Author Topic: Backing up minidv/hdv tapes to digital help  (Read 863 times)

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Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Backing up minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« on: May 28, 2024, 05:16:25 pm »
I have a lot of mindiv tapes i want to back up digitally and i was wondering if any body has a method to do this. One of my cameras has HDMI output and i used a capture card to record from the camera to my laptop and that works. But obs which is the software i was using to record (its what i had installed already) doesn't have a lot of resolution and file formats options to save to. Does anybody here know either a better software to record with or a better method entirely to do this? Thanks.

Edit:I edited to fix typos because i wrote this on a phone
« Last Edit: May 30, 2024, 01:06:43 am by AndrewEp17 »
 

Offline aliarifat794

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2024, 06:26:05 pm »
Isn't there any option to adjust the settings?
 

Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2024, 06:39:26 pm »
Isn't there any option to adjust the settings?

There were options to change the resolution but i couldn't choose the framerate or file format. I might have been in the wrong part of the software but it's been a while since i used it so i have to check again.
 

Online coppice

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2024, 06:39:35 pm »
miniDV and DV cameras usually have a firewire output. That's the easiest way to transfer tapes to a computer. Even if you don't have a firewire port on an accessible computer, firewire cards are pretty cheap.
 

Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2024, 06:47:34 pm »
miniDV and DV cameras usually have a firewire output. That's the easiest way to transfer tapes to a computer. Even if you don't have a firewire port on an accessible computer, firewire cards are pretty cheap.

I think I've tried that with a pcie card in my computer but either i used the wrong software at the time or the card was faulty but i don't think i got it to work.

Do you know of any good firewire cards?
 

Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2024, 07:21:45 pm »
I remember the issue i had with the wire card now. It was a driver issue because nothing really uses firewire anymore so the drivers are old, what would happen is the camera would show up in obs and some other software (i forgot the name) but when selected, it wouldn't display any video feed and then the camera would disappear from the options in the software.

Wouldn't capturing video from HDMI output be the same as capturing firewire output? Or does firewire let you move the video as a file rather than recording a video feed?
 

Offline CaptDon

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2024, 02:36:48 am »
Please have a look at the freeware called Any Video Converter. I fought with dozens of video conversion programs. Everyone had some sort of weird problem, poor rendering quality, sound slipping sync, you name it. Any Video Converter works great and has an insane amount of options.
Collector and repairer of vintage and not so vintage electronic gadgets and test equipment. What's the difference between a pizza and a musician? A pizza can feed a family of four!! Classically trained guitarist. Sound engineer.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2024, 03:59:43 am »
I remember the issue i had with the wire card now. It was a driver issue because nothing really uses firewire anymore so the drivers are old, what would happen is the camera would show up in obs and some other software (i forgot the name) but when selected, it wouldn't display any video feed and then the camera would disappear from the options in the software.

Wouldn't capturing video from HDMI output be the same as capturing firewire output? Or does firewire let you move the video as a file rather than recording a video feed?

I have not done this in a several years now but have a firewire card installed.  It seems like Windows 10 just saw the camera without any problem.  It can download the file directly off the camera. 
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The card I have is a Sonnet Tango 3.0 PCIe.   It has both USB 3.0 and Firewire ports.  I used to have a Firewire hard drive that worked with it as well.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 04:03:33 am by joeqsmith »
 

Offline darkspr1te

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2024, 09:34:54 am »
A possible solution and something i have done often myself is use a live media linux that still support the firewire card, Ubuntu studio should work and even has built in collection of media manipulation tools (obs, vlc , audacity etc )


so long as you select live disk it will not affect your windows install and you can access your windows drives too while in linux.
it's not a solution for all as linux can be a barrel of laughs one minute and hair pulling the next when it comes to compatibility. But if it's a common chipset it should work right out the box and you will see the firewire camera as a drive you can browse , at least thats how i do my old sony hd camera.


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Offline tooki

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2024, 09:08:52 pm »
I have a lot of mindv tapes i want to back up digitally and i was wondering if any body has a method to do this. One of my cameras has HDMI output and i used a capture card to record from the camera to my laptop and that works. But obs which is the software i was using to record (its what i had imstalled already) doesn't have a lot of resolution and file formats options to save to. Does anybody here know either a better software to record with or a better method entirely to do this? Thanks.
Honestly, the very best way is FireWire, since that lets you capture the data off the tape bit-for-bit, which not only preserves quality, but also may use less space. There are many YouTube videos showing how to capture this on Windows.

Instead of buying a FireWire card for a PC, you can also consider buying some ancient Mac with native FireWire ports. The included software (both iMovie and QuickTime Player) let you capture the video to disk.
 

Online wasedadoc

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2024, 10:39:31 pm »
Honestly, the very best way is FireWire, since that lets you capture the data off the tape bit-for-bit, which not only preserves quality, but also may use less space.
Standard Definition (ie 625/50 or 525/60) consumer DV that comes out on a Firewire port is close to 25Mbit/s net.  (Only difference between miniDV and DV is the physical size of the cassette.)

More, including info on professional versions, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV_(video_format)
 

Offline Whales

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2024, 11:08:06 pm »
Isn't there any option to adjust the settings?

There were options to change the resolution but i couldn't choose the framerate or file format. I might have been in the wrong part of the software but it's been a while since i used it so i have to check again.

Yes those settings are in there.  OBS is extremely flexible and will let you do almost anything ffmpeg can do (which is a lot), but it's settings UI is annoyingly split up into "streaming", "recording", "output" (and "scene" in the main UI).

I would not reccomend using video out + realtime capture (like in OBS) unless you are absolutely forced to do it.  It's slow (1x playspeed), lossy and introduces timing/frame-glitches (doubled frames & skipped frames).

DV is actually a digital format, so it would be better to get the raw digital bits off the tapes (eg via firewire) as other people suggest.  This might be faster than realtime and will not introduce any timing glitches.



Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2024, 11:13:04 pm »
for theses  i used  fire-wire interfaces and Sony Vegas at the time

total control of the "vcr's"  and  Quality output, it can be found on some  cough rent cough sites
 

Online wasedadoc

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2024, 11:18:26 pm »
DV is actually a digital format, so it would be better to get the raw digital bits off the tapes (eg via firewire) as other people suggest.  This might be faster than realtime and will not introduce any timing glitches.
Neither faster nor slower than real time.
 
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2024, 11:27:08 pm »
in   RAW you'll get very big files,  but absolute quality and processing,  until you re-code / encode / compress into other formats

same goes for photos  ....
 

Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2024, 11:44:02 pm »
Ok thanks everyone. I am going to use firewire
I have a lot of mindv tapes i want to back up digitally and i was wondering if any body has a method to do this. One of my cameras has HDMI output and i used a capture card to record from the camera to my laptop and that works. But obs which is the software i was using to record (its what i had imstalled already) doesn't have a lot of resolution and file formats options to save to. Does anybody here know either a better software to record with or a better method entirely to do this? Thanks.
Honestly, the very best way is FireWire, since that lets you capture the data off the tape bit-for-bit, which not only preserves quality, but also may use less space. There are many YouTube videos showing how to capture this on Windows.

Instead of buying a FireWire card for a PC, you can also consider buying some ancient Mac with native FireWire ports. The included software (both iMovie and QuickTime Player) let you capture the video to disk.

My dad and I actually got an old mac and tried that but we had problems with the software on it or something at the time so we sent it back

I think it would be easier (and cheaper) to use a pcie card and linux like Darkspr1te said because i have some experience with Linux. I think it should work as long as the software and drivers are on ubuntu studio like he said. Or should i try a mac again?
 

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2024, 12:25:58 am »
My dad and I actually got an old mac and tried that but we had problems with the software on it or something at the time so we sent it back

I think it would be easier (and cheaper) to use a pcie card and linux like Darkspr1te said because i have some experience with Linux. I think it should work as long as the software and drivers are on ubuntu studio like he said. Or should i try a mac again?
Since hardware, config, and software are apparently all "too hard" for you. Hand it over to an archival service, plenty of places offering blah format to blah format conversion if you deliver the original media to them.
 

Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2024, 12:43:12 am »
My dad and I actually got an old mac and tried that but we had problems with the software on it or something at the time so we sent it back

I think it would be easier (and cheaper) to use a pcie card and linux like Darkspr1te said because i have some experience with Linux. I think it should work as long as the software and drivers are on ubuntu studio like he said. Or should i try a mac again?
Since hardware, config, and software are apparently all "too hard" for you. Hand it over to an archival service, plenty of places offering blah format to blah format conversion if you deliver the original media to them.

I never said it was too hard for me. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do this with what i have and was hoping somebody here who has done this before could help me. I didn't make this post for somebody to basically say I'm too dumb to do it. Asking if there is better way to something doesn't imply the first way is "too hard" for me. And if I can do it myself I have no reason to take it somewhere unless its the last resort. But thanks for the advice
 

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2024, 01:03:52 am »
My dad and I actually got an old mac and tried that but we had problems with the software on it or something at the time so we sent it back

I think it would be easier (and cheaper) to use a pcie card and linux like Darkspr1te said because i have some experience with Linux. I think it should work as long as the software and drivers are on ubuntu studio like he said. Or should i try a mac again?
Since hardware, config, and software are apparently all "too hard" for you. Hand it over to an archival service, plenty of places offering blah format to blah format conversion if you deliver the original media to them.
I never said it was too hard for me. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do this with what i have and was hoping somebody here who has done this before could help me. I didn't make this post for somebody to basically say I'm too dumb to do it. Asking if there is better way to something doesn't imply the first way is "too hard" for me. And if I can do it myself I have no reason to take it somewhere unless its the last resort. But thanks for the advice
Well, you cant do it yourself as is plainly obvious from the above reply. Returning hardware because you cant figure out the software side.

It's trivially easy with a full set of period correct equipment (hardware software and devices) as I've completed that exact process without even needing to check any documentation. The camera probably came with a physical manual and software that was pitched at consumers (well explained and not difficult) which lays it all out.
 

Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Re: Backing up minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2024, 01:24:08 am »
My dad and I actually got an old mac and tried that but we had problems with the software on it or something at the time so we sent it back

I think it would be easier (and cheaper) to use a pcie card and linux like Darkspr1te said because i have some experience with Linux. I think it should work as long as the software and drivers are on ubuntu studio like he said. Or should i try a mac again?
Since hardware, config, and software are apparently all "too hard" for you. Hand it over to an archival service, plenty of places offering blah format to blah format conversion if you deliver the original media to them.
I never said it was too hard for me. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do this with what i have and was hoping somebody here who has done this before could help me. I didn't make this post for somebody to basically say I'm too dumb to do it. Asking if there is better way to something doesn't imply the first way is "too hard" for me. And if I can do it myself I have no reason to take it somewhere unless its the last resort. But thanks for the advice
Well, you cant do it yourself as is plainly obvious from the above reply. Returning hardware because you cant figure out the software side.

It's trivially easy with a full set of period correct equipment (hardware software and devices) as I've completed that exact process without even needing to check any documentation. The camera probably came with a physical manual and software that was pitched at consumers (well explained and not difficult) which lays it all out.


FYI: t wasn't me who returned it, it was my dad and it was also a long time ago so i don't remember the exact reason why it was returned. It could have been a faulty unit, and not software related. And like you said it is easy with equipment from that period, which i don't have. Not many computers use FireWire anymore. Also according to google FireWire was mostly not being used anymore by 2012 and i was 8 years old back then so this is not technology I'm used to using and by the time i got a camera everything used micro sd cards. You could help me by teaching me rather than just saying I'm not smart and telling me to let somebody else do it. How else am i supposed to learn if the only way is too just let somebody else do it?
 

Offline aeg

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Re: Backing up minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2024, 02:15:56 am »
The current FireWire stack on Linux has interoperability issues with video devices. You're likely to have a smoother experience with a Mac.
 
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Offline AndrewEp17Topic starter

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Re: Backing up minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2024, 02:20:03 am »
The current FireWire stack on Linux has interoperability issues with video devices. You're likely to have a smoother experience with a Mac.
Ok thanks for letting me know that. I will get another mac and try again.
 

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Re: Backing up minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2024, 02:20:21 am »
My dad and I actually got an old mac and tried that but we had problems with the software on it or something at the time so we sent it back

I think it would be easier (and cheaper) to use a pcie card and linux like Darkspr1te said because i have some experience with Linux. I think it should work as long as the software and drivers are on ubuntu studio like he said. Or should i try a mac again?
Since hardware, config, and software are apparently all "too hard" for you. Hand it over to an archival service, plenty of places offering blah format to blah format conversion if you deliver the original media to them.
I never said it was too hard for me. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do this with what i have and was hoping somebody here who has done this before could help me. I didn't make this post for somebody to basically say I'm too dumb to do it. Asking if there is better way to something doesn't imply the first way is "too hard" for me. And if I can do it myself I have no reason to take it somewhere unless its the last resort. But thanks for the advice
Well, you cant do it yourself as is plainly obvious from the above reply. Returning hardware because you cant figure out the software side.

It's trivially easy with a full set of period correct equipment (hardware software and devices) as I've completed that exact process without even needing to check any documentation. The camera probably came with a physical manual and software that was pitched at consumers (well explained and not difficult) which lays it all out.
FYI: t wasn't me who returned it, it was my dad and it was also a long time ago so i don't remember the exact reason why it was returned. It could have been a faulty unit, and not software related. And like you said it is easy with equipment from that period, which i don't have. Not many computers use FireWire anymore. Also according to google FireWire was mostly not being used anymore by 2012 and i was 8 years old back then so this is not technology I'm used to using and by the time i got a camera everything used micro sd cards. You could help me by teaching me rather than just saying I'm not smart and telling me to let somebody else do it. How else am i supposed to learn if the only way is too just let somebody else do it?
A quick Google came up with several people explaining their current (202x) workflows for this process. So you could check if their hardware/software setup is possible for you to replicate.

Instead you've asked a broad non-specific question about your non-specific situation.

The manufacturer of the camera almost certainly documented all this for you.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Backing app minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2024, 06:40:21 am »
Honestly, the very best way is FireWire, since that lets you capture the data off the tape bit-for-bit, which not only preserves quality, but also may use less space.
Standard Definition (ie 625/50 or 525/60) consumer DV that comes out on a Firewire port is close to 25Mbit/s net.  (Only difference between miniDV and DV is the physical size of the cassette.)

More, including info on professional versions, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV_(video_format)
Indeed! (I know. I used to be a professional Mac consultant in DV’s heyday and supported a number of video editors. :) I also took some video production classes in college, in which we used DVCPRO cameras — Panasonic’s pro version of DV. I still have a DVCPRO tape in my junk somewhere!)

Anyhow, what I was thinking when I wrote is that the DV stream may use less space than doing an HDMI capture. (Depends on the codec and resolution used of course.)

But above all, copying the DV stream to disk is ideal since it doesn’t involve transcoding, especially not a lossy format like h.264. For archival purposes, storing the source data is ideal. And of course DV was designed for editing, unlike codecs that use interframe compression (like h.264 and all the codecs used for streaming).
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Backing up minidv/hdv tapes to digital help
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2024, 06:47:40 am »
OP asked for thread lock.
 


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