDC - a virtual COM port on the PC).

With the amount of time it takes to get the ST port of FS USB running properly (CDC and MSC in my case) I would not bet on HS USB being easier

Also the PC app is limiting. If you are receiving debugs with say Teraterm, it loses data (or you need to implement the handshake) if you feed it too fast.

Wow, that's really narrow thinking. On the PC side its trivial to get reliable rapid data with tools like libusb to make development easy. On the MCU side there are certainly some performance limitations, but the cores we are talking about are not that slow.

[Debugging]

Regarding the roadmap at the high end MCU line and MPU's in general, I guess STM now faces an up hill battle with NXP. On the MCU side the iMX RT M7 versus the STM32H7437 (no USB-HS w/ PHY) and for MPU the STM32MP (2xA7+ 1xM4 800MHz) versus IMX93 2xA55/1xM33+1xU65 AI @ 1.7GHZ... and there was the Renesas Demo with the M85+Helium-AI

[JPortici]

where you might want to stream a lot of data to a PC for analysis

You can get ~ 1 megabyte per second with FS USB (CDC - a virtual COM port on the PC).

With the amount of time it takes to get the ST port of FS USB running properly (CDC and MSC in my case) I would not bet on HS USB being easier

Also the PC app is limiting. If you are receiving debugs with say Teraterm, it loses data (or you need to implement the handshake) if you feed it too fast.

Then don't do that? It's almost never wroth the hassle to use CDC. When i have lots of data i use raw Bulk endpoints, as I've finally managed how to make windows recognize my device so it gets enumared as a WinUSB device, no driver needed (the application uses libusb, but that's another story)
Raw bulk endpoints: Copy raw memory to endpoint, arm endpoint. let the controller and pc figure out the rest. couldn't be simpler for the MCU. CDC devices instead, at least on the OS side, have to behave as real COM ports with all the delays and buffering

[Sacodepatatas]

and oh yeah, can sign up for free C0 course and get a board (Guess that only applies in Europe and USA, leaving out the poor chip consumer  elsewhere as usual)

ST hates freelancers 😞

[SiliconWizard]

You can be a freelancer and have a business email address.
They don't do that to hate anyone, they do it mostly to avoid spam, which otherwise would be absolutely gigantic. Spam has gotten completely out of control, and even when it's well filtered (which is becoming harder and harder), it still takes the majority of the mail traffic on most exposed servers, that's horrific. So I don't blame too much.

As a freelancer, I would highly suggest buying a domain name anyway, that will help a lot. For about $20/yr you can have a domain name and an email address with your own domain. For a bit more, you can host your website, but even without a website, having an email address with your own domain is a big plus.

[Sacodepatatas]

I have "buyed" a corporate domain (well, I payed 0€ because it was a promo offer), anyway after sending the registering form, ST has to review my registration request, and confirm or deny it in the next days.

I've signed up for several ST events before, just by using my gmail address, and this uncertainty hasn't happened to me before.

[JPortici]

5. Contactless USB2 using 60GHZ ST60

Woah. Reminding myself to put money in ST stocks
now i'm regretting not ditching work to go to EW

People have had working demos of that for maybe 15 years, but it never seems to reach the market.

however in the near future we are going to have gadgets with mmwave antennas in our pocket. I wondered if they were going to remove the charging port too, wireless charging AND wireless data only (brr)

[Debugging]

It's not about freelancer. Tried to access with business account.

Not sure they use some kind of  process to only allow  preference based methods based on location, company name etc..
They probably ran out of free sample C0 stock.

Perhaps they could consider having separate sessions for different regions in the world... 
Would not mind the loss of opportunity to get a C0 board that we probably never would be able to get anyhow, but the course would be interesting.


We appreciate your interest in our workshop on STM32C0: Your next generation 8-bit MCU is a 32-bit, taking place on Thursday, March 23, 2023.
As you may be aware, this is a complimentary workshop with limited seating. Registrations are based on space availability. Due to an overwhelming response, our capacity has been reached and, unfortunately, we are unable to confirm your registration.

... for mmWave, they say it is for automotive, but actually Google, Amazon and the likes don't want your address, they want know if you are in the kitchen, toilet or bedroom to make your life easier and solve all the problems you don't have... Take a look at what Nordic has been working on as well for WIFI to help those big companies...

And

As a freelancer, I would highly suggest buying a domain name anyway, that will help a lot. For about $20/yr you can have a domain name and an email address with your own domain. For a bit more, you can host your website, but even without a website, having an email address with your own domain is a big plus.


Yes do that, some companies already refuse g-mail addresses.. in the end, it won't help those companies much to limit the number the total of  number  requests much because those that really want support, are serious folks that will  or may have their own domain anyhow

[harerod]

pssst - sacodepatatas.es was still available a minute ago...

As others have mentioned - your own domain plus email plus some gigabytes of webspace, with PHP and databases, should be available for less than 50 tax-deductable Euros per year. (just one example, and most certainly not the best: strato.de, who also hosts .com-addresses, should Spanish providers be overly expensive)
Forget Facebook or Twitter or whatever - your own internet domain is the backbone of your online presence.

[Sacodepatatas]

It's not about freelancer. Tried to access with business account.

Not sure they use some kind of  process to only allow  preference based methods based on location, company name etc..
They probably ran out of free sample C0 stock.

Believe or not, after some days of waiting, I have received a confirmation email, hence, i'm in. However I did not choose the yesterday's session but the one of april 20th, because yesterday I had to be aware of the surgery procedure that my mom was undergoing (all went fine).

pssst - sacodepatatas.es was still available a minute ago...

I wouldn't like to kidnap such domain name that is very suitable for the spanish fandom of Marilyn Monroe 😂

[paulca]

Building cruise missiles and such, you don't need anything beyond a chinese ripoff of a 32F407

Friend of mine has done some analysis of various STM32 clones/fakes.  Trust me, you really don't ever need one of those.

Your competitors OTOH...

I looked into F103 clones myself, back in 2019, and I am about to have another look.
Does your friend have a blog or somewhere they share their analysis?

It's a space I am actively trying to avoid as it looks like a massive money pit

I was in that space back when you couldn't buy "drones", the closest thing would have been a DIY tri-copter.  The big thing then was "FPV", using a 12V CCTV camera and 2.4Ghz video transmitter.  There was a thread where someone brought up the various regulations in the US.  For example, selling a product which amounts of a "guidance system", especially if you are exporting it, could get you into some hot legal water.  They ever produced the US government policy documentation/references stating that an airborne navigation system capable of following multiple waypoints to a destination was "restricted".  This was while 13 yo. kids where doing exactly that using micro-controllers and GPS navigation units!

[Smokey]

...
I moved over to ESP32 for a couple of reasons however sourceability being the main one. The IDF tool chain is light years ahead of the ST offering.

...

Can you maybe post over here and let me know what you mean?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/professional-docs-and-toolchain-for-esp32-in-commercial-product/

[tooki]

What is the value of HS USB?

The full speed of USB2 may be overkill for most MCU applications, but the full speed of USB1 can be quite limiting. Especially during debug, where you might want to stream a lot of data to a PC for analysis. I think a lot of people have need for something with room to breath.

FYI, “Full Speed” in the context of USB doesn’t mean “the entire possible speed” as a description, but rather specifically means the 12Mbps mode. Subsequent USB versions don’t redefine the speeds, just add on more, so for example, USB 1.1 Full Speed is 12Mbps, and USB 2.0 Full Speed is also 12Mbps.

Low speed: 1.5Mbps
Full speed: 12Mbps
High speed: 480Mbps

And then I can’t keep track of the official nomenclature in USB 3.0 and later, since it was always confusing, and keeps changing…

[coppice]

What is the value of HS USB?

The full speed of USB2 may be overkill for most MCU applications, but the full speed of USB1 can be quite limiting. Especially during debug, where you might want to stream a lot of data to a PC for analysis. I think a lot of people have need for something with room to breath.

FYI, “Full Speed” in the context of USB doesn’t mean “the entire possible speed” as a description, but rather specifically means the 12Mbps mode. Subsequent USB versions don’t redefine the speeds, just add on more, so for example, USB 1.1 Full Speed is 12Mbps, and USB 2.0 Full Speed is also 12Mbps.

Low speed: 1.5Mbps
Full speed: 12Mbps
High speed: 480Mbps

And then I can’t keep track of the official nomenclature in USB 3.0 and later, since it was always confusing, and keeps changing…

I did say "the full speed off USB2", not "full speed USB". Because of funky terminology in the USB specs those are quite different things. They love funky terms in USB specs. Can USB2 send data at anything like 12Mbps (FS) or 480Mbps (HS)? That's also funky terminology.

[tooki]

Can USB2 send data at anything like 12Mbps (FS) or 480Mbps (HS)? That's also funky terminology.

What are you asking exactly?

[westfw]

can USB2 send data at anything like 12Mbps (FS) or 480Mbps (HS)?

USB2 added the 480Mbps "High Speed."

USB3 adds "Super Speed" (5Gbps)
USB3.2 adds "SuperSpeed+" (10Gbps, or 20Gbps using multiple lanes.)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#USB_3.2