Poll

Which of these mean "transmitting/driven" pin? (up to 2 votes allowed, maybe)

|     PCB    -> o      |
12 (22.6%)
|     PCB    <- o      |
8 (15.1%)
|     PCB         o -> |
30 (56.6%)
|     PCB         o <- |
3 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Author Topic: Labelling of pins with arrows  (Read 2120 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rs20Topic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2320
  • Country: au
Labelling of pins with arrows
« on: October 23, 2019, 12:11:29 am »
Legend:
 |  is the edge of the board (to help illustrate which edge of the board we're on)
 o  is the pin header in question (0.1" or whatever)
 -> is the arrow label

You'd think that the meaning of an arrow on a PCB is obvious. Even I would've thought this was a dumb question a month ago. But I managed to confuse myself with a PCB that had the arrow drawn between the pins and the edge of the board, because I was suddenly unsure if the arrows were being drawn "inwards vs outwards" with respect to the pin (i.e., moving the arrow to the other side of the pin would require flipping it to stay points towards or away from the pin), or if the arrows were being drawn with respect to the board edge.

Does anyone with board layout experience have some rules of thumb to go by here? I personally feel like it would be reasonable to assert that arrows ideally shouldn't be between pins and the board edge, to absolutely avoid any possible ambiguity.


(And no, coppercone2, I like being inside ^-^)
 

Online HwAoRrDk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1524
  • Country: gb
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 08:25:14 am »
Forgive if this is a stupid question, but what are the arrows supposed to represent? Whether a pin is an input or output? Direction of current flow?

Logically, regardless of position of pin or label with respect to board edge or whatever else, I would expect that an arrow pointing away from a pin is an output/source, and an arrow pointing towards a pin is an input/sink.
 

Offline rs20Topic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2320
  • Country: au
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 09:14:09 am »
Forgive if this is a stupid question, but what are the arrows supposed to represent? Whether a pin is an input or output? Direction of current flow?

Not a stupid question at all! In the poll, I'm asking which drawing would represent an output pin. (That's what I meant by driven/transmitting, but the word output might have been clearer.)
 

Offline Ysjoelfir

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 542
  • Country: de
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 11:40:40 am »
I personally voted for o -> |, but the results of the poll show exactly my thoughts. On one hand I aggree with hWaoRr[...] that the arrow would point away from the corresponding pin, but on the other hand you could argue that an arrow pointing from the circuit to the pin ( meaning -> o | ) is showing that the singnal is "flowing" FROM the circuit TO the pin and from there OUT of the board. So I only voted for 0 -> |, as this is the way I do it and if there is no space available on the board, I just don't write arrows just to not confuse the user.
Greetings, Kai \ Ysjoelfir
 
The following users thanked this post: rs20

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14648
  • Country: fr
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 12:44:37 pm »
I don't see a difference between 1 and 3 really, so it's all a matter of style. 3 would look more common, but I don't think 1 would be ambiguous either.
 

Offline thinkfat

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2154
  • Country: de
  • This is just a hobby I spend too much time on.
    • Matthias' Hackerstübchen
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 01:14:19 pm »
It would very much depend on the context and the usage of said pins. But I'd say, if a board-to-board connector is involved, anything that points towards the nearest board edge is "output", anything that points towards the center of the PCB is "input".
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Online tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11805
  • Country: ch
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 01:37:38 pm »
I don't see a difference between 1 and 3 really, so it's all a matter of style. 3 would look more common, but I don't think 1 would be ambiguous either.
It would definitely be ambiguous, then, if you're saying you see 1 as an output. With the arrow pointing towards the pin, to me, it'd clearly be an input.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14648
  • Country: fr
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 01:45:23 pm »
I do not agree with that.
 

Offline Ysjoelfir

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 542
  • Country: de
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 01:55:57 pm »
I do not agree with that.

Don't worry. I do :) So what do we learn from that?
Greetings, Kai \ Ysjoelfir
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14648
  • Country: fr
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 02:07:06 pm »
I do not agree with that.

Don't worry. I do :) So what do we learn from that?

Something obvious: even though there seems to be some common convention, arrows can still be interpreted in different ways by different people, with a clear, but different, rationale.
Mine was not to stick to the pin itself, but consider the signal flow on the board.  Others will strictly think about the pin itself outside of its context (the board).

So in the end: just don't use arrows for this. Use IN and OUT (I and O if you don't have enough area left is also OK), and call it a day. Just my 2 cents.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki, Ysjoelfir, Jacon

Online tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11805
  • Country: ch
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 10:42:15 pm »
I do not agree with that.
... thus confirming what I said: it IS ambiguous!
 

Offline rs20Topic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2320
  • Country: au
Re: Labelling of pins with arrows
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2019, 01:37:12 am »
Thanks everyone for voting, I suspected the results would be mixed but I was surprised by exactly how the results fell. This will influence my future PCB design for sure. I put together a little infotard summarizing the results:



Just in case people wonder about inconsistencies:
  • Someone voted for both option 3 and option 4. Since that makes absolutely no sense, I considered that a non-vote.
  • And yeah, I'm conflating "arrangements you'd interpret as output" with "arrangements you'd consider acceptable". DW.
 
The following users thanked this post: Ysjoelfir


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf