Author Topic: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros  (Read 2218 times)

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Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« on: March 10, 2024, 03:20:20 pm »
I'm uncertain if this question belongs in the Microprocessor section, but it's somewhat simple.

At an old job we had timing circuits that used regular logic gates and flip-flops. Eventually the newer designs incorporated FPGAs and I no longer saw logic circuits. My last few jobs seem to always use micros (i.e. software) to handle the logic now.

Are logic gates being phased out and replaced with micros to save room and money?
 

Offline themadhippy

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2024, 03:45:02 pm »
no,the logic gates just got smaller and loads of em fit in the thing we call a micro.
 

Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2024, 03:53:41 pm »
Does this mean the days of seeing an array of logic gates and flip flops are ending?

If more logic is being placed into what we call a micro, that means the code will now be dealing with the logic making it harder to repair electronics, correct?
 

Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2024, 03:58:00 pm »
no,the logic gates just got smaller and loads of em fit in the thing we call a micro.

That is just mean  :-DD

It is also what sits at the heart of FPGA's for that matter, but there will always be room for standard logic IC's. Sometimes you just need to invert a signal and with the availability of single gates it is probably cheaper than using a microcontroller. Or you need to shift between voltage levels. Logic IC's come to the rescue.

Does this mean the days of seeing an array of logic gates and flip flops are ending?

If more logic is being placed into what we call a micro, that means the code will now be dealing with the logic making it harder to repair electronics, correct?

Not at all. FPGA's have there niche, as well as logic IC's.

Sure a lot of things can be done with microcontrollers, but there are speed limits.

Edit:

Electronics getting smaller and smaller is what makes repairs more difficult. This is just a continuing line, like TV's used to be based on valves, then transistors, then dedicated IC's, also making it harder to fix a TV, unless a part could be sourced.

With microcontrollers it is the same, but you also need the firmware, which might be more difficult.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2024, 04:01:53 pm by pcprogrammer »
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2024, 04:10:20 pm »
I use a lot of standard logic ICs, both for logic, but especially for timing. Mostly 74AC or 74HC, but sometimes also 4xxx series.
CPLD/FPGAs could do it as well, but the problem is that their power consumption is horrendous. The lowest power CPLDs I've managed to find burn 100+ mA, where my standard logic will need less than 5 mA.

 

Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2024, 04:18:13 pm »
I should clarify "logic" being more at the level of AND, OR, and basic flip flops.

Absolutely correct that sometimes a simple circuit will require a few gates, so a micro (or FPGA) would be a waste of money.

As mentioned, I've seen a shift where it's been years since any circuits at a company I've worked for use logic gates. It makes sense because the things some of the micros use in existing circuits I'm working with would take an array of gates to perform, so I get it, but scary because A: I don't know how to program these micros and B: it's another step towards being unable to repair our own electronics.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2024, 04:47:11 pm »
Does this mean the days of seeing an array of logic gates and flip flops are ending?

If more logic is being placed into what we call a micro, that means the code will now be dealing with the logic making it harder to repair electronics, correct?
But fewer parts also make things more reliable so less likely to need repair.
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Online IanB

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2024, 04:57:26 pm »
In my first job, we had some logic implemented with pneumatic logic gates. It made sense because it was in an environment unfriendly to electronics, there was no need for an electrical power supply, the compressed air to run it was already available in the industrial setting, and the state of the logic was easily observed.

Those conditions that applied then would likely still apply today.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2024, 05:03:35 pm »
Glue logic isn't going anywhere.  There's just less of it used in any given place, compared to the bad old days when you needed, say, whole cards of the damned stuff to accomplish much of anything.

Give or take, if you need more than two or three chips to do the job -- just toss it in a micro, or FPGA.  Occasionally you find an ASIC which does the function as well -- more and more highly-specialized chips appear on the market, day by day.

It's rare that it's economical or otherwise worthwhile to build even a fairly modest function out of hardware logic, let alone because, if you need to make changes coming up to or following release, you're SOL with hardware, but firmware can be updated.

Mind, it may cost more to write that firmware.  If you're doing a few-off sort of thing, and the application is well defined, the break-even point might be more like dozens of chips worth of logic.

Which one, MCU or FPGA, depends on how fast and accurately (mainly in terms of timing) you need the result.  FPGAs are excellent for electronic interfaces and high bandwidth systems; it's nigh impossible to interface even a high-performance MCU to something like a vintage PC or console bus, but trivial for an FPGA.  (Some MCUs do in fact include bus interface hardware, or complex timers, SPI or other peripherals which can be used in these ways.  Some even include whole state machines, like RP2040's PIO.  Or specialized devices with very high granularity per pin or group, like XCore.)  For everything else, the grade of MCU dictates how much processing and bandwidth can be done, within a modest (often poorly defined, due to inconsistent timings: execution path variation, cache stalling, interrupt overhead, etc.) time frame, say µs to ms, and up.  Top-of-the-line CPUs (ARM64, amd64, RISC-V, etc., with zillions of extensions each, and often paired with even more impressive vector-data and array-CPU style GPUs) offer many GFLOPS of performance, even just as a starting point, let alone with all the cores brought to bear (TFLOPS are available!).


I use a lot of standard logic ICs, both for logic, but especially for timing. Mostly 74AC or 74HC, but sometimes also 4xxx series.
CPLD/FPGAs could do it as well, but the problem is that their power consumption is horrendous. The lowest power CPLDs I've managed to find burn 100+ mA, where my standard logic will need less than 5 mA.

AFAIK, CPLDs are obsolete -- give or take exact design and functionality, as there is a lot of overlap with FPGAs, but classics like MAX5k/7k were so ridiculously thirsty due to use of EEPROM programming.  Basically as I understand it, it's NMOS logic, where the logic functions are programmed in via floating gates.  There's no complementary EEPROM (or, it's not worth setting up complements and the programming logic to set them) so it's either off or sinking bias current.  In an E(E)PROM (chip, as such), you only get that current consumption during a read cycle, here it's 100% always-on; ridiculously inefficient.

Modern FPGAs do... other things; what, I'm not up to speed on, but an example is a Flash block off to the side, that's copied into SRAM automatically during startup (which does cost a few ms at power-on, which can be prohibitive in those weird applications when you really do need instant-on function).  AFAIK, external configuration Flash is still very common as well (the chip is read in via SPI or whatever, filling SRAM tables -- LUTs, logic arrays, etc.).

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Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2024, 05:22:28 pm »
Modern FPGAs do... other things; what, I'm not up to speed on, but an example is a Flash block off to the side, that's copied into SRAM automatically during startup (which does cost a few ms at power-on, which can be prohibitive in those weird applications when you really do need instant-on function).  AFAIK, external configuration Flash is still very common as well (the chip is read in via SPI or whatever, filling SRAM tables -- LUTs, logic arrays, etc.).

Yep. Some do have internal flash memory for the configuration but external is most common. With large ones and predefined memory parts the configuration can be very large and take quite a while to load. Also depends on the default speed of the used interface. For most it is possible to do it with a CPU host based on serial or parallel to speed it up a bit, but still.

They are very versatile though.

Offline tooki

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2024, 05:53:48 pm »
Are logic gates being phased out and replaced with micros to save room and money?
Let’s take that and replace it with a modified question: Are discrete logic products being phased out?

No. The fact that TI and co continue to release new logic products (like tiny SMD packages containing a single logic gate) and even entirely new logic families (like TI did a few years ago) are a strong indicator that they’re not going away.

Now let’s address the question you probably meant: Are entire circuits made of discrete logic parts going away?

Yes, to a large degree. It’s easier and cheaper to use a MCU or FPGA (depending on the application) most of the time.


So how does one reconcile the seemingly-contradictory answers to these questions? T3sl4co1l already did: glue logic. We aren’t designing entire circuits around discrete logic much, but we use discrete logic to help out here and there. You might need a level shifter or line driver. Or you might need to perform a hardware-level logical operation on some signals (so that they cannot fail due to a software bug, or because they need to be much faster than an MCU, or because the output goes to an MCU pin that isn’t under software control, like a reset line or bootstrapping pin.)
 

Offline HwAoRrDk

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2024, 05:57:42 pm »
I can't speak for industry trends in general, but I was recently working on a design where I was needing some fairly simple gating/latching logic for power switching. I came up with a design using three 74-series logic ICs which would've done the job. But then I realised I can buy a cheap MCU that does it all for the cost of just one of the logic ICs. Sure I now have an extra assembly step of programming the MCU, but that's a trade-off I was willing to make.
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2024, 06:00:34 pm »
Does this mean the days of seeing an array of logic gates and flip flops are ending?

No. Just look at distributor cataloges.

Interestingly, logic gates are being split out so there is just one in each package; e.g. see the 74LVC1G* devices. 1G implies 1 gate so a 74LVC1G04 contains a single inverter, or a '00 contains a single 2-input NAND gate.

Quote
If more logic is being placed into what we call a micro, that means the code will now be dealing with the logic making it harder to repair electronics, correct?

Yes.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2024, 06:04:58 pm by tggzzz »
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2024, 06:04:05 pm »
In my first job, we had some logic implemented with pneumatic logic gates. It made sense because it was in an environment unfriendly to electronics, there was no need for an electrical power supply, the compressed air to run it was already available in the industrial setting, and the state of the logic was easily observed.

Those conditions that applied then would likely still apply today.

I was once asked whether to replace such (2000psi?) logic with a micro.

Given that the gas was propane on an unmanned offshore oil platform, it seemed to be a difficult proposition :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2024, 06:08:33 pm »
Now let’s address the question you probably meant: Are entire circuits made of discrete logic parts going away?
Not just gone, but long gone, like 20+ years ago. Almost anything that needs more than a few 74 series packages will be simpler, cheaper & more flexible to do with an MCU
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2024, 06:11:26 pm »
Now let’s address the question you probably meant:
...

Yes, answering a question is easy.

Asking the right question is more difficult - and more important.

Some of the people I've really respected have the knack of asking a simple question, the answer to which illuminates whole areas of the topic.

For software systems one such question is "what do you mean by identity?", or the very similar "what is the meaning of an address?".
For digital hardware systems, "what are the clock domain boundaries?".
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online PCB.Wiz

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2024, 07:12:05 pm »
Are logic gates being phased out and replaced with micros to save room and money?
Broadly, yes.
Of course, it does need to 'save room and money' which means Logic Gates will never go away entirely.
If you pop over to lcsc and search MCU and Logic, you find higher stocks of logic, focused mainly on single gate parts, with 8 bit shift registers popular too, and analog switches.

I should clarify "logic" being more at the level of AND, OR, and basic flip flops.

Absolutely correct that sometimes a simple circuit will require a few gates, so a micro (or FPGA) would be a waste of money.

As mentioned, I've seen a shift where it's been years since any circuits at a company I've worked for use logic gates.
It makes sense because the things some of the micros use in existing circuits I'm working with would take an array of gates to perform, so I get it,
but scary because
A: I don't know how to program these micros and
B: it's another step towards being unable to repair our own electronics.

A: is easily solved. Learn how to program them :)
B: has been here a long time already, the very small parts are hard to identify and source.
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2024, 07:27:58 pm »
Large boards full of logic ICs, implementing complex functionality, are gone. Need for some relatively simple glue logic (orring many signals, muxing/demuxing, schmitt triggering, level conversion, bus isolation, ...) hasn't gone anywhere. This is often just 1-2 parts next to a microcontroller.
 
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Offline artag

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2024, 12:02:54 am »

If more logic is being placed into what we call a micro, that means the code will now be dealing with the logic making it harder to repair electronics, correct?

Most manufacturers only care about manufacturing costs, not repair costs.
For some high-value items, repair costs may be important. But repair costs with micros can also be lower - no need to troubleshoot a board full of logic, just replace a subassembly (might be a micro).
Repair costs for someone without access to company information and spares supplies are very unlikely to feature in any manufacturer's decisions.
 

Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2024, 04:28:35 am »
Thanks for the feedback and this confirms my observation.

Quote
A: is easily solved. Learn how to program them

You're absolutely correct. ST MCUs seem to be popular; unless I'm wrong. Maybe it's time I begin diving into these a bit to learn some of the basic structure.

Replacing an entire board dedicated to logic chips with an MCU makes sense, do get it and understand the cost/space savings. It just upsets me when I want to repair something and see a MCU or EEPROM because I know it can't be replaced if it's suspected bad.

 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2024, 04:38:30 am »
It depends.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2024, 07:42:26 am »
MCUs are identifiable; there is a great diversity of them available, but many aren't beyond reach.  The main problem is lack of firmware, and most commercial products will set the lock bits that (nominally) prevent readout.  Even with readout, you only have a binary blob, no debug symbols; reverse engineering is a chore -- but still quite tractable with help of decompilation tools like Ghidra.

There are hackers working on many prominent commercial products; very hit-or-miss of course, mainly when poor behavior, locked or malfunctioning features inspire a user to engage at such length.  This includes unlocking readout, which is often an internal firmware check susceptible to power supply glitching, or with still more investigation, perhaps a zero-day can be found that allows reading out arbitrary memory and thus the entire firmware.  USB and network devices are staples of this, often USB by abusing the descriptor offset/length (it's just copying out some memory somewhere), network by abusing packet sizes, parsing, any manner of web server or other protocol, etc..

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Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2024, 09:53:40 am »
In my first job, we had some logic implemented with pneumatic logic gates. It made sense because it was in an environment unfriendly to electronics, there was no need for an electrical power supply, the compressed air to run it was already available in the industrial setting, and the state of the logic was easily observed.

Those conditions that applied then would likely still apply today.

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Offline Berni

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2024, 10:22:50 am »
Replacing an entire board dedicated to logic chips with an MCU makes sense, do get it and understand the cost/space savings. It just upsets me when I want to repair something and see a MCU or EEPROM because I know it can't be replaced if it's suspected bad.

We already had this as far back as the 1980s. There is plenty of test equipment from that time that is full of EPROMs, ROMs, microprocessors etc.. And i had cases of them failing (tho the awesome people of this forum helped me find a binary image of the chip contents). The difference back then is that microprocessors were awfully expensive (since they were the latest and greatest in chip manufacturing technology) and so only expensive professional equipment could afford to use then inside their BOM.

So cheap consumer products had 2 options:
1) Dumb down the features of the product so much that it is viable to implement in a handful of standard chips.
2) Create a ASIC for the most complicated parts and make sure you are making a product with a large enough market to justify the price of developing the ASIC.

So the result is that the old products are either full of mostly analog circuitry (radios, TVs, toys..etc) or the product is based around a special ASIC that does everything (Calculators, digital watches..etc) and is often encapsulated under a black epoxy glob (since that's cheaper than a chip package)

In these modern times products have gotten so complex that it is infeasible to implement them with standard chips, while at the same time MCUs have gotten so cheap that they are viable for replacing even fairly simple analog circuitry.

Just look around you at various products and imagine implementing them without a MCU somewhere deep in there. Things like TVs, monitors, webcams, USB microphones, bluetooth speakers, wireless game controllers, modems, WiFi routers, induction cookers with capacitive buttons...etc
 

Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2024, 01:17:37 pm »
Quote
Even with readout, you only have a binary blob, no debug symbols; reverse engineering is a chore

Reverse engineering probably isn't a necessity as obtaining the code to burn a new chip in order to replace a suspect failed chip. Maybe I'm wrong, but people are pushing for the "right to repair", however, electronics with programmed chips (whether an EEPROM, MCU, etc...) can't be repaired without obtaining a replacement from the company. In my limited experience, I've never had success purchasing a programmed component from a company. Most times the response I get is to send the unit back for evaluation/repair at a ridiculous cost, no response at all, or some generic response about the apologizing for issues I'm experiencing.



 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2024, 01:37:31 pm »
Yup, replacement parts are one thing; though if they're obsolete, or customized (e.g. Apple's favorite "take an off the shelf part and increment the number"), you're still SOL, so it's not uncommon -- once thoroughly committed to repairing, modifying or otherwise servicing something -- to need REing.

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Offline HwAoRrDk

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2024, 01:45:52 pm »
For repairability I'd say that worse than programmed parts like MCUs are custom parts. You can't buy them, you can't get information on them (datasheets, etc) - you're limited to harvesting donor parts from other units.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2024, 02:03:18 pm »
For repairability I'd say that worse than programmed parts like MCUs are custom parts. You can't buy them, you can't get information on them (datasheets, etc) - you're limited to harvesting donor parts from other units.

I did once manage to repair a blown resistor inside a Tektronix custom IC in a Tek485. Both ends of the resistor were accessible externally, so I simply soldered an SMD resistor nearby :)

I worked, but the 1ns risetime became 1.25ns :(

Another time the leads on an HP DIL IC. They had rusted, but I was able to carefully replace them with wire-wrap wire.

But those are definitely very much the exception, of course.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2024, 02:05:32 pm by tggzzz »
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Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2024, 02:16:17 pm »
As I stated, I do get the reason for using MCUs and EEPROMs as a way to reduce cost, size, and I guess reliability.

My initial question did give the wrong impression about whether basic logic gates are going obsolete. Many designs will need a single AND gate (just to use an example) rather than adding an entire MCU to handle a basic single function.

I was also unaware CPLDs aren't popular anymore. Many years ago I took a free day course sponsored by Xilinx as a way to get acquainted with FPGAs since the company I was at began using them in their designs. Around the same time I bought a CPLD and FPGA development board to tinker with (also was able to obtain a "copy" of Xilinx software). If I remember correctly, I played with the FPGA board mainly using the visual logic layout tool rather than learn VHDL. After getting an LED to light when I pushed a switch and getting the light to turn off when I pushed the switch (using an inverting buffer), I lost interest because I already knew digital logic gates, so working on more digital circuits wasn't necessarily an interest.

Either way, the part we agree with is that repairing electronics that have programmed based ICs isn't going to be easy. This forum is great for sharing information, but, if the chips are secured so the programs can't be extracted, even asking someone to extract the program from a working unit will be difficult.

Plus, in my opinion, if say an MCU is the culprit behind a failure, most likely it may be a common failure and the result will be a donor MCU from another unit will fail after time (whether the MCU itself is failing or something is causing it to get damaged).
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2024, 11:58:08 pm »
@bostonman
Let me give you an example (just a part) of one of my designs (see attachment).
It provides trigger signals for the main (mixed-signal) circuit.
It has to provide pulses with a +/-100 ns precision and response to inputs.
First there are two MMVs, which is an analog function, followed by a couple of counters, FFs, demultiplexer etc. In between gates to get it running.
It runs at around 1 MHz and consumes less than 2 mA current at a cost of perhaps $3 (I don't have the latest prices).

Aternative 1: programmable logic. And FPGA would be waaaay overkill, appropriate CPLDs consume over 100 mA (=new power supply = more costs). And how to make the precision MMVs?


Alternative 2: A microcontroller could do the job except it could never meet the 100 ns response rate needed.

If I had to do the design again today (it's around 10 years old), I'd do it exactly the same way.

Yes, standard logic is still needed, and a good way to go in many cases.
 
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Offline bostonmanTopic starter

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2024, 02:52:59 am »
Quote
If I had to do the design again today (it's around 10 years old), I'd do it exactly the same way.

That circuit looks great and reminds me of circuits at my old job.
 

Offline zilp

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2024, 06:15:04 am »
Let me give you an example (just a part) of one of my designs (see attachment).

Are you aware that all the text in that schematic is doubled? Once in "CAD font" and once in some helvetica look-alike. Makes things kinda hard to read ...

(Also, apparently, Libreoffice was involved in producing that PDF?! I use KiCad's print function to print to PDF and haven't seen such behavior before ...)
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2024, 12:30:20 pm »
Are you aware that all the text in that schematic is doubled? Once in "CAD font" and once in some helvetica look-alike. Makes things kinda hard to read ...
(Also, apparently, Libreoffice was involved in producing that PDF?! I use KiCad's print function to print to PDF and haven't seen such behavior before ...)

Ooops. Must have a problem with my PDF setup.
It's a page extracted from a multi-page project, and yes, I cut the page using LibreOffice. But not really an issue, it's not like it's going to be used by anyone, it's just an example.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2024, 01:28:19 pm »
It's whatever gets the job done best, where best is the most relevant combination of...

1. BOM cost (at the relevant volume)
2. Board area
3. Ease of manufacture (at the expected volume), including things like programming requirements
4. Cost of manufacture
5. Speed requirements
6. Power limitations
7. Overall product cost implications
8. All the other things I've forgotten!

... Best will vary from product to product. You can't make sweeping statements like micro is better than logic.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 01:31:17 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Doctorandus_P

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2024, 02:04:55 pm »
It's still "whatever fits the job best". The big PCB's full of TTL chips have not been made anymore after the '80-ies. There will still be a market for some "glue logic" in the foreseeable future. Especially for this there are the "single gate" logic chips.

It is also starting to become more common to see a bit of programmable logic inside of small microcontrollers for timing sensitive stuff that can't be done in software.
 

Offline zilp

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2024, 03:54:23 pm »
Ooops. Must have a problem with my PDF setup.
It's a page extracted from a multi-page project, and yes, I cut the page using LibreOffice. But not really an issue, it's not like it's going to be used by anyone, it's just an example.

Haha, IC. I guess pdfseparate (from poppler-utils) would probably be less likely to corrrupt document content ...
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2024, 10:52:14 pm »
CPLD/FPGAs could do it as well, but the problem is that their power consumption is horrendous. The lowest power CPLDs I've managed to find burn 100+ mA, where my standard logic will need less than 5 mA.

For glue logic you may want to look at https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/698/REN_SLG46826_ds_3v18_DST_20230226-3075827.pdf , inexpensive, low power, and easy to program, including in-circuit.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Are Logic Circuits Still Used or Micros
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2024, 11:26:39 pm »
For glue logic you may want to look at https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/698/REN_SLG46826_ds_3v18_DST_20230226-3075827.pdf , inexpensive, low power, and easy to program, including in-circuit.

Nice part. I like it.
But I wouldn't touch it with a 20-foot pole.

This has to do with the business model behind programmable devices:
They need a software infrastructure. And Renesas is not famous for that.

Looking at the "big two", Altera (Intel) and Xilinx (AMD) they are basically software sompanies.

I've seen too many semiconductor companies trying to make their own programmable stuff, and failing and obsoleting it, that I'll never fall into that trap again.
 


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