Invention advice

[Gytis]

Hello EEVBLOG PEOPLE, and Mr. Crazy Aussie!

I'm brand spanking new to this forums, but I have watched probably over 100 episodes of Dave's EEVBLOG on youtube!
I love how the world can now be driven by the crowd with websites like kickstarter! Dave have obviously taken great advantage of this great company with his great device! Which is GREAT!

I am a college student (working on my BSEE followed by MSEE) Here in San Jose, California, and I think I have run into an issue that I have run into several times now, but I can't find a device anywhere that has a cure to my problem!! (I don't plan on spilling the problem until later because I would like to keep my idea confidential). I have thoughts of how it can be cured, and I'm planning to prototype this device by ordering the appropriate parts from digikey. I plan to make the PCB using my CNC Mill which basically drills away the unwanted copper from a copper clad board. Obviously this method would horribly fail if I have to make more than 3 boards (for example for a kickstarter)

I have never had a board made commercially, (except assisted in negotiating to have one made for the company I work for, which cost ~$25K).

I think my device would be extremely helpful to students like me, and prototypers everywhere!

Here are the few questions among the hundreds that are running through my head right now:
1) To those who have had commercial boards made: about how much was the total cost/board?
2) How easy is it to sell your idea on kickstarter? Do you have to sell anything, or can it be pure research?
3) Dave, or anyone administrating this forum: do you guys allow kickstarter campaign advertising here?
4) Being a busy college student, are there professionals that could work with me developing my idea, while keeping it confidential?
5) When do I patent, if ever? (Any advantages with staying open-source?)

Again HELLOOOO EEVBLOG FORUM!
And thank you everyone for your input!
-Gytis B.

[8086]

No offence to you personally, but I find that the ideas that people are most protective of are generally the worst ideas I've ever heard.

But on the subject, the price of a PCB depends on a lot of things. I get mine done in China and they generally cost between £0.50 and £3 per board depending on size.

Kickstarter is easy, as far as I'm aware. You can 'sell' whatever you like as long as you're honest about it.

Patents are for ideas that are SO good that someone will want to copy it. Try and get feedback from people in your target customer base group first to find out whether it's really a good idea or whether it just sounds good in your head.

[SL4P]

I agree with avoiding Patent Lawyers etc - but they can be useful once you have a solid income steam.

What you do need to consider is a Provisional Patent (less than A$100) - which in many ways is better than a full innovation patent for a single WIPO region! e.g. North America, Asia, Europe etc during your development phase.

It provides you with the date of first filing (DOFF) which is a big part of claiming prior art for all time into the future, and provides the same protection as a full innovation patent in all five WIPO regions for twelve months from the date of registration.

Once you have proof of DOFF, even after your PP has lapsed - others can't claim the innovation as theirs, as your 'prior art' has been registered at a point in time before theirs.  You can't block them making and selling a product unless you have a full patent/design registration, but they can't lock down or stop you building your invention either.

Other options are a Registered Design, and other instruments that are each different in the way they work, and what you can use them on.

[Corporate666]

Hello EEVBLOG PEOPLE, and Mr. Crazy Aussie!

I'm brand spanking new to this forums, but I have watched probably over 100 episodes of Dave's EEVBLOG on youtube!
I love how the world can now be driven by the crowd with websites like kickstarter! Dave have obviously taken great advantage of this great company with his great device! Which is GREAT!

I am a college student (working on my BSEE followed by MSEE) Here in San Jose, California, and I think I have run into an issue that I have run into several times now, but I can't find a device anywhere that has a cure to my problem!! (I don't plan on spilling the problem until later because I would like to keep my idea confidential). I have thoughts of how it can be cured, and I'm planning to prototype this device by ordering the appropriate parts from digikey. I plan to make the PCB using my CNC Mill which basically drills away the unwanted copper from a copper clad board. Obviously this method would horribly fail if I have to make more than 3 boards (for example for a kickstarter)

I have never had a board made commercially, (except assisted in negotiating to have one made for the company I work for, which cost ~$25K).

I think my device would be extremely helpful to students like me, and prototypers everywhere!

Here are the few questions among the hundreds that are running through my head right now:
1) To those who have had commercial boards made: about how much was the total cost/board?
2) How easy is it to sell your idea on kickstarter? Do you have to sell anything, or can it be pure research?
3) Dave, or anyone administrating this forum: do you guys allow kickstarter campaign advertising here?
4) Being a busy college student, are there professionals that could work with me developing my idea, while keeping it confidential?
5) When do I patent, if ever? (Any advantages with staying open-source?)

Again HELLOOOO EEVBLOG FORUM!
And thank you everyone for your input!
-Gytis B.

I've brought a couple dozen products to market over the years (it's pretty much what my company does)... I think the advice you have gotten here has been pretty good.  My answers are

1) Varies a lot depending on features.  You could probably budget for around $0.25 per square inch of PCB size, assuming nothing out of the ordinary (i.e. a 2-layer FR-4 board 1.6mm thick with a normal quantity of parts on it).  If you need things like thick gold plating, filled thermal vias, super fine pitch tracks/pads and such, the price goes up.

2) With KS you must deliver a tangible result, not just complete research.  Everyone wants to go on KS so they can sell a bunch of stuff - but that is a dangerous game.  You get a lot of orders, so you tool up.  You inevitably run way over on costs and when you finally deliver, you wound up making no profit, and you've had to tool up to support a level of sales that no longer exist.  Going on KS to make a product happen is good - but doing it as a sales tool is fraught with danger, unless you already have a plan to continue or exceed that sales volume after the KS project ends.  And if you have that plan, you likely don't need KS in the first place.

4) Tons of people do that for a living... I agree with 8086, most people who feel their ideas are amazing actually have really bad ideas.  Not saying yours is bad, just that most are.  But one think to keep in mind is that ideas are generally worthless - execution is what counts.  Any investor would pass over a great idea with a bad team executing on it in favor of an average idea with a great team executing on it.  That being said, if "work with a designer" means someone else will develop the idea and bring it to market, and your contribution is the idea, then keep in mind the average "royalty" to you for such a setup would be maybe 1-2%.

5) I somewhat disagree with the idea you should never patent.  I've done it both ways... if the idea is really marketable and profitable, then patent protection makes sense.  A solid patent will cost around $10k-20k depending on how much of the legwork you can do yourself.  Keep in mind a patent is only as good as your willingness to defend it.

[Jarrod Roberson]

to steal a quote from Fight Club:

“You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're all singing, all dancing crap of the world.”

Apply this to your "idea", does your "idea" pass this test?

Is it so special and unique and such an epiphany that no one else in the entire population of the world that is now and has come before hasn't thought if it? Probably not, and if they have, why hasn't it been executed on? "keeping it confidential" is the quickest way to waste your time and money on something that isn't very well thought out or feasible, most likely it is not a profitable idea but you will never know because you didn't get any feedback on it.

It isn't "ideas" that people buy, ideas are dime a dozen and free, even really good ones and they are limitless, it is implementations that people pay for, execution is what is valuable.

[Gytis]

Thank you guys for all the input! I really appreciate everything you guys had to say.
I will most likely write about my progress here on the EEVBLOG once I get moving on it.
I think I will keep the idea a secret for now until I am testing my own prototype.

[scientist]

Is it 3D printing the circuit design on a copperclad board, then treating it with acid to remove the exposed copper, and then dissolving the 3D printed plastic with acetone? That's my IP.