Author Topic: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply  (Read 12410 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline gumbygabeTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: us
 :-\Hey guys,

So I'm having trouble powering this load cell (http://meas-spec.com/product/t_product.aspx?id=2428) using this power supply(http://www.acopian.com/store/productdetail.aspx?q=i1866). The load cell had a 15V excitation level, which the power supply is rated to supply.

My biggest problem is I don't know how to power the the power supply. I was thinking of buying a wall wart, splitting the ends and then putting the leads into their designated pins on the power supply. Would this work?
                                                                                                                                       L  N
I also don't understand what each symbol represents on the barrier strip [+V +S COM -S -V AC AC GND ].

The load cell has 4 leads. 2 of which are connected to a DAQ (to measure/record data) but I don't know which pins to connect the other 2 to on the power supply. The equipment is really expensive and I don't want to risk damaging anything by putting it in the wrong place.

Any advice would be appreciated and if you could recommend a source where I can teach myself that would be great.

Thanks!
-GG
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 03:52:15 pm by gumbygabe »
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 32025
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2016, 03:37:06 am »
Welcome to the forum.

Most of what you need to know is in the datasheet linked within the page you linked:
http://meas-spec.com/downloads/ELHS.pdf

There's a schematic of the part with lead designations and colour codes.

Not being nasty but how did you not see this?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6119
  • Country: us
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2016, 03:40:41 am »
I suggest a bit of web research, just so you feel confident before you risk your hard earned dollars. 

In the meantime, the power supply you bought suggests that it will accept 230 VAC input.  If that is your mains voltage you can connect this to the two lines marked AC.  A wall wart would give some isolation, but is not really necessary.  Again, some web research about safety with mains lines, etc. would give you and us more peace of mind.

You would typically want to power your load cell with the +V and GND line.  Those characters, not surprisingly indicate the positive output voltage of the supply and the ground.  The documentation of your load cell shos which two lines are powered (+V to red, GND to black).  The other two are the output, and nominally, with no force applied to the load cell, will each have half of the supply voltage on them.  When force is applied, one of these voltages will go down, the other up.  By a few millivolts.  Since the change is so small the outputs are usually put into a differential amplifier before trying to read them with any kind of meter or A/D converter.

the +S and - S lines are sense lines, used to compensate for the resistance in the power supply lines when high current is supplied.  When this feature is used a second wire is run from the appropriate sense line to the point of load.  The supply the regulates the voltage at the load, not at the supply output. 

In your application the resistive drop in your wires is not likely to matter, so you can just connect the +S line directly to the +V line and the -S line to the -V line.  Connect the -S line even though you don't intend to use the negative output.  It usually doesn't matter, but in some supplies leaving this open can lead to oscillations.   

That should cover basic hookup.  Due to the small signals involved you will have to take care to avoid noise and other problems.   Again, some web research will help when you run into problems.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6119
  • Country: us
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2016, 03:48:14 am »
I will agree with Tautech and suggest that most vendors do provide good instructions.  If you go to the Acopian link you will find an instructions for use page which says what I said in a different format.  If terms like sensing leads make no sense to you, a little time with google will work wonders.   
 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2016, 05:13:54 am »
Maybe I am missing something (probably) but seems your powering something with a $300 power supply that could be powered by a few batteries or a $20 laptop PS ??

I bet if you called them, they could suggest a $25 ps.  If not ask if 19v is too high (Dell laptop ps)
My suggestion get some AA holders and use AA batteries  1.5v   x  X  = 15   so 10 batteries
or some 18650 batteries

Just curious - how much and what are you weighing?   How much are they, I do not see a cost.
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline gumbygabeTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: us
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2016, 05:46:48 am »
I'd like to address some of the concerns and point out that I'm not completely familiar with most of the terminology in the data sheets/ instructions that came with the products. The equipment is relatively expensive and I can't afford to damage them so I want to be 100% of what I'm doing before proceeding.

The load cell is measuring the pulling force on a handle during ergometric rowing, and has a capacity of 5000N (1124 lbs)

@tautech: I am not comfortable yet with the data sheet and was looking for very basic help in setting this up correctly.
@CatalinaWOW: I'm located in the US and our outlets are outfitted with 120VAC. Are there devices to connect my mains to the ps, or  could I buy any extension cord, cut the cord, split it, and put their two lines into the pins marked AC? I'm looking into the most basic way to do this, but am having trouble finding a tutorial of some sort. Thanks by the way for the very helpful advice.
@ez24: The load cell was about $1000 and the PS $300. I don't think AA batteries would be reliable for our system, not to mention that our trials for experiments could be going on for hours at a time.

Thank you for the advice everyone. I'm pretty much a noob at setting up all of the electrical hardware, but have taken classes on electrical systems before. The transition is not easy, but I'm willing to learn. If anyone has specific resources you think I should check out please link them here. I'll try to update this thread as I go along with my process.

-GG
 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 06:44:30 am »
The load cell was about $1000 and the PS $300.

Holy cow

$1000 load cell and a $300 1 amp 15v ps.    Too rich for my blood
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline Brutte

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 614
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 07:10:30 am »
Indeed, 1k$ load cell.
Do not experiment with that or get a 10$ version for practicing purposes.
 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2016, 07:14:57 am »
Indeed, 1k$ load cell.
Do not experiment with that or get a 10$ version for practicing purposes.

I agree $10 plus $10 worth of batteries
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2016, 07:15:42 am »
The load cell was about $1000 and the PS $300.

Holy cow

$1000 load cell and a $300 1 amp 15v ps.    Too rich for my blood

Way too rich for me now as well

I have played with load cells in this price bracket before though and they worked well enough with an off the shelf £20 linear supply, a 'classic' four op-amp instrumentation amp built around a pretty much jellybean quad package (I think it was an LT part) and a fairly cheap voltage reference (I think an LM336BZ2.5

But...

These days, if I were looking to integrate a load cell into a test setup and had that sort of cash to spend I'd definitely be considering a digital solution, there are even load cells which are the full package and USB output, cuts out all the pitfalls of the analogue that newbies (I was at the time very new to load cells) can fall into.



 

Offline gumbygabeTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: us
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2016, 07:39:00 am »
Before everyone else thinks I'm some sort of a baller, I should note that I did not pay for the equipment. The money was provided through grants and I'm a researcher conducting experiments. My main objective of posting here was to get redirected to some sources so if any for this application, it would be much appreciated.

-GG
 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2016, 08:02:43 am »
To OP

I suggest you change the title of this topic to something like:

"How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply"

You may get more interest and therefore more answers.  There is always an expert here.

What I do not understand is why no wiring diagram (a real one) for the load cell.  Is there a doc missing?  I would call them and ask whats up.  Maybe you can connect the 15v  + and - to either pair of leads and read the voltages from the other pair.  Thats my guess.

What are you using to read this with?
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: Powering a load cell
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2016, 09:21:11 am »
Before everyone else thinks I'm some sort of a baller, I should note that I did not pay for the equipment. The money was provided through grants and I'm a researcher conducting experiments. My main objective of posting here was to get redirected to some sources so if any for this application, it would be much appreciated.

-GG

That's fair enough, to give you much more we would need to know which DAQ system you're using.

Basically though, you feed the load cell the constant voltage from the power supply on the red and black excitation wires then with no load you should have near as damnit zero output across the other two wires, if it's not you 'null' that out either in your electronics or in software.

To measure the load you connect the output +/- wires to your DAQ system or a differential amplifier and then your DAQ.

As you increase the load on the cell the voltage difference across the two measurement wires increases, it's proportional to the applied load and should be linear.

Depending on your DAQ system you may need to amplify the cell output, relative to the input voltage, it's tiny, full scale output is only a fifth of a volt.

Polarity on the load cell shouldn't matter, it's only marked so you know what polarity to expect on the output for an applied load in any particular axis, if polarity is wrong (E.G. decreasing voltage for increasing load) you can just reverse the wires on the excitation input or the signal output.

 

Offline gumbygabeTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: us
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2016, 04:01:04 pm »
All,

I've updated the title as one has suggested. Hopefully, it will catch more attention. This is the DAQ we are using (http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-1608G-Series.aspx).

@ez24: The only doc that came with the load cell was its technical data sheet, but it doesn't have any diagrams on it. I've contacted the company but they do not provide any help with setup.
@CJay: Thank you for the general overview. I'll need to look into whether or not a differential op amplifier is necessary. We have one in the lab but it's being using in another system and I don't want to disassemble their setup.

I'm currently researching if a op amp will be necessary, and also how to connect the ps to the outlet. I appreciate all the feedback.

-GG
 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2016, 06:32:22 pm »

Edit - Deleted mistakes   :palm: :palm: :palm:

« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 08:28:11 pm by ez24 »
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Online PA0PBZ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5513
  • Country: nl
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2016, 06:47:46 pm »
I wonder why you are using a DAC.

a DAC is not a DAQ, just saying...
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2016, 07:12:23 pm »
All,

I've updated the title as one has suggested. Hopefully, it will catch more attention. This is the DAQ we are using (http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-1608G-Series.aspx).


The DAQ can be configured to work as a differential input with max inputs of +/- 1V, it's a 16 bit system so it *may* be OK without an amplifier but you're far better off if you can amplify the load cell signal up to somewhere near the max input level, that way you get the full range of measurement and will be able to see finer detail.

I have no idea what sort of 'pull' a rower can produce so, was the load cell you've chosen, was it chosen to match the expected 'pull' of the rower?
 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2016, 08:33:59 pm »
I have no idea what sort of 'pull' a rower can produce so, was the load cell you've chosen, was it chosen to match the expected 'pull' of the rower?

From OP

Quote
The load cell is measuring the pulling force on a handle during ergometric rowing, and has a capacity of 5000N (1124 lbs)

I assume somewhere along the handle where the leverage force gets to 1124 lbs  (whew !)  Who would have guessed this.

The OP's cell does not have a long plunger so I wonder how he is going to connect it.
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline CJay

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4136
  • Country: gb
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2016, 09:04:01 pm »
I have no idea what sort of 'pull' a rower can produce so, was the load cell you've chosen, was it chosen to match the expected 'pull' of the rower?

From OP

Quote
The load cell is measuring the pulling force on a handle during ergometric rowing, and has a capacity of 5000N (1124 lbs)

I assume somewhere along the handle where the leverage force gets to 1124 lbs  (whew !)  Who would have guessed this.

The OP's cell does not have a long plunger so I wonder how he is going to connect it.

I read that as the capacity of the load cell, not the applied load.
 

Offline Maxlor

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 565
  • Country: ch
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2016, 09:28:34 pm »
First, you asked what the labels on the connectors of the power supply mean:

From right to left:
Earth - connect your earthing wire to that. The wire should be green and connect to the earth pin of your mains cable, and if you're using a metal case for everything, also be attached to the case so that the case is grounded.
N AC - mains neutral, should be connected to the gray or white wire of your mains cable
L AC - mains live, should be connected to the black or red wire of your mains cable.
-V - -15V output. If you have no other electronics besides what you mentioned, you can leave it unconnected.
-S - sense wire for the -15V. This must be connected to -V somewhere, the easiest way is right at the power supply (it has a small metal plate for this purpose.) For more precise power regulation, run a separate wire and connect it to -V as close to your load as possible.
COM - Ground, connect this to black wire of your load cell.
+S - Same as -S explained above, but for +V. It's ok to just use the metal plate and run a separate wire.
+V - +15V output. Connect this to the red wire of your load cell.

You mentioned that you considered buying a wallwart and stripping it to power your power supply. This implies to me that you haven't realized that this power supply is supposed to be powered directly by mains. Connect it to the AC wall socket by a simple 3-wire cable (which connects to earth, N AC and L AC as outlined above.) If you don't have one, you can make do with buying an extension cord and cutting the socket end off, then stripping the insulation off the wires so you can insert them into your power supply sockets. Do think about what you're doing in this instance, as you have exposed metal contacts here with mains voltage on them. Absolutely do unplug it at the wall if you do any work at all on the system.

And typically, a power supply like this would not be exposed but live inside some sort of box with the rest of your electronics, and you'd use an AC entry socket, something like this: http://www.newark.com/bulgin/bzv01-z0000-01/connector-power-entry-inlet-plug/dp/06WX9357 . I do recommend you use something like this, since it has a nice switch, a fuse, and prevents you from touching any live parts.

Next, the load cell. There is a diagram explaining the wire colors and functions in this datasheet here, page 3 at the bottom: http://meas-spec.com/downloads/ELHS.pdf . The load cell is a fairly simple device electrically, and you will not damage it even if you hook it up wrong, as long as you only have 15V in play. The one you picked has no overload (as in physical force, not electric power) protection though and very little margin (1.5x overrange, so 7500N is the limit over which damage may occur), so be careful in the construction of your apparatus. If you do overload it, the damage might not be immediately obvious, but it will no longer be accurate.

In the load cell datasheet linked above, it also tells you what your DAQ needs to be able to handle: on page 2 there's a table that says the FSO (Full Scale Output) for your load cell is 200mV with a 15V supply. So if you apply 5000N, you get 200mV between the green and white wires., and they'll still be roughly at 7.5V above COM. It's also roughly 0.5% accurate, so if that's the accuracy you're going for, you need to be able to resolve 1mV. If your DAQs differential inputs that don't mind the 7.5V, 16bits resolution at its +-1V scale are easily enough, in fact you need just 11 bits. If you can't use the differential input, and use two single ended inputs with the +-10V range instead, you'd then need 15 bits of resolution, out of the 16 you have available. Your DAQ is pretty nice, so it should be able to just about handle that.

Btw, if you have temperature changes for some reason, more than about 5°C compared to the temperature you calibrated the system at, you need to think about measuring it and compensating for it. But that can always be added later.
 
The following users thanked this post: CJay

Offline gumbygabeTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: us
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2016, 07:21:44 pm »
Hey everyone,

So I was able to strip a power outlet and hooked it up the ps. Acopian was able to help out with that.

@ez24 - 5000N is not the applied load as CJay pointed out.
@CJay: I need to do a lot more research on what amplifier to get and more importantly why we need it in the first place. As the name suggests, I'm assuming the voltages are so tiny that the measurements we get will be too small to read.
@Marlor: This is great help and practically a cheatsheet to setting my system up. I really appreciate the time you put into this. Thank you!!


« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 07:34:02 pm by gumbygabe »
 

Offline mjkuwp

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Country: us
  • mechanical engineering defector
    • The Mz Lab
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2016, 04:04:54 pm »

The DAQ can be configured to work as a differential input with max inputs of +/- 1V, it's a 16 bit system so it *may* be OK without an amplifier but you're far better off if you can amplify the load cell signal up to somewhere near the max input level, that way you get the full range of measurement and will be able to see finer detail.

I have no idea what sort of 'pull' a rower can produce so, was the load cell you've chosen, was it chosen to match the expected 'pull' of the rower?

Those are important points.  my thoughts,

The load range of the load cell seems quite high if you are just considering one person rowing.  Unless that load cell is something really special you could have problems getting sufficient signal strength. 

On the other hand, the load cell is described as piezoresistive (as opposed to resistive) so this is not your typical load cell and maybe it is a bit special : )

I'd guess your load cell's measurement range could be about 1/2 or 1/4 of your present range unless you are doing the whole boat? 

What do you want the data to go into?  are you going into labview? or more simply a data file for excel?  a microcontroller?

 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2016, 09:58:34 pm »
Just for curiosity, what's your research purpose?
My guess - Olympics
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 

Offline engineer_in_shorts

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Country: gb
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2016, 10:21:47 pm »
Return the items and spend the money on a local guy who knows a bit about electronics, and a some computer knowledge would be helpful too.
 

Offline ez24

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3082
  • Country: us
  • L.D.A.
Re: How to connect a $1000 load cell to a $300 15v 1 amp power supply
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2016, 10:28:39 pm »
Return the items

I think research money is non refundable by design. 
YouTube and Website Electronic Resources ------>  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/a/msg1341166/#msg1341166
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf

 

- - -
-->