Partner needed

[applebeam]

Hi guys,

I am not technical so need someone who would like to get involved with a great little project.

I would like you to design and build a small electrical device (explained later) which can be presented as a prototype to various people I know with mid to large scale manufacturing and marketing experience.

You would retain 10% share of the business for your involvement.

I will provide you with full details of the initial design proposal and do all the 'leg work' in building the business. All you would need to do it take the idea and build it.

If you think you have a good level of engineering for small gadgets, have a skill in simplifying a product, enjoy improving products etc .. then read on.

In order to give you an sense of the project (without giving away my idea) I will explain the type of thing I need in a nutshell.

Note: The actual device will have two unique additions (not mentioned below) which make it unique and unlike anything else on the market.

We'll be building a simple analog switch using something like a Force-sensing resistor to enable someone to switch on/off a set of small LED lights (or similar). The device would be put in someone's trainers and the lights will be on the outside of the trainers. This has been done lots before but as I said, I have a unique twist on this idea.

Important notes;

- I am based in Eastbourne so best it you are no further North than London
- You will need to sign an NDA before full idea explained
- I need someone who can finish a project and understands that design/build simplicity is key
- You will have an interest in keeping costs down. For example, perhaps a long FSA can be cut into shorter strips to reduce cost. The price of the final product is essential in determining it's viability as a business.

Let me know if interested guys! We'll chat and I will hopefully find the right person (or persons) to move forward with.

[Pack34]

You want to get someone to do all the work for a 10% stake?

[fivefish]

LOL

[cowana]

We'll be building a simple analog switch using something like a Force-sensing resistor to enable someone to switch on/off a set of small LED lights (or similar). The device would be put in someone's trainers and the lights will be on the outside of the trainers.

This sounds like a fairly sophisticated design - most likely a custom pressure pad, and impressively small integration to fit inside a trainer.

From a functional perspective, the circuitry is most likely trivial. The hard part is finding someone with enough experience of 'the other bits'. For the amount of time and design effort required for something like this, you will be very unlikely to find someone willing to work for a (very small) 10% share in a company that is currently worthless, in a very crowded market.

[tggzzz]

I am not technical...
...10% share of the business...
...All you would need to do it take the idea and build it.

Let me guess. You are an industrial designer, probably a student.

in any case, consider the reception you would get if you presented that in "Dragon's Den".

Hint: ideas are 10-a-penny; implementations aren't.

[nctnico]

Hi guys,

I am not technical so need someone who would like to get involved with a great little project.

I would like you to design and build a small electrical device (explained later) which can be presented as a prototype to various people I know with mid to large scale manufacturing and marketing experience.

You would retain 10% share of the business for your involvement.

I don't work for nothing anymore.  Learned my lesson years ago.  I'm certain that others here are thinking along the same lines.

Same here. Ideas are a dime a dozen! If there is no money for development then there is no money for any serious marketing so the project is doomed before it started!

[babysitter]

Haha, every electronics forum gets a visit from a guy exactly like you. Outcome: None at all.

Good luck with your Idea. I squashed yesterdays three of them. Which is a normal bi-weekly output rate at my workplace, but we only go for the excellent ones, maybe three in a year.

[rx8pilot]

I don't sign NDA's.

The person you need probably won't either. An offer like this will attract someone that is hoping to learn something new. The resulting learning curve will risk the entire effort.

10% is hilarious for spec work on a startup. I have started and sold a number of businesses, but have started and bombed more. What you are asking is for someone to work an unknown amount for NOTHING and if everything is absolutely perfect including many things that are not in their control, they may get 10%.

Good luck.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Mechatrommer]

here in our ghetto country, 10% is what someone get by doing nothing, just other people use his company account for doing business. the person who did the whole work get 90%. the OP business model is entirely reversed, what a modern world..

[zapta]

here in our ghetto country, 10% is what someone get by doing nothing, just other people use his company account for doing business. the person who did the whole work get 90%. the OP business model is entirely reversed, what a modern world..

It's also depends who is asking. For Steve Jobs I would do it for 7%.

[nctnico]

here in our ghetto country, 10% is what someone get by doing nothing, just other people use his company account for doing business. the person who did the whole work get 90%. the OP business model is entirely reversed, what a modern world..

It's also depends who is asking. For Steve Jobs I would do it for 7%.

I hope not because you'd be visited by a zombie!

[mrpackethead]

What an awfully negative bunch.

I'm not north of London, but i don't think you've thought about the South Boundary.

Do you have the required $20-30,000 Quid to protect this "invention" with a Patent. If in fact it is patentable.

[Howardlong]

My thoughts on NDAs between small businesses and individuals are that they're usually not worth the paper they're written on, and bring in an unnecessary element of distrust at a very early stage.

At the end of the day, the average small business or individual does not have the financial clout to afford to take up a legal IP case, nor would they gain financially from taking legal action anyway from another small business or individual. Sure it's a risk, but overall in the long run it's better to engage in cultivating mutual trust, pressing the flesh, and seeing the whites of your business partners' eyes than it is to mess about with a pre-nup. If something doesn't feel right in any relationship, trust your instincts and go elsewhere.

The same applies to patents too. For one man bands and small businesses, the cost of global patent can hit 6 figures before you've lifted the soldering iron or typed a line of code. Say someone on the other side of the planet pinches your idea, how much is it going to cost you to pursue it anyway? Do you honestly think that you have the financial resources to be successful in making a claim, and in that event be able to make good your losses?

[Tomorokoshi]

here in our ghetto country, 10% is what someone get by doing nothing, just other people use his company account for doing business. the person who did the whole work get 90%. the OP business model is entirely reversed, what a modern world..

It's also depends who is asking. For Steve Jobs I would do it for 7%.

I hope not because you'd be visited by a zombie!

Yeah, but that would look totally rad and awesome on a resume!

WORK EXPERIENCE
- Developed new electronic appliance for Zombie Steve Jobs. Electronic design, software design, and lots of running around.

[Seekonk]

Confused, isn't this how Steve Jobs started. Getting someone else to do the actual engineering.

The majority of OP's here are trying to get someone to do their engineering.  And they are quire successful at it!

[8086]

Wants a 'partner' to basically create the entire product...
...for 10% stake in unknown value business...
...and sign an NDA because the idea is obviously so great that everyone will immediately steal it...

Sounds like a typical clueless 'ideas man'...looking for a sucker 

(no offence to OP, really. I suspect they're just over excited and haven't engaged brain yet.)

Hint to OP, pay an engineer to design your product.

[rx8pilot]

My thoughts on NDAs between small businesses and individuals are that they're usually not worth the paper they're written on, and bring in an unnecessary element of distrust at a very early stage.

At the end of the day, the average small business or individual does not have the financial clout to afford to take up a legal IP case, nor would they gain financially from taking legal action anyway from another small business or individual. Sure it's a risk, but overall in the long run it's better to engage in cultivating mutual trust, pressing the flesh, and seeing the whites of your business partners' eyes than it is to mess about with a pre-nup. If something doesn't feel right in any relationship, trust your instincts and go elsewhere.

The same applies to patents too. For one man bands and small businesses, the cost of global patent can hit 6 figures before you've lifted the soldering iron or typed a line of code. Say someone on the other side of the planet pinches your idea, how much is it going to cost you to pursue it anyway? Do you honestly think that you have the financial resources to be successful in making a claim, and in that event be able to make good your losses?

+1

I avoid deals with NDA's for a couple of reasons:

1. (As you said) They are nearly worthless and bring distrust to a new relationship.
2. I make a living on my creative ideas - not the parts on the circuit board. I cannot accept creative hand-cuffs that could prevent me from implementing a new idea. NDA's are general in nature and some companies would be inclined to protect any and all information that is a derivative of the original idea or created from its pursuit. Even if the NDA cannot be enforced, the effort to enforce it can be crushing. I cannot have someone threaten me with legal action from the beginning.

I am the type of engineer that makes paper napkin ideas a reality and then moves on. My skills are wide and relatively shallow so I can get a reasonable product to market quickly. I never hoped to be the best of any discipline, but rather pretty good at many. This includes practical fabrication as well from CNC machining to molding to PCB's and software. This is what a startup needs, but the OP could not possibly make this interesting to pursue. In the end, most commercial products that I design need specialists to polish, test, and finalize but that is usually after a successful pilot program has proven the business viability.

I now own 100% of what I design. I was a freelancer at one time and worked on spec. I watched my employers rake in many $millions and I ended up with pennies. This is my own fault, but I learned how valuable my contribution is. The people that hired me didn't really know what they needed or how to get there. I figured out all the secrets and they are essentially a marketing company. Marketing definitely has value, but not 90%+ of the value.

[AndyC_772]

To the OP: I'm guessing you're not experienced in product design, so here's a bit of a clue as to what we're all thinking and why.

Ideas alone are worthless. Seriously. This is one of the hardest lessons to learn, it comes as a major surprise to a lot of people, and usually provokes a response along the lines of "surely not!" - but it's absolutely true.

Offering just 10% equity in your business says several things:

- that you can't afford to simply hire an engineer at a fair market rate, otherwise why wouldn't you?

- that the total, accumulated value of all the time, effort, expertise that the engineer is expected to invest, will be no more than 10% of the total value that you and other participants will invest. Even though the engineer will probably be bringing the majority of the technical expertise, and developing most of the value in any eventual IP that comes out of the project, nine times as much value is still going to be generated by other people. You'll need to be able to explain where all this value comes from, in a way which is exceptionally clear, detailed, and justified.

- the eventual value of your business will be such that 10% of it is likely to end up being worth enough to cover the engineer's time, at a fair market rate, times some reasonable multiplier to account for the risk involved. Otherwise the opportunity just isn't worth it.

Let's make up some figures. Suppose the design required is fairly simple, that your business wants to own the resulting IP, and that it amounts to no more than a few weeks' work for an engineer. You might, if you're very lucky and don't require anything in terms of ongoing support, need R&D work amounting to about £10k worth.

That immediately values your business at £100k.

Then suppose that this £100k valuation is justified by the company's ability to earn that amount in profits within 3 years, and that it does so by selling its product at a 20% margin. If you can make £33k/yr on 20%, then you need to turn over about £165k p.a. averaged over that period.

Feel free to substitute your own projections, of course, but they need to be realistic.

[nctnico]

A good test for an idea is to get some real investors to back it. If you can sell an idea to investors you may be able to sell it to customers. Once the investors are onboard it is time to find a engineer who can design the product using the investor's money.

[hamdi.tn]

here in our ghetto country, 10% is what someone get by doing nothing, just other people use his company account for doing business. the person who did the whole work get 90%. the OP business model is entirely reversed, what a modern world..

am not sure about that ... i know so many business where 10% is for the one who do almost everything.
am not saying it's fair, am saying it's how many real world company work

[hamdi.tn]

What ever it is that you are trying to do has already been thought of by at least a thousand people.  The reason that you don't see them for sale is that they either decided it was not viable [business wise], or they tried and failed to launch the product and/or company.

sorry but ppl still invent cause they don't think like that, kickstarter is full of crap but full of awesome ideas that had the courage to say it maybe thought by at least thousand people who thought it was not viable, but they did it.
example of product i think crap :
changing color led lighting ... crap
wireless lighting .. crap
fitness wearable stuff ... crap
every thing apple made ... crap

and am sure 1e5 think like me but those product are on the market and they are successful product

[Seekonk]

Once upon a time I worked for a small custom electronics company.  I sat across the table from a lot of these people.   If you design it and build it we will buy a lot of these from you.  They couldn't even come up with the money for the first 100.  A free engineer is the least of your problems.

[hamdi.tn]

to the OP what you asking for is impossible to accept by any thinking person ( if not a recently graduated student that will learn on the way), if you have such awesome idea ask investor for money as ppl here suggested, capital risk company will hep you with the money (if they think you really have an idea) and recrute some ppl. most capital risk company help you defining your idea as well, so you will have to explain it for someone at some point and by that you can really be sure that your idea is great. cause we all had that idea at which we said "eureka" and it's just unrealistic.
asking for NDA from someone you consider PARTNER is not the way to start at all. and am sure your idea how great it is, will be copied by countless company around the world ... and an other countless company in china 

[EEVblog]

I don't work for nothing anymore.  Learned my lesson years ago.  I'm certain that others here are thinking along the same lines.

Ditto.

What ever it is that you are trying to do has already been thought of by at least a thousand people.  The reason that you don't see them for sale is that they either decided it was not viable [business wise], or they tried and failed to launch the product and/or company.

Or already done in some way which the person simply doesn't have the skill enough to Google.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been approached by people with some great idea they want me to build for them. Almost always I'm able to show that:
a) It's already been done
or
b) Is not viable because of *insert problem here* that they didn't think of.

[hamdi.tn]

Or already done in some way which the person simply doesn't have the skill enough to Google.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been approached by people with some great idea they want me to build for them. Almost always I'm able to show that:
a) It's already been done
or
b) Is not viable because of *insert problem here* that they didn't think of.

True most of time, wrong sometime. am sure most innovation (not invention) are done in a context where everyone think that's the most that can be done.
Most engineers around me think about something to innovate most of time, and all the time they are within (a) and (b) as you said, this can change one day.