Author Topic: Audio Forum  (Read 1347 times)

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Offline Randy222Topic starter

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Audio Forum
« on: October 01, 2026, 07:44:23 pm »
There's no dedicated forum for audio related equipment?
 

Offline exe

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2026, 08:56:03 am »
What equipment do you have in mind? Is it like discussing distortion analyzers or more like which cables sound better?
Or like which opamp provides wider soundstage and better bass?
 

Offline TUMEMBER

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2026, 10:45:17 am »
There's no dedicated forum for audio related equipment?
I didn't notice. I didn't spot a dedicated section for home appliances, either. That’s a characteristic of this forum—an Augean stable: everything dumped in a heap, and you have to kick through the muck until you find what you're looking for.
W życiu nie ma nic za darmo, są tylko różne formy płatności.
Wciąż płacimy okruchami własnego czasu.
 

Offline TUMEMBER

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2026, 10:48:37 am »
What equipment do you have in mind? Is it like discussing distortion analyzers or more like which cables sound better?
Or like which opamp provides wider soundstage and better bass?
It’s good to know which coils and capacitors to use in a low-pass filter so the bass drivers don't burn out and the tweeters don't "crackle"—and how to select these components optimally.
W życiu nie ma nic za darmo, są tylko różne formy płatności.
Wciąż płacimy okruchami własnego czasu.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2026, 11:20:23 am »
There's already Dodgy Technology for audiophoolery. ;) Maybe https://audiokarma.org/forums/?
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2026, 02:45:18 pm »
There's no dedicated forum for audio related equipment?

Probably as well, IMHO.

If ever anyone asks me how to learn about electronics, I'd tell them to go and make use of any resources they can find that aren't:

a) completely hallucinated AI nonsense, or
b) hi-fi forums.

Online David Hess

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2026, 03:11:40 pm »
I doubt a dedicated audio forum would be any worse than any other forum, and if it is, then it would help segregate such content.

I would not mind having a permanent post with links to other audio forums.
 
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Offline TimFox

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2026, 04:08:58 pm »
It would be refreshing to encounter an audio forum that discussed measurable parameters and related them to the acoustic experience of serious music.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2026, 04:31:06 pm »
diyaudio? No, seriously, I had my very big biases against it, but there is a lot of useful info, esp. on my favourite topics -- opamps and discrets.

I don't mind having an audio subforum here too. Because why not, and because I feel here "more home".
 

Offline Farley

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2026, 05:43:11 pm »
It would be nice if such a forum would be limited to topics such as technical discussions, objective measurements, etc. The chances of topics degrading into how something like rotating resistors 180 degrees helps to open up the sound is likely.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2026, 08:37:22 pm »
I'd say it's impossible to discuss audio here, an audio forum would just descend into insults and ridicule.
Why?
Psycho-acoustics is a huge influence and there is a lot of "audiofoolery" out there. Some of it can be traced back using science but very few people have the test equipment for measuring say distortion. We have long conquered THD as the Holy Grail it's in the sub-ppm level now yet... some of that audio gear sounds not so great. Why? There's a lot missing I think in the tests done and perception with the human ear.

I've worked in recording studios and recording engineers make their money using their ears. Took me while to hear what they are talking about when describing equipment issues or sonic differences, and translate into electronics design.

Example, if I have to argue here about sonic differences between coupling capacitors to armchair know-it-alls, it's too exhausting and they don't really play around with dielectric absorption nor are they able to hear or measure the differences.
 
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Offline exe

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2026, 09:07:51 pm »
That's why it only makes sense to discuss what's measurable.

Oh, and since the majority of audio design on forums revolves around THD, I'd say it's like voltnuterry, but thd-nuttery. I personally don't care about quality of audio I listen to, but I enjoy reading and talking about designing circuits for the lowest distortion possible just because we can.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2026, 09:37:28 pm »
That's why it only makes sense to discuss what's measurable.

Oh, and since the majority of audio design on forums revolves around THD, I'd say it's like voltnuterry, but thd-nuttery. I personally don't care about quality of audio I listen to, but I enjoy reading and talking about designing circuits for the lowest distortion possible just because we can.

In my hobby usage, complementing my collection of serious recordings (LP and CD), I have concentrated on noise and THD in amplifier designs.
Much of my listening is to older polyphony (pre-1700), where distortion has no place to hide.
Of course, when the electronics is well below its maximum power output, the main effect on the sound is the quality of the loudspeakers.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2026, 11:56:42 pm »
JBL makes the important distinction between "sound producers" (musical instruments) and "sound reproducers" (commercial PA, home stereo) in electronics.

Colouration, distortion is fine and natural with musical instruments. THD isn't so important- the woods, varnishes used in a Stradivarius give its distinct sound. JBL electric guitar speakers can give high distortion and peaky freq. response.

But downstream, even going back to the 80's, THD is specmanship. A number for figure of merit.
I'm reminded of Sansui amplifiers that piled on the loop feedback for competitive/best THD numbers, but in use they went unstable, blew up and ended up in the repair shop en masse. Same for Douglas Self's Blameless early designs, they could not take any clipping.
And of course today you have people tweaking Spice sims and thinking they have perfection when that number is really low. But not a realistic result.

What I find important is the out of band stuff (pun intended?) and those paths.
Example: Maplin MOSFET amp poking around with a scope and I find RF on the O/P stage source. AM radio.
Of course- loudspeaker wiring and crossover inductors are lovely antennas, even a dipole, and guess what gets back into the power amp at its output. Same for headphone amps. But people don't really know.
Tube amps with RF on the filaments. It's not hard to peek with a scope there, hams know better but audio people are oblivious.
My point is filtering out RFI affects sound quality but there is no formal test for EMIRR.


On the subject of capacitors, the tone cap in Jimi Hendrix's guitars is the one you want. Nissea Green Chicklet (polyester film) cap. LOL.
See how a celebrity association with a part endorses it, meanwhile the science of paper-in-oil, ceramic, wax, polyester "sound" etc. is underground and the subject of religious wars.
 

Offline dietert1

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 02:30:53 am »
What sense does it make to discuss the same topics over and over again? I mean high quality audio reproduction is no longer any difficult nor expensive and analog technology has been substituted by digital. If you don't know how implement a phase-correct xover for an active speaker or a room correction system, some AI or a youtube video will tell you. Those problems have been solved long ago. The AI will also tell you the equations that emulate tube amplifier sound in the digital domain.

Regards, Dieter
 

Online Alex Nikitin

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 02:43:33 am »
What sense does it make to discuss the same topics over and over again? I mean high quality audio reproduction is no longer any difficult nor expensive and analog technology has been substituted by digital. If you don't know how implement a phase-correct xover for an active speaker or a room correction system, some AI or a youtube video will tell you. Those problems have been solved long ago. The AI will also tell you the equations that emulate tube amplifier sound in the digital domain.

Regards, Dieter


I wish it would be that simple  :palm: . Unfortunately it isn’t. I suppose at some point my hearing will deteriorate to the point when I wouldn’t care but, surprisingly, my aging ears are still too discerning to listen to digitally over- processed music.


Cheers

Alex
 

Offline negativ3

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 02:52:19 am »
An audio forum section with a robust phool filter would be quite nice.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 03:21:13 am »
It would be nice if such a forum would be limited to topics such as technical discussions, objective measurements, etc. The chances of topics degrading into how something like rotating resistors 180 degrees helps to open up the sound is likely.
No, but rotating a transformer or DC filter choke in some old amps by 90 degrees can reduce or eliminate 50/60hz line hum.  Typically in tube amps.  And yes, you can measure the background ripple with a scope or voltmeter, or even hear it.

Offline Grandchuck

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 12:09:35 pm »
Create a poll thread?

I wonder how many current users would like/use an audio forum.  I appreciate that voodoo posts might swamp such a forum. :-\
 

Online David Hess

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 02:51:32 pm »
What sense does it make to discuss the same topics over and over again? I mean high quality audio reproduction is no longer any difficult nor expensive and analog technology has been substituted by digital. If you don't know how implement a phase-correct xover for an active speaker or a room correction system, some AI or a youtube video will tell you. Those problems have been solved long ago. The AI will also tell you the equations that emulate tube amplifier sound in the digital domain.

I remember when I was first designing my own audio circuits, and especially audio power amplifiers, where I thought the way to control bandwidth was to increase feedback.  This was before an internet where I could get advice, and I did not have any books on audio design which discussed why this is a bad idea.  Somehow I quickly learned better.

The hardest part still seems to be speaker design, especially low distortion at low frequencies.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:19:26 pm by David Hess »
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 04:11:41 pm »
JBL makes the important distinction between "sound producers" (musical instruments) and "sound reproducers" (commercial PA, home stereo) in electronics.

Colouration, distortion is fine and natural with musical instruments. THD isn't so important- the woods, varnishes used in a Stradivarius give its distinct sound. JBL electric guitar speakers can give high distortion and peaky freq. response.

But downstream, even going back to the 80's, THD is specmanship. A number for figure of merit.
I'm reminded of Sansui amplifiers that piled on the loop feedback for competitive/best THD numbers, but in use they went unstable, blew up and ended up in the repair shop en masse. Same for Douglas Self's Blameless early designs, they could not take any clipping.
And of course today you have people tweaking Spice sims and thinking they have perfection when that number is really low. But not a realistic result.

What I find important is the out of band stuff (pun intended?) and those paths.
Example: Maplin MOSFET amp poking around with a scope and I find RF on the O/P stage source. AM radio.
Of course- loudspeaker wiring and crossover inductors are lovely antennas, even a dipole, and guess what gets back into the power amp at its output. Same for headphone amps. But people don't really know.
Tube amps with RF on the filaments. It's not hard to peek with a scope there, hams know better but audio people are oblivious.
My point is filtering out RFI affects sound quality but there is no formal test for EMIRR.


On the subject of capacitors, the tone cap in Jimi Hendrix's guitars is the one you want. Nissea Green Chicklet (polyester film) cap. LOL.
See how a celebrity association with a part endorses it, meanwhile the science of paper-in-oil, ceramic, wax, polyester "sound" etc. is underground and the subject of religious wars.

Yes, one can bifurcate audio design into “production” and “reproduction”. 
As Helmholtz discussed a century ago, musical notes from different instruments differ due to their overtone content (in the steady state), as well as their different transients (attack, decay, etc.).  The harmonic overtones in a violin note are not “distortion”, but the natural result of a one-dimensional resonator (string, air column, etc.).  Non-linear electronics are an inherent part of many electrical musical instruments, since pure sine waves from a good signal generator are boring.  Guitar amplifiers are usually inappropriate to the reproduction from a CD of a string quartet.

In reproduction, THD is a useful measurement of performance, along with IMD (intermodulation) that is more directly related to degradation of complex musical signals.  THD is defined straightforwardly, but there are multiple ways to define the measurement protocol for IMD.  EMI, hum, and other non-indigenous components added to the music can be annoying as well.

In RF design, one often uses 3rd-order IMD measurements, since the odd-order products are close to the original tones and muck them up in an unpleasant manner.  Similarly in audio, the 2nd and 3rd order harmonics may be hidden by the harmonic components of the signal, but the IMD products are not harmonic.
This is why 3rd-order harmonic distortion is usually considered to be “worse” than 2nd-order, since the non-linearity that results in 3rd-order harmonics also results in 3rd-order IMD near the original tones.

I once posted a similar discussion to an audio forum, and someone agreed with me that 3rd-order distortion was bad, because he saw that the 3rd harmonic of A=440 Hz was 1320 Hz, which did not appear in a table of musical frequencies.  The 2nd harmonic 880 Hz did, since it was an octave higher.  He did not understand that the table was for the conventional “well-tempered” scale used on pianos, where the intervals are tweaked to sound equally wrong in any key, as an engineering approximation to allow practical keyboards.
 

Offline DimitriP

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Re: Audio Forum
« Reply #21 on: Yesterday at 05:21:20 pm »
A  dedicated autdio forum here as needed as as dedicated Oscilloscope forum, or Multimeter forum.

Having ad audio forum here to avoid the "browsing commute" to other places would be redundant. There are only a few other places with good diy info and audio reviews with good karma in discussions.
It's one tab over!
Plus years of accumulated content.

And in the off chance someone comes up with an audio subject or issue that is indeed a "world premiere" , ie has neven been discussed before , nothing prevents this unicorn thread from starting ! :)




   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 


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