Rossmann Group Looking For A New Shop

[EEVblog]

Louis Rossmann looking for a new shop is the 2019 reality series of the year.

I think there are more videos than are in the playlist:

[Lord of nothing]

omg   



Are I am the only one who think its a horrible idea to make a Floor out of Wood?!

[Monkeh]

omg   



Are I am the only one who think its a horrible idea to make a Floor out of Wood?!

Yes.

[Lord of nothing]

When you put some Wires under them and the catch Fire?!
Maybe someone know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111

[Monkeh]

When you put some Wires under them and the catch Fire?!

Untold hundreds of millions of houses have wooden construction and wires. Things don't burst into flames at random.

[langwadt]

omg   



Are I am the only one who think its a horrible idea to make a Floor out of Wood?!

I'd say most houses have a wood floor

[wraper]

I'd say most houses have a wood floor

The problem is not a wood floor as such but how it was done.

[langwadt]

I'd say most houses have a wood floor

The problem is not a wood floor as such but how it was done.

sure, but Lord of nothing seem to think the wood is a problem

[dr.diesel]

Almost all US residential construction has the electrical run through/under/above wood, and not in conduit with some exceptions, like Chicago.

For the most part perfectly safe if done correctly.

[I wanted a rude username]

the video is so stable !

Even more amazingly, he supposedly doesn't use a gyroscopically stabilised mount. Just an LG G8 ThinQ. Apparently it incorporates a Sony camera with optical image stabilisation. That is an expensive flipping phone though.

[Lord of nothing]

I'd say most houses have a wood floor

Who?
Here in Austria the Law are very strict when it  come to Fire safety.

[floobydust]

Wood subfloor sucks, they creak and groan and laminate flooring on top generates a ton of static electricity, absolute crap for a lab. Concrete is great, paint it or floor tile it.

In the video, I don't see much for an up-to-code sprinkler system? 

[tszaboo]

Almost all US residential construction has the electrical run through/under/above wood, and not in conduit with some exceptions, like Chicago.

For the most part perfectly safe if done correctly.

Yeah, but the houses in the US are just big shacks, made to last 20 years.

[Brumby]

Are I am the only one who think its a horrible idea to make a Floor out of Wood?!

If you were to have followed the journey, you will know why it's been done with wood.

What material would you suggest they use?

When you put some Wires under them and the catch Fire?!

Then there are a LOT of homes and other buildings around the world that are death traps!!!

Almost all US residential construction has the electrical run through/under/above wood, and not in conduit with some exceptions, like Chicago.

For the most part perfectly safe if done correctly.

Aside from Chicago (about which I know nothing) I absolutely agree.

I'd say most houses have a wood floor

Who?
Here in Austria the Law are very strict when it  come to Fire safety.

Last I checked, New York wasn't in Austria.

Wood subfloor sucks, they creak and groan and laminate flooring on top generates a ton of static electricity, absolute crap for a lab.

Floor creaking was one of the key issues being addressed with the contractor in recent videos.

Concrete is great, paint it or floor tile it.

Concrete is impractical - for more reasons than one.  This has been a subject that has been repeatedly addressed by Louis and Paul

In the video, I don't see much for an up-to-code sprinkler system? 

Strange.  I distinctly remember Louis commenting on the sprinkler system as being "up to code".



But, with the dismissal of the contractor, the game has changed completely, now.

[thinkfat]

Then there are a LOT of homes and other buildings around the world that are death traps!!!

Speaking of death traps - that reminds me of that one occasion where we visited a friend in Calabria in southern Italy. There was a heavy downpour of rain hitting the entrance of the house and all of a sudden the doorbell started ringing faintly. One of the guys went to have a look and as he touched the metal frame of the doorbell knob, he got a heavy electric shock that sent him to the ground.

It turned out that the doorbell was mains powered. Normally, you'd use a low-voltage system to make sure to not electrocute unwitting visitors, but hey, what could possibly go wrong? Wires never get loose, right?

What went wrong was that the rain had flooded the cavity in which the doorbell knob was mounted, shorted the electric switch (hence the bell ringing) and of course connected the metal frame to mains voltage.

[Brumby]

As I cited above....

For the most part perfectly safe if done correctly.

[thinkfat]

As I cited above....

For the most part perfectly safe if done correctly.

And then there's this thing called "Contractor Creativity"...

[dr.diesel]

And then there's this thing called "Contractor Creativity"...

Which applies to any construction or material.

[Cerebus]

Almost all US residential construction has the electrical run through/under/above wood, and not in conduit with some exceptions, like Chicago.

For the most part perfectly safe if done correctly.

Yeah, but the houses in the US are just big shacks, made to last 20 years.

Some bloke called Henry Tudor (kind of known for the number of 'divorces' he had) had this weekend cottage in Epping built out of wood in 1543AD (some 64 years before the founding of Jamestown in Virginia):



with wood floors (and wood for everything apart from the tiled roof, fireplaces and chimney, with a bit of plaster slapped here and there):



and it's still standing. It even has electricity nowadays.

My house has the original wood floors (and electricity) and has been here since Queen Victoria was on the throne.

[Monkeh]

I'd say most houses have a wood floor

Who?
Here in Austria the Law are very strict when it  come to Fire safety.

And yet I can assure you to this day, in Austria, houses are made with both wood and electricity..

[Bud]

As I cited above....

For the most part perfectly safe if done correctly.

And then there's this thing called "Contractor Creativity"...

For that there are Electrical Code standards that specify rules for electrical wiring over wood structures.

[floobydust]

Wood subfloor sucks, they creak and groan and laminate flooring on top generates a ton of static electricity, absolute crap for a lab.

Floor creaking was one of the key issues being addressed with the contractor in recent videos.

Concrete is great, paint it or floor tile it.

Concrete is impractical - for more reasons than one.  This has been a subject that has been repeatedly addressed by Louis and Paul

In the video, I don't see much for an up-to-code sprinkler system? 

Strange.  I distinctly remember Louis commenting on the sprinkler system as being "up to code".
But, with the dismissal of the contractor, the game has changed completely, now.

Sometimes moving or adding a wall in a building is done yet leaving the sprinkler heads in their old position because contractors are lazy crooks. I only saw two at the back end of the room which seemed strange.
NFPA 13 (436 pages!) 8.12.3.1 maximum spacing depends on ceiling height and seems to be 12 ft.

I thought the floor is presently concrete? I still say a wood subfloor is awful, there are no joists it's just a 2x4 wall on its side. Even 1" is enough.

[langwadt]

I thought the floor is presently concrete? I still say a wood subfloor is awful, there are no joists it's just a 2x4 wall on its side. Even 1" is enough.

afair he said there is quite the difference in height from from to back of the store and adding enough concrete to level it out would be more weight than the construction can handle.

if the joists were shimmed up properly and not just held up with pieces of wood nailed to the side, the spans should be quite short

[EEVblog]

But, with the dismissal of the contractor, the game has changed completely, now.

I haven't been keeping up to date, what's the TLDR?
Has Louis done his dough so far?

[langwadt]

But, with the dismissal of the contractor, the game has changed completely, now.

I haven't been keeping up to date, what's the TLDR?
Has Louis done his dough so far?

afaict the contractor did crappy work, cut corners and is a bit of scammer with bankruptcies in his past so the work done
so far is scrap and Louis is unlikely to see any of his money back

[Nusa]

Yeah, the TLDR is that the contractor was a rip-off artist and virtually everything the guy did is substandard and has to be ripped out. Louis is too far down the list of people the contractor owes to expect any money back even if he did bother suing, so the money is gone and Louis got burned. Louis's new plan is to give up on his dream of level floors and just fix the existing floors and other essentials so he can move in.

Louis has longer videos on the subject up, but this is the one to watch if you want the short version. The actual firing over the phone conversation starts about 4 minutes in.

[Lord of nothing]

I guessed the never heard of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_loading

I haven't been keeping up to date, what's the TLDR?

Well I was wondering why the use a Wooden Floor Construction. In my eyes thats a HUGE fire hazard. Lets say a Cheap Chinese Power Supply on the Floor Catch Fire and ash fall truth and the structure below glows until the Fire break wild.

And yet I can assure you to this day, in Austria, houses are made with both wood and electricity..

And the Burn constantly down... A House Made of Bricks, Congregate would just one Room be burned Down.

we visited a friend in Calabria

Build by the Mafia...

What material would you suggest they use?

In our House and former Shop we used different Materials: Ceramic Tile, Industrial Carpet, PVC ("Linoleum"),...

Here I found some from a German Company: https://www.lindner-group.com/de_DE/ausbauprodukte/boden/hohlboden/cavopex/
The use "Tiles" out of Cement other Company use Similar "Tiles" out of Not burnable Materials. Here no idiot would do this out of Wood!

What I forgott to mention a House who use Wood use a lot of Materials who are not Burn like "Dry Wall plates", Glass Wool Insulation,...

[Monkeh]

In my eyes thats a HUGE fire hazard.

Thankfully, people who actually know what they're talking about make these sorts of decisions..

[mariush]

Basically the floor is not flat, it's something like 2-3" height difference between the middle of the floor and the sides

Can't use concrete because there's not enough pillars / support beams / whatever they're called in the cellar - the weight of concrete or other materials that would make the floor flat PLUS what you'd have on top (desks, equipment) would be too much and cause the floor to break and you'd end up in the basement.

Yeah, he got screwed out of 20-30k ... about the same as he gets through gofundme campaign, so it's not like he ends up bankrupt or anything, it's just a significant loss.

The floor as is now could work for a few years, but it's built wrong and it would eventually get worse. Also, he would have to hire some other companies to fix the bathroom (because floor was raised the bathroom would also have to be raised) and the front of the store also has to be done ... it's a lot of added costs.
So I guess he decided to just take out the bad floor and accept the loss and just put some tile on the floor and move sooner into the new store.

[EEVblog]

Basically the floor is not flat, it's something like 2-3" height difference between the middle of the floor and the sides

Can't he just get a concrete dude in to flatten it out?

[langwadt]

Basically the floor is not flat, it's something like 2-3" height difference between the middle of the floor and the sides

Can't he just get a concrete dude in to flatten it out?

apparently the structure can't carry that much extra load

[Lord of nothing]

Basically the floor is not flat, it's something like 2-3" height difference between the middle of the floor and the sides

WE TE EF?! And the Rent this "Shit Hole"? 
Here in Austria I would call the Authorities first to inspect it if is safe to Use.
Its not normal that the Floor bend! 

[MasterBuilder]

Floor levelling options:

1. Raise the low part. Pour a screed if there a big drop like 1", less than that a floor levelling compound may be used. These options need a lot of material which would indeed weigh a lot.

2. Lower the high part. A diamond wheel on a grinder will do this hard messy work. But 2/3" is probably excessive.

3. Build a wooden floor over the existing unlevel subfloor. Seems the best option for this considering the weight issues. This should be no problem to a reputable contractor.

[Nusa]

#1 too heavy
#2 likely not practical. This isn't on a slab, there's a basement under. I don't know the underlying structure, but it's a NYC building over 100 years old, so imagine.
#3 was what he was having done when he got burned by the contractor. He's now too short on cash and time to risk trying that again.

Remember, he's paying rent on two stores the longer this process takes. So moving is now becoming important than making everything perfect.

Louis didn't start this thread and is not likely to read it. If you have genuine useful suggestions after actually looking at his youtube videos of the store, contact him directly. If you ask how to contact him, then I instantly know you skipped looking at his videos.

[Lord of nothing]

Remember, he's paying rent on two stores the longer this process takes.

Sorry how insane someone must be to Rent that?
Ok ok back when my Dads "Company" was looking for a affordable Shop we did make a Deal with the Owner of the Building that he is paying for new Window, Door and Floor and we Paint the Wall our Self and make the IT, Phone and other Wire our self.
That was far from then what Mr. Rossmann should do.

[EEVblog]

Basically the floor is not flat, it's something like 2-3" height difference between the middle of the floor and the sides

Can't he just get a concrete dude in to flatten it out?

apparently the structure can't carry that much extra load

Then how about just flattening out a centre strip and have a small flat step either side?
If it's even enough you could even get wooden pieces custom angle cut either side maybe?
Surely there is an easy solution for something like this, it's only a few inches

[Brumby]

Basically the floor is not flat, it's something like 2-3" height difference between the middle of the floor and the sides

Can't he just get a concrete dude in to flatten it out?

apparently the structure can't carry that much extra load

Then how about just flattening out a centre strip and have a small flat step either side?
If it's even enough you could even get wooden pieces custom angle cut either side maybe?
Surely there is an easy solution for something like this, it's only a few inches

IIRC, the difference at some points was much greater - something like 6", I believe.

There solution implemented by the contractor was on the right track ... with one exception and one cheap-out switch.

The exception was the means for support of the framing.  There should have been shims or packers under the framing timber.  Instead, there were pieces nailed to the side - which had a time advantage against fitting packers.  These pieces relied on the shear rigidity of nails - which, under the forces you would expect on a floor, would soon give, allowing the surface to droop under load (bouncy floor) and/or enable creaking.  Packers under the frame would be under compression and would not budge, especially if a bead of a construction adhesive was applied.  If the boards could be lifted, these packers could still be fitted and the floor salvaged - but it seems lifting the boards is problematic.

The cheap-out was the change to OSB.  I cringed when Louis and Paul let that one slide.

[sokoloff]

Sometimes moving or adding a wall in a building is done yet leaving the sprinkler heads in their old position because contractors are lazy crooks.

Or perhaps more commonly, because a property user hires a contractor to move a wall and doesn’t hire one to update the sprinkler system.

Sure, there are crooks in contracting, but there’s almost surely a lot more (in absolute numbers) tight with a buck property owner/users than crooked contractors.

[Nominal Animal]

A few years ago, I redid the floor on my parent's kitchen, in the middle floor of a three-story house, with a wood-structure floor.  The floor was creaking, and had sagged an inch or so from a very heavy brick bread oven.  The structure was two layers of two-by-six joists (crossways).  To fix most of the sag, I added shims between the two layers, at regular intervals; about half a foot to foot apart.

When the house was built over thirty years ago, the floor was made of two layers of floor-quality OSB.  (It's over an inch thick, with a long tongue on two sides, and a deep groove on two sides.)  Some of it was glued, but all nailed with "floor nails" (friction-adding "collars" near the head), and it was the nails creaked like crazy, at every step.  After removing the OSB, shimming, and replacing with new OSB with screws, no glue, the floor is silent now, and has been for five years.  (I would have preferred plywood, but the price difference was too high.)

At Louis' new store, to get a flat floor with two layers of small joists (two-by-twos at two foot spacing, shims would be needed between the lower joist and the concrete floor, at most a foot intervals.  The shims are often wood, so they really are just short pieces of boards of different thicknesses.

It is not hard to do, if I can do it.

A couple of laser levels (that cost less than a hundred bucks) correctly positioned, and a couple of guys can shim the structure flat and level in no time, before the joists are screwed together, then a layer of plywood glued and screwed on to, optionally a second layer glued and screwed on top (to tie large sections of the floor to a single slab -- but note that if the underworks need fixing, the entire slab needs to be replaced), depending on the thickness of the plywood.

I am not at all surprised by the comments in the video from people who do that sort of stuff for a living, cursing the contractor to hell.
Sure, there are a lot of contractors with shoe size similar to their IQ doing floor work too, but for an average person, it isn't hard.  For someone who has talent in organizing and doing that sort of stuff, it should have been a cakewalk: a straightforward job that if well done, would have gained a LOT of positive publicity.  Perfect for any honest capable contractor, really.

[TassiloH]

#1 too heavy

Not necessarily. There is bonded floor filling that is basically styrofoam particles with a cement-based binding agent. That stuff is good from 0.5inch to 10s of inches and does not weigh much. On top of that go pre-made flooring elements, and then the final floor (e.g. https://www.fermacell.com/en/flooring but there are other companies, too). I have used it once for a remodeling, this is relatively easy and quite fast. Especially with a big rectangular room. No clue if something like that is available in the US, though.

[langwadt]

Basically the floor is not flat, it's something like 2-3" height difference between the middle of the floor and the sides

Can't he just get a concrete dude in to flatten it out?

apparently the structure can't carry that much extra load

Then how about just flattening out a centre strip and have a small flat step either side?
If it's even enough you could even get wooden pieces custom angle cut either side maybe?
Surely there is an easy solution for something like this, it's only a few inches

IIRC, the difference at some points was much greater - something like 6", I believe.

There solution implemented by the contractor was on the right track ... with one exception and one cheap-out switch.

The exception was the means for support of the framing.  There should have been shims or packers under the framing timber.  Instead, there were pieces nailed to the side - which had a time advantage against fitting packers.  These pieces relied on the shear rigidity of nails - which, under the forces you would expect on a floor, would soon give, allowing the surface to droop under load (bouncy floor) and/or enable creaking.  Packers under the frame would be under compression and would not budge, especially if a bead of a construction adhesive was applied.  If the boards could be lifted, these packers could still be fitted and the floor salvaged - but it seems lifting the boards is problematic.

you can even buy ready-to-go plastic support systems with interlocking wedges or a screw system to adjust the heights

https://youtu.be/iF0Ns58sfV4

[Bud]

Yeah...., Day 38....
Did you guys watch the other 37 days videos? Rossman seems to shoot and upload every possible shit that often lasts hour, is that in attempt of collect as much youtube money as the sheep crowd can give. Why don't he publish his toilet visit videos, i am sure many of his fans will be excited to watch.

[Nominal Animal]

Yeah...., Day 38....
Did you guys watch the other 37 days videos? Rossman seems to shoot and upload every possible shit that often lasts hour

Not if you only watch the edited stuff here.